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General Discussions => Brewery => Topic started by: JohnRoberts on April 17, 2020, 01:48:21 PM

Title: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 17, 2020, 01:48:21 PM
I do not have much hope for this working, but invite all the passionate, angry, inflamed, forum members to post whatever  is bothering them at the moment, here instead of threads about other topics..

I will not attempt to be the apologist for every partisan slight real and imagined, but may as time allows try to illuminate some issues that seem poorly founded or unsupported by fact. 

No I will not cite any examples.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: squarewave on April 17, 2020, 02:01:39 PM
Honestly JR you are the one who keeps bringing up politics all the time. People wouldn't say half the stuff they do if you didn't keep posting stuff like this.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on April 17, 2020, 03:50:57 PM
try to illuminate some issues that seem poorly founded or unsupported by fact. 

JR
Then I hope you have some insight into reality that the rest of us aren't privy to. Facts don't seem to exist any more - only spin.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 17, 2020, 04:30:24 PM
Honestly JR you are the one who keeps bringing up politics all the time. People wouldn't say half the stuff they do if you didn't keep posting stuff like this.
Some more of my sloppy thinking I guess....  I see a difference between talking "about" politics (the game) and talking politics (the plays within the game).  I see a lot of talking politics and not much talking about the game in play.

I will repeat the old joke, if you don't know who the patsy is in your poker game, you may be the patsy...  The practice of politics is all about manufacturing sentiment taking advantage of human cognition that is not very thorough or always rational.

I am trying to point out that the political opinion leaders have no clothes on, instead I get accused of being a political spinner.  I guess I should have expected this..... 

never mind.  :o

JR

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 17, 2020, 04:41:08 PM
Then I hope you have some insight into reality that the rest of us aren't privy to. Facts don't seem to exist any more - only spin.
I will have to decline going down that particular philosophical rabbit hole (what is truth?).  There are many objective facts often glossed over when attempting to manipulate sentiment.

I have read several books over the last 6 months about persuasion and how humans make decisions.. Humans are all too easily mislead and jump to conclusions without rigorous thorough inspection.

We are months away from a presidential election so there is weapons grade manipulation going on.  I miss the good old days when partisan politics did not corrupt every single topic (like viral infections), but that is life these days.

Good Luck... especially if playing poker.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on April 17, 2020, 09:08:47 PM
Why does the discussion always have to be so metaphysical?

Let's start with some specifics of what the GOP supports:

1) Does anyone think Justin Walker is an appropriate pick to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit? Why?
2) Does anyone agree with the blocking of  Merrick Garland?
3) Does anyone agree with the blocking of Obama court appointments (fewest total nominations since 1969)?
4) Does anyone agree with  GOP political gerrymandering?  Of the top 10 gerrymandered states, 9 are GOP controlled.

The issue isn't related to 'a pox on both their houses'.  Both the Democrats and the GOP are both guilty of various offenses:  the issue is that yes, theft and murder are both crimes, but they aren't equivalent crimes.

Can any of these topics be discussed without resorting to whataboutism?  Does anyone who voted for (or is planning on voting for) Trump explain why they support these actions?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 18, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
Why does the discussion always have to be so metaphysical?
Why ask why?  ;)
Quote
Let's start with some specifics of what the GOP supports:
The list is longer than that
Quote
1) Does anyone think Justin Walker is an appropriate pick to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit? Why?
Don't know who that is...
Quote
2) Does anyone agree with the blocking of  Merrick Garland?
In fact I argued for approving Garland (in this forum at the time). My thoughts back then was that Garland would be more moderate than who President Hillary would likely appoint (recall that I expected her to win).
Quote
3) Does anyone agree with the blocking of Obama court appointments (fewest total nominations since 1969)?
I just saw a constitutional argument (editorial) that says President Trump could recess congress himself and make recess appointments for all the positions still blocked after 3+ years. Despite the vast majority of swamp dwellers sheltering in some other place they are pretending to be in session to prevent recess appointments. (Note: recess appointments can get overturned when congress is actually back in session again. John Bolton's appointment as UN ambassador is the poster boy for that).
Quote
4) Does anyone agree with  GOP political gerrymandering?  Of the top 10 gerrymandered states, 9 are GOP controlled.
Gerrymandering is at least two centuries old (at least the name is). It has been well inspected.
Quote
The issue isn't related to 'a pox on both their houses'.  Both the Democrats and the GOP are both guilty of various offenses:  the issue is that yes, theft and murder are both crimes, but they aren't equivalent crimes.

Can any of these topics be discussed without resorting to whataboutism?  Does anyone who voted for (or is planning on voting for) Trump explain why they support these actions?
It seems a little ironic to dismiss whataboutism, at the end of a list of whatabouts....    :-[

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 18, 2020, 12:33:38 PM
Perhaps I should have given an example. Here is new one, but it quickly morphs into the tired old standbys.

One new political hot button is converting fully to mail-in voting. The classic (rather old) team politics arguments conflate this with increased opportunity for voter fraud (harvesting votes), with opposition to the changes characterized as voter suppression. 

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on April 18, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
The example is sounding exactly like argument-switching for the same side; going against / going for, to fit a narrative, from one campaign to the next.

It’s amazing how many heads do that; they’re always fighting so fiercely with all their conviction too. It’s so effective, that’s why they do it. Whomever points out the flip-flopping is now on the attack list. That too is very effective and why they do it.

Why do we let them get away with it, effectively encouraging more of it?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on April 18, 2020, 08:56:23 PM
Don't know who that is...
You said previously that the judiciary was one of your most important considerations for voting for Trump.  He is being groomed for a future SC seat, should Trump win.

In fact I argued for approving Garland (in this forum at the time).
That's great, except that isn't what happened.  Do you agree with what happened?  Is all fair in love and war?

I just saw a constitutional argument (editorial) that says President Trump could recess congress himself and make recess appointments for all the positions still blocked after 3+ years. Despite the vast majority of swamp dwellers sheltering in some other place they are pretending to be in session to prevent recess appointments. (Note: recess appointments can get overturned when congress is actually back in session again. John Bolton's appointment as UN ambassador is the poster boy for that).
He can't recess Congress.

Do you or do you not agree with blocking the current President's appointments?

Gerrymandering is at least two centuries old (at least the name is). It has been well inspected.
I can't tell if you approve or disapprove of gerrymandering.  My question was:

Quote from: Matador
Does anyone who voted for (or is planning on voting for) Trump explain why they support these actions?
It seems a little ironic to dismiss whataboutism, at the end of a list of whatabouts....    :-[
My list absolutely was not a list of whatabouts.  Whataboutism is answering a question with a justification that someone has done the same thing before.  Since I was asking for a justification in the first place your statement makes no sense.

As for mail in voting:  the GOP continually brings up the warning of voter fraud, and in a particular bit of irony, one of the biggest voter fraud cases in recent memory was a GOP operative in North Carolina:

Quote
Prosecutors in North Carolina filed new felony charges against a Republican political operative accused of ballot tampering in a congressional election in 2018.

Leslie McCrae Dowless was charged Tuesday with two counts of felony obstruction of justice, perjury, solicitation to commit perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice and illegal possession of absentee ballots, according to a statement by Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman.
The SC decision in Shelby County v. Holder basically opened the door to more shenanigans (are we seeing a trend here?).

You don't have to believe me:

Quote from: Donald Trump
“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again,” Trump said during an appearance on Fox & Friends.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on April 19, 2020, 05:35:13 AM
The big problem I see is that logical rational thinking seems to go away when it's comes to politics.  It becomes team above principle for most of the mainstream choices.  How will anything ever change if people continue to elect Rs with no sense of limited government and fiscal responsibility and Ds with no regard for the working man or civill liberties?

It's an endless debate over which apple is less rotten.

Everyone would be better off electing principled politicians with high moral character,  even if you disagreed with some of their political positions.  Unfortunately they very rarely win.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 19, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
The big problem I see is that logical rational thinking seems to go away when it's comes to politics.  It becomes team above principle for most of the mainstream choices.  How will anything ever change if people continue to elect Rs with no sense of limited government and fiscal responsibility and Ds with no regard for the working man or civill liberties?

It's an endless debate over which apple is less rotten.

Everyone would be better off electing principled politicians with high moral character,  even if you disagreed with some of their political positions.  Unfortunately they very rarely win.
Yes, but finding that many principled politicians is all but impossible.  Our founders appreciated that and specifically engineered in checks and balances in our government to limit concentration of power.  In the centuries since, this has mostly worked, but the federal government has expanded beyond its original purpose, and seems hungry for even more control over the private sector.

I favor the approach of starving the beast to shrink the bureaucracy...  So far it seems republicans are spending almost as much as the democrats. I am glad that I'm old and will be gone when the bill for all this spending comes due.  If I was younger I would be more angry than I already am.  8)

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on April 19, 2020, 03:13:48 PM
The big problem I see is that logical rational thinking seems to go away when it's comes to politics.  It becomes team above principle for most of the mainstream choices.  How will anything ever change if people continue to elect Rs with no sense of limited government and fiscal responsibility and Ds with no regard for the working man or civill liberties?

It's an endless debate over which apple is less rotten.

Everyone would be better off electing principled politicians with high moral character,  even if you disagreed with some of their political positions.  Unfortunately they very rarely win.

A recent study about it came to the conclusion that it's the worst if you only have two parties. The more parties you have, the less chance of thinking bilateral...

This paper wasn't about politics only. The same is true for violence in sport. You'jj on;y see violence in sports with two sides. Not in athletics or bike/car racing fi, as there are way more than two sides to the problem.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: L´Andratté on April 19, 2020, 06:10:52 PM
very interesting. Is that paper online somewhere? 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on April 19, 2020, 06:46:00 PM
That is an interesting study. In the US there actually are more than 2 parties,  but what is the solution to actually get people to vote for them? I constantly hear "I don't want to throw my vote away". Ranked choice voting would help with this somewhat.

Government would also be better if it represented an  actual cross section of society.  Where are the scientists,  engineers,  teachers,  artists,  etc?  The wealth range of Congress is also nowhere close to society.  It's no wonder policies benefiting the wealthy are advanced above others.  Our "representatives" do not really represent the people at all.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on April 19, 2020, 07:12:01 PM
very interesting. Is that paper online somewhere?

Yes. But it's a hard one to find. It's been a while and it is no longer in this machine's browser history.

Came across another interesting one:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0062275

Draws a line between dictatorship and being infected with parasites  :o
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on April 28, 2020, 10:35:56 PM
I am relieved to see that the hyperbolic social justice #metoo movement has relaxed their guilty until proved innocent posture regarding sexual harassment.  ::)

JR

[edit- this morning I read the WSJ report about her claims and while it appears she formally complained about him inappropriately rubbing her neck and shoulders making her uncomfortable (she was pretty attractive back then), the sexual assault she now claims was not officially reported at the time as far as I can tell. 

This is yet another "he said-she said", while she has far more supporting evidence of discussing the attack with friends and relatives than the Kavanaugh accuser did. It is not unusual for a young woman to not formally report an assault at the time, many didn't (or so I read).

Revisiting it now seems more than a little opportunistic, but the obvious hypocrisy from how she is being treated by the left is instructive. Sound bites from Joe Biden's potential VP candidates from back during Kavanaugh hearings and now, seem dramatically different.

The American public is likely to be forgiving of whatever did or didn't happen decades ago. [/edit]

 [edit2- isn't saying something "never never happened" a double negative?  (humor)  [/edit]
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: kambo on April 29, 2020, 12:39:35 AM
A recent study about it came to the conclusion that it's the worst if you only have two parties. The more parties you have, the less chance of thinking bilateral...

This paper wasn't about politics only. The same is true for violence in sport. You'jj on;y see violence in sports with two sides. Not in athletics or bike/car racing fi, as there are way more than two sides to the problem.

there was a very old study very similar to it, i remember reading it at Ottoman Emire political history and modern Turkey's first political party, and why they introduced more political parties etc etc!
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on May 15, 2020, 11:59:23 AM
You guys missed an opportunity to cast shade on a republican political operative.  ::)

Apparently a republican campaign bundler, jumped into the PPE reselling business. This is a somewhat shady business since real established PPE makers only sell direct to health professionals, government, etc., and have established distributers, who follow similar guidelines. 

When the state of CA realized who he is they cancelled a $6M mask order, while it isn't clear that he could have sourced those masks. Instead CA placed their order with Chinese company BYD, an electric car maker that retooled to make PPE. (Warren Buffett owns shares in BYD.)

Apparently FDA failed to approve BYD's mask after a factory inspection that revealed a less that acceptable manufacturing operation.

I guess there will always be carpetbaggers trying to take advantage of government spending.

JR

PS I find it instructive that prices for large N95 orders like that, even from China are >$1 ea. Those masks can't cost more than tens of cents to mass produce. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on May 16, 2020, 09:41:42 PM
The case against Biden is getting weaker and weaker:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/15/tara-reade-left-trail-of-aggrieved-acquaintances-260771

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-74-former-biden-staffers-think-about-tara-reades-allegations
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: okgb on May 16, 2020, 10:22:27 PM
How about a link ,  that coverts people's names into gear model numbers and takes  the poster to
gear sluts or the gear page !
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on May 17, 2020, 12:13:39 AM
The case against Biden is getting weaker and weaker:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/15/tara-reade-left-trail-of-aggrieved-acquaintances-260771

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-74-former-biden-staffers-think-about-tara-reades-allegations
It was always a "he said/she said"... (say that fast three times.  ::) )

This not a big deal, a little embarrassing if anything as we reveal how provincial we are.

The observation I make is how differently such incidents are treated depending upon political party affiliation. 

I won't bore everybody with the obvious comparisons.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on May 18, 2020, 12:53:43 PM
It was always a "he said/she said"... (say that fast three times.  ::) )

This not a big deal, a little embarrassing if anything as we reveal how provincial we are.

The observation I make is how differently such incidents are treated depending upon political party affiliation. 

I won't bore everybody with the obvious comparisons.

JR

It looks like she's an outlier and not a reliable one.

As to how different these things are treated, look no further at Kavanaugh (who was credibly accused of a felony and some other stuff) sitting on the supreme court vs Al Franken (who apparanelty touched butt during at a photo op) resigning as a US Senator.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on May 18, 2020, 01:47:18 PM
It looks like she's an outlier and not a reliable one.
Joe Biden has a track record for making women (people?) uncomfortable with his overly handsy invasion of personal space. That does not translate directly into sexual assault, which is not his reputation.

It is impossible to be very credible decades later, especially if you didn't officially report the more serious sexual assault to authorities at the time.  Her motives are surely suspect in light of time passed and Joe Biden's current high profile, but her treatment is night and day different from Christine Blasey Ford's. 

I thought the #METOO movement was overdone and am glad to see it losing strength, while I hope that this not just a situational pause based on the different politics of the accused.
Quote
As to how different these things are treated, look no further at Kavanaugh (who was credibly accused of a felony and some other stuff) sitting on the supreme court
In fact Ford's accusations were far less credible than Tara Reade's, and multiple Kavanaugh accusers have admitted making up their sexual violation accusations. 

I would be happy to put both of these incidents into the historical dustbin of small ball dirty team politics, and say goodbye to #METOO movement also. The hundred's of high profile #METOO tweeters seem uncharacteristically silent now. 

 Put the obvious sexual predators away (like Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, and more.) Hollywood has been so perverse for so long that they invented the concept of the "casting couch" a century ago.
Quote
vs Al Franken (who apparanelty touched butt during at a photo op) resigning as a US Senator.
I have no sympathy for Al Franken (by the way there was photographic evidence of his immature behavior when he was immature.... duh). He wasn't even that funny on SNL, but he indeed was a victim of #METOO social justice overreach (that was them eating their own). This does not mean that sexual predators should get free license, but the guilty until proved innocent policies President Obama's education department instituted for colleges are being rolled back to reflect constitutional rights.
===

Times are changing and mostly for the better but the social justice warriors routinely over do it, this might be a good reality check for them, but even I can't get that optimistic.  ::)

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on May 18, 2020, 04:50:24 PM
I believe Creepy Joe has massaged many women's shoulders without being invited to do so. I started out beliveing Tara Reid but I'm not so sure now. Biden has had hundreds of interns and staffers over his long career. If he liked to diddle the underlings it wouldn't be an isolated incident. If more women come forward telling a similar story I'd believe it. If it's one woman I'm a little less likely to believe it.

In the case of Kavanaugh the puzzle pieces fit. A hard drinking, hard partying youth with many people corroborating shenanigans. Consistent from high school through college.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on May 18, 2020, 05:50:14 PM
Quote
with many people corroborating shenanigans.
.

Such friends.   Also CBF,s. Friend did not remember that incident at all.  So we have one person CBF’s he said she said.   Reall that was democrats doing what they do best.

Quote
As to how different these things are treated, look no further at Kavanaugh (who was credibly accused of a felony and some other stuff)

HAhaha.  Your kidding .  What ever fits the narrative. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on May 25, 2020, 09:11:38 AM
Tara Reade's credibility took another serious hit:

https://us.cnn.com/2020/05/22/politics/tara-reade-lawyer/index.html
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on June 03, 2020, 12:11:41 PM
This and the events leading up to it says it all. We got (and are getting) what we deserve.

(https://www.ncronline.org/sites/default/files/styles/article_full_width/public/20200602T0722-264-CNS-USA-PROTEST.jpg?itok=GnnbbQWM)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 03, 2020, 01:22:31 PM
another media rorschach test....

(https://cdnph.upi.com/pv/upi/2a5a51be01f4ab48c6a0f682bb64a37a/SPEAKER-PELOSI.jpg)

"made you look"  :o

JR

PS; My crazy idea du jour is to publish/stream all police body cam videos. We probably don't have enough bandwidth to do this in real time, but after the end of shift, body cam footage could be made public. Officers with questionable reputations could be monitored by any and all... There may be some obscure privacy issues but hopefully its mostly just boring. Virtually walking a mile in the police officer's shoes could be instructive.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on June 03, 2020, 06:21:07 PM
another media rorschach test....

You seem to be ignoring a rather important part. The removable of peaceful protesters by force should not be acceptable.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on June 03, 2020, 08:20:48 PM
You seem to be ignoring a rather important part. The removable of peaceful protesters by force should not be acceptable.
Exactly.

Panderer-in-chief.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on June 03, 2020, 09:28:29 PM
"Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children."

Mad Dog Mattis
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on June 03, 2020, 11:41:36 PM
When Pat Robertson feels the need to criticize the President over racial insensitivity you know something is very wrong.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 04, 2020, 09:57:00 AM
The recipe these days to recieve popular press or retweets is to criticize POTUS.

======

Where is the outrage over the police officers, and business owners injured and killed? (whatabout warning)

This is not a complete list;

(https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/david-dorn-ap-jef-200602_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg)  77yo David Dorn, retired PO killed by looters.

-Police officer was shot and critically wounded in Las Vegas monday night.
-In St Louis 4 officers were shot and wounded before mobs looted businesses.
-In NYC multiple officers were struck by cars (nearly 700 arrests monday night). A NYC police spokesman reported that one in seven of the arrested were from outside NY, supporting the claim of outside agitators.
-On Friday night, Dave Patrick Underwood, a Federal Protective Service contract officer, was shot and killed at the federal building in Oakland, California.

-Federal prosecutors in Brooklyn, New York, identified one of three protesters arrested on suspicion of tossing Molotov cocktails at NYPD vehicles as someone known to police across the county as a "professional agitator." Prosecutors, according to court records, say Samantha Shader has previously been arrested 11 times in 11 different states since 2011 for allegedly committing acts of violence and resisting arrest.

-Two other suspects charged in the firebombings of police vehicles, Colinford Mattis and Urooj Rahma, are licensed attorneys who have attended prestigious universities and law schools, according to court records. They, too, were charged with federal crimes of causing damage by fire and explosives to police vehicles, but have yet to enter a plea and remain in federal custody.

-The New York City Police Department said early Thursday three officers were attacked by the suspect in Brooklyn, who stabbed one of the policemen in the neck and then stole a handgun and shot two others before he himself was shot.

===========

A political argument made by the left is that police departments are systemically racist. I disagreed right here when President Obama publicly accused the Cambridge, MA police of being racist. President Obama had to walk that back and invited the police officer who clearly wasn't racist to drink a beer with him in the rose garden photo op.  Former President Obama recently popped up again to repeat his same old theme. This political trope is back with a vengence as groups are still upset over the 2016 election loss. As usual our external enemies take advantage of this discord to conceal their mischief and promote their agendas. China just passed a rule making it a crime to disrespect China in Hong Kong (watch what happens to protesters there after this law takes effect). Putin in Russia is working on a bill to extend his term to 2036, etc...

in 2016 Heather Mac Donald wrote a book "The war on cops" discrediting the false narrative of institutional, systemic police bias. She revisits many compelling statistics in a recent WSJ editorial.  https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883)   I won't bore you with all the contrary data.

The Officer who killed George Floyd will get prosecuted, and his fellow officers who should have stopped him, will get punished too. Rumors suggest there is more to this story, but I am still waiting to hear the rest of the story behind the tourist killed by police there a few years ago, so my optimism does no allow me to expect good answers about this one to come out any time soon. The national outrage over the white tourist killed by MN police was certainly not proportionate.

This false narrative of systemic police bias is clearly dangerous for the police who are increasingly being targeted for violence, but does anybody think we don't need the police to maintain order?

We have a constituionally protected right to protest, but not to loot and burn private property. There are bad actors pouring fuel on the racial discord trying to destabilize our republic, and disrupt the economy (businesses) that are already under stress from the pandemic. Anarchy and chaos will mainly harm the weakest among us reducing employment even further. Is this a desireable outcome (rhetorical)?

JR   

PS: Sadly public opinion is easily swayed by all this rhetoric. I see statement after statement making similar accusations without proof beyond this obvious and iconic Floyd incident. While systemic bias is unsuported by facts, it can get accepted as truth due to repetition without analysis. We do not have an objective media keeping them honest, while they bend over backwards to microanalyse POTUS' twitter feed bloviating (I still wish he was a drinker so we'd have an excuse for stupid tweets).   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on June 04, 2020, 10:58:34 AM
Quote
This false narrative of systemic police bias is clearly dangerous for the police who are increasingly being targeted for violence, but does anybody think we don't need the police to maintain order?

False narrative? You’ve got to be kidding. Do you think a white guy would have been murdered by police for passing a single counterfeit $20 bill?

Every black parent warns their kids about interactions with the police.  I didn’t get that speech and I doubt you did either.

Systemic racism doesn’t mean individuals are racist . It means the system is set up  that way.

The Kareem Abdul-Jabbar op ed had a very good analogy. Racism is like dust in the air.  It’s everywhere but you don’t see it until you shine a light on it.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 04, 2020, 01:09:51 PM
False narrative? You’ve got to be kidding. Do you think a white guy would have been murdered by police for passing a single counterfeit $20 bill?
Do you believe that is the whole story? That is however the popular narrative pushed by inflammatory media as he is tried in the press... and apparently declared guilty of "murder".

It is extremely unlikely that Floyd was killed over a counterfeit $20. I recall a case in NY over illegally selling single cigarettes where the arrest likewise turned lethal, and viral. 

The hyperbolic media is not reducing tension but inflaming it making more violence likely.
Quote
Every black parent warns their kids about interactions with the police.  I didn’t get that speech and I doubt you did either.
I am familiar with Mayor De Blasio famously throwing his own police officers under the bus. Unfortunately kids get lots of bad advice from parents, white and black. I see old school racism passed down that way by racist parents, but desegregation causes a lot of those prejudicial stereotypes to evaporate when exposed to real world face to face experience.

Parents who advise children to be fearful of police can cause they to run away when confronted by police, this will often lead to police chasing them to determine why they fled. Sometimes these unprovoked chases lead to complications.   Better advice is to be respectful of authority. 
Quote
Systemic racism doesn’t mean individuals are racist . It means the system is set up  that way.
Show me where the rules say that?

I have been a student of history since I was in junior high school. History is littered with centuries of disadvantaged minorities, denied opportunity or worse by chance of their birth, skin color, etc. The US constitution is a remarkable document promising to protect individual liberty. But even the US was not born perfect with several founders also being slave owners (fairly common back then, and still occuring in parts of the world today) . While an over simplification, the civil war pretty much began to unwind that blemish on our brief history. Entrenched culture like this does not change overnight and those of old enough, and not too stoned to remember the 60s, recall the civil rights drama back then. But this is a process that requires generational change, which takes generations to occur.     
Quote
The Kareem Abdul-Jabbar op ed had a very good analogy. Racism is like dust in the air.  It’s everywhere but you don’t see it until you shine a light on it.
That is a clever turn of phrase but not reality.  When I first relocated into the deep south over three decades ago I encountered some residal vestigages of a racist past.  One lunchtime back in the 80s I pulled into a small rural roadside barbecue stand. There were several older black people waiting in line. When I entered the stand, they stepped aside expecting me to jump the line. Of course I declined, but that was probably expected behavior with some. 

Lebron James is arguably one of the best basketball players in history, but I am not receptive to him telling another athlete that he "doesn't get it" for defending the US flag (that athlete had to apologize profusely afterwards to social media outrage to protect his brand.) I also recall Lebron saying that same exact thing to the Houston Rockets manager who criticized China for abusing Hong Kong protestors.  Of course Lebron is in the sweet spot of modern social culture, where it is OK to defend communist China but not defend the US flag.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on June 04, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
I like Will Smith's saying....

"Racism isn't getting worse....it's getting filmed...."
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on June 04, 2020, 02:22:23 PM
Do you believe that is the whole story? That is however the popular narrative pushed by inflammatory media as he is tried in the press... and apparently declared guilty of "murder".

I've seen the videos. Do you have something to add besides vague insinuations?

Quote
It is extremely unlikely that Floyd was killed over a counterfeit $20. I recall a case in NY over illegally selling single cigarettes where the arrest likewise turned lethal, and viral.

That's exactly what happened in the Eric Garner case. He was killed for selling a single cigarette. I see no evidence to the contrary about George Floyd. Once again there seems to be some vague insinuation.

 


Quote
Parents who advise children to be fearful of police can cause they to run away when confronted by police, this will often lead to police chasing them to determine why they fled. Sometimes these unprovoked chases lead to complications.   Better advice is to be respectful of authority.  Show me where the rules say that?

Now you are just talking out your ass. I guess it's an opinion.

Quote
Lebron James is arguably one of the best basketball players in history, but I am not receptive to him telling another athlete that he "doesn't get it" for defending the US flag (that athlete had to apologize profusely afterwards to social media outrage to protect his brand.) I also recall Lebron saying that same exact thing to the Houston Rockets manager who criticized China for abusing Hong Kong protestors.  Of course Lebron is in the sweet spot of modern social culture, where it is OK to defend communist China but not defend the US flag.

I think you are talking about taking a knee. That of course had nothing to do with disrespecting the flag but was a protest about police brutality. Sounds familiar.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on June 04, 2020, 04:17:47 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3pgcdi.jpg)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: kambo on June 04, 2020, 09:52:14 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3pgcdi.jpg)

AND I HAD TO KNOCK HIM OUT, WHEN HE MANAGED TO DO SO  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: kambo on June 04, 2020, 09:58:47 PM

Now you are just talking out your ass. I guess it's an opinion.


congrats, u just won who has the biggest ass  competition :o
another opinion  8)


edit: J R was disqualified  for talking the real deal ! 



Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 04, 2020, 11:08:02 PM
I've seen the videos. Do you have something to add besides vague insinuations?
No, because in cases like this I (we) don't know the full story.

He died with a police officer's knee on his neck...

If this was a done deal we wouldn't need to hold a trial.

In case you haven't been paying attention there are a lot of back stories going around.  I do not repeat unverified speculation. 

Quote
That's exactly what happened in the Eric Garner case. He was killed for selling a single cigarette. I see no evidence to the contrary about George Floyd. Once again there seems to be some vague insinuation.

 
No Garner was killed during a botched arrest "while" selling illegal singles...not killed "for" selling the singles. Arguably it is a waste of scarce resources to police such pettit crimes, but the city wants their tax revenue. In this case it cost a man's life.

Use of lethal force (except for self defense) during arrests is already against the rules, so it appears that we have judgement, training, policy, or other issues  to resolve. If a given police officer has a pattern of using excessive force, he shouldn't still be a police officer. 
Quote


Now you are just talking out your ass. I guess it's an opinion.
you said ass....  ::)
Quote
I think you are talking about taking a knee. That of course had nothing to do with disrespecting the flag but was a protest about police brutality. Sounds familiar.
I was referring to the Drew Brees statement and apology, I refered to Lebron because he injected himself into it. Don't expect me to diagram that all again.

JR

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on June 11, 2020, 06:11:25 AM
If this was a done deal we wouldn't need to hold a trial.

Yeah, let's lynch the man...  ::)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on June 11, 2020, 02:04:17 PM
Thanks, Winston. Had to look the "1921 Tulsa Race Massacre" up. My god, possibly 300 dead and 10.000 homeless.

It took the appointed commission 80 years to publish a report? Reminds me of the Tuskegee experiment. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

It also took 'till '97 before Clinton apologised to the victims. And that infamous "experiment" lasted forty years.

Puts some sense into the slogan "Black lives matter"...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on June 22, 2020, 01:32:54 PM
I do not have much hope for this working, but invite all the passionate, angry, inflamed, forum members to post whatever  is bothering them at the moment, here instead of threads about other topics..

JR
Looking at clips of the rally, cheering white folks in the background, red hats, with a venerated narcissist telling them what they want to hear, juxtaposed with the BLM goings-on, it just struck me again what a dog whistle MAGA is: "We've got to put those uppity inferior people of color and foreigners (not the terms they use of course) back down in their place, so us white superior chosen ones that this country belongs to can be at the top again."
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on June 22, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
I was watching someone asking the Trump supporters at the rally some very, very basic questions about politics.

Even the simplest question seemed bewildering to most. Until, after a question why everyone was white, they found one black man in the crowd.

He seemed the only intelligent life at that rally. The one who found him was very proud to prove the reporter wrong. When asked why he was there, the guy replied "I'm working. And I sure as hell don't support Trump".

The Trump supporter's enthusiasm vanished like a whiff of ether in the air. It's rare to be able to see true idiocy in someone's eyes.

Mark my signature. They're all believers. If Trump does grab them by the pussy, they'll say "Thank you! Mr. President!"
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on June 22, 2020, 03:23:51 PM
Like this jerk...
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/wellington/fl-ne-man-teen-confrontation-video-20200618-325wj33rcrgfvkfuq6smnm32ma-story.html

Wonder what party he's affiliated with
Hey, you found the MAGA poster boy! He'll probably get an invitation to the White House.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 22, 2020, 07:05:20 PM
I'd be down for some mail in beer.....

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR14aJ1SJFmMQ9wWcLxeNFAe3zNBiUNuZpW4uiO9YW3U5EL3cv2&usqp=CAU)
Now beer is some DIY that I can really get behind.....  8)

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 22, 2020, 08:18:16 PM
And I'm down for any  moonshine recipes up for grabs.  Anyone?
I had an uncle living in the smoky mountains who knew some local shiners...

Making high alcohol brews is a young man's game... I have been a session beer drinker all this century.  8)

For chuckles a trick I may have done when younger was to freeze beers to extract the ethyl alcohol that doesn't freeze from the water that does... didn't taste very good and I am not in a hurry to get drunk any faster these days.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on June 22, 2020, 08:46:41 PM
Getting drunk faster is a rookie move.
The summer after high school I worked in a camp in the Colorado mountains as a dishwasher. I found half a pint of fermented vanilla eaxtract in the back of a cupboard and drank it one evening, Worst hangover I've ever had - probably lucky it didn't kill me.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 23, 2020, 12:50:06 PM
Keep in mind I know nothing of chemistry here - is that 'cold extraction' ? 
cold extraction is a popular term for brewing coffee without using boiled water.... Typically you mix grounds with cold water and let it sit overnight in the fridge before filtering out the grounds.  There was at least one commercial cold filtered coffee recalled because their cold water process was not sterile.   
Quote
I've done  a similar thing in my youth by crushing in water some over-the-counter strength codeine pills and 'almost'  freezing the liquid to extract enough opiate to kill horrendous toothache without inducing a paracetamol overdose.
you need to date nurse... they get the best free samples.  8)
Quote
Getting drunk faster is a rookie move.
Yup, typically a young man's pursuit with homebrewing... Too much alcohol in beer results in a hot flavor/taste note that isn't very desirable...

Besides the Belgium tripls that use a specialized yeast (high alcohol beer kills typical beer yeast). HA experimenters use champagne yeast to make HA beer). There are well regarded higher alcohol beer brews classified as barley wines, and mead is generally higher alcohol too. 

The HA brews also require longer to bottle finish.... I am no hurry to get a buzz, but don't want to wait extra weeks for my beer.

jR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Script on June 24, 2020, 06:58:10 AM
Heard that the 2020 US presidential elections are 'rigged' already.
No matter what the outcome, I assume.
Lol
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Scodiddly on June 24, 2020, 09:14:33 AM
For chuckles a trick I may have done when younger was to freeze beers to extract the ethyl alcohol that doesn't freeze from the water that does... didn't taste very good and I am not in a hurry to get drunk any faster these days.

That's more of an up north sort of thing, something you'd read about in Jack London stories. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on June 24, 2020, 10:11:09 AM
Heard that the 2020 US presidential elections are 'rigged' already.
No matter what the outcome, I assume.
Lol
That is a common rumor used to discourage low enthusiasm voters.

[satire] "Yeah it's fixed so all the bernie bros should stay home." [/satire]

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 15, 2020, 02:42:50 PM
I think I can see how MAGAboy is going to play the election by messing with the postal system:

1) If he can sabotage the vote-by-mail effort in enough blue districts (by withholding postal funding, removing public mailboxes, etc.), he can decrease the democrat number of votes.

2) Polls show the majority of republicans want to vote in person, and democrats don't, so if the postal service can't handle the volume of mail-in ballots in a timely manner (not enough funding), a larger percentage of democrat votes won't be counted.
"An overwhelming 72% of Democrats are very likely or somewhat likely to vote by mail this November, while just 22% of Republicans say the same, a new Monmouth University poll released Tuesday found. "

3) If he doesn't win, he can try to claim that voting by mail is rife with fraud and deny/fight the election results.


On the other hand you'd think he'd push for mail in voting - I guess it's a double edged sword - I think more under 35 are likely to vote democrat, and if they can't mail it in, they won't vote.

"As the coronavirus pandemic has upended normal balloting, more than half of voters under the age of 35 say they don't have the resources or knowledge they need to vote by mail in November, according to a new poll."

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/30/896993401/poll-more-than-half-of-young-people-lack-resources-to-vote-by-mail
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 15, 2020, 03:45:19 PM
You guys are easily distracted...

My larger concern about voting is the local election officials who are even older than me, so in a pretty serious covid risk category.

At least for my local polling place (walking distance from my house) it will be no problem to social distance.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 16, 2020, 01:29:16 PM
PEADS

Saw a news blurb about this this morning. I had no idea (if true, and it seems to be.) Basically can suspend the Constitution. Scary when thinking about who develops these, and how POTUS Pants-on-Fire might use them if the election doesn't go his way, since he has stated "I have the right to do a lot of things that people don’t even know about."

Presidential Emergency Action Documents (PEADs) are executive orders, proclamations, and messages to Congress that are prepared in anticipation of a range of emergency scenarios, so that they are ready to sign and put into effect the moment one of those scenarios comes to pass. First created during the Eisenhower Administration as part of continuity-of-government plans in case of a nuclear attack, PEADs have since been expanded for use in other emergency situations where the normal operation of government is impaired. As one recent government document describes them, they are designed “to implement extraordinary presidential authority in response to extraordinary situations.”

PEADs are classified “secret,” and no PEAD has ever been declassified or leaked. Indeed, it appears that they are not even subject to congressional oversight. Although the law requires the executive branch to report even the most sensitive covert military and intelligence operations to at least some members of Congress, there is no such disclosure requirement for PEADs, and no evidence that the documents have ever been shared with relevant congressional committees.

Although PEADs themselves remain a well-kept secret, over the years a number of unclassified or de-classified documents have become available that discuss PEADs. Through these documents, we know that there were 56 PEADs in effect as of 2018, up from 48 a couple of decades earlier. PEADs undergo periodic revision; although we do not know what PEADs contain today, we know that PEADs in past years—

    -authorized detention of “alien enemies” and other “dangerous persons” within the United States;
   - suspended the writ of habeas corpus by presidential order;
    -provided for various forms of martial law;
   - issued a general warrant permitting search and seizure of persons and property;
   - established military areas such as those created during World War II;
   - suspended production of the Federal Register;
   - declared a State of War; and
   - authorized censorship of news reports.



https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/presidential-emergency-action-documents
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on August 16, 2020, 06:54:43 PM
I think I can see how MAGAboy is going to play the election by messing with the postal system:
 

Under DeJoy, 671 sorting machines have recently been removed, some of them dismantled and  destroyed.  These machines were capable of sorting 35,000  pieces of mail per hour.

I've lost count of the recent pictures I've seen of truckloads of multiple mailboxes being carted away after being removed from the streets.   Many of the remaining boxes have also been locked and some post offices are not even open.
 The USPS is now saying that a mailed-in ballot might not make it in time. 

However, the White House chief of staff has said that they won't remove further sorting machines and mail boxes between now and Election Day.  But, as we all know, there is no money available to replace or re-instate the missing machines and boxes.
So, mission most likely accomplished. 

I'm 100% in  agreement with President Obama who was critical of Captain Ouchie Foot's  "attempts to undermine the election",  that the administration was "more concerned with suppressing the vote than suppressing a virus".




 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on August 17, 2020, 04:07:44 AM
We’ve had mail In ballots for years in Colorado.  Now the state is mostly democrat dominated state .  It use to be republican. Coincidence? I don’t know.  I like being able to vote by mail.  What a cluster fxxx this year has been and will continue to be.  I liked reading about beer more than voting .   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 17, 2020, 10:07:37 AM
We’ve had mail In ballots for years in Colorado.  Now the state is mostly democrat dominated state .  It use to be republican. Coincidence? I don’t know.  I like being able to vote by mail.  What a cluster fxxx this year has been and will continue to be.  I liked reading about beer more than voting .
drinking beer is even more fun than politics...  8)

Remember just like drinking we need to pace ourselves, still 80 days to go...

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 17, 2020, 02:03:02 PM
We’ve had mail In ballots for years in Colorado.  Now the state is mostly democrat dominated state .  It use to be republican. Coincidence? I don’t know.
Maybe vote by mail came about because people wanted it (progress), regardless of politics, I don't think the state is more democrat now because mail voters were  more likely to vote democrat. I grew up in Colorado, and remember my parents discussing Eisenhower vs Stevenson. They were republicans and voted for Eisenhower. That eventually morphed into the Nixon debacle, although other happenings even worse might have occurred had Stevenson been president.

Anyway, democrats are called progressives because they want to make progress. Republicans are called conservative because they want to conserve traditional values. Just my take on it.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on August 17, 2020, 02:21:18 PM
I don't think the state is more democrat now because mail voters were  more likely to vote democrat.

Even if it is the reason,  so what ? Voting is a right, and thus should be protected.  Why do people find it ok for both parties to pick and choose which rights should be protected?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on August 17, 2020, 02:49:55 PM
Quote
Why do people find it ok for both parties to pick and choose which rights should be protected?

Not just but they rig it for their choices making it impossible to get other people on the tickets or new parties to compete.   

Biden vs a super smart Andrew Yang who could I feel bridge some divide.   This whole thing makes independents and party people hate each other when the two choices Biden / Trump are the best they can offer?  How do breaks up the mess that’s been going on and getting worse every cycle.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on August 17, 2020, 03:09:02 PM
Quote
Republicans are called conservative because they want to conserve traditional values.

True. A nuance I never entertained in my youth is that republicans also conserve progressive ideas that have been adopted and were found to repeatedly work.  Retaining progress as distinct from making progress is valuable, and we need those high in industriousness and disagreeability to 'tie us to the mast' as it were, to achieve balance with creative types high in trait openness and agreeableness who are intrested in plotting new courses.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on August 17, 2020, 03:48:24 PM
Biden vs a super smart Andrew Yang who could I feel bridge some divide.   This whole thing makes independents and party people hate each other when the two choices Biden / Trump are the best they can offer?  How do breaks up the mess that’s been going on and getting worse every cycle.

Yang seemed very logical and reasonable,  something you would think would be desirable in a leader.  But unfortunately that doesn't seem to garner much votes.

Instead it's a raging battle of which side is less  corrupt and incompetent. A viable solution would be a much needed and welcome change.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on August 20, 2020, 09:58:35 AM
Another high profile Trump crony arrested and charged with fraud:

https://www.axios.com/steve-bannon-charged-fraud-199c43c1-2e75-4535-8eb0-d96558c9f777.html?stream=top&utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts_all
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 20, 2020, 11:49:24 AM
Another high profile Trump crony arrested and charged with fraud:

https://www.axios.com/steve-bannon-charged-fraud-199c43c1-2e75-4535-8eb0-d96558c9f777.html?stream=top&utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=alerts_all
Um...  https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902518714/ex-fbi-lawyer-charged-in-case-linked-to-alleged-abuse-of-surveillance-power (https://www.npr.org/2020/08/14/902518714/ex-fbi-lawyer-charged-in-case-linked-to-alleged-abuse-of-surveillance-power)
Quote from: npr
Former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith has agreed to plead guilty to a single false statement charge, marking the first criminal action in an investigation centered on how intelligence agencies gathered information involving the Trump campaign and Russia four years ago in the waning months of the Obama administration.
-----
Durham's exact focus is a closely held secret, but he also has reached out to former senior officials, including Obama's CIA director, John Brennan, to schedule interviews in recent weeks. Durham has also begun to use a federal grand jury in Washington, D.C.

I expect more results from the Durham investigation to trickle out in the weeks leading up to the Nov vote. We may get multiple October surprises this year. One question is how high up into the prior administration they will go.

Of course I can't predict the future but Durham has already been investigating this for a year or more. Now is time for the key players to get questioned under oath. Since the people asking the questions already know the answers. If they lie they are guilty of process crime (lying to the government), if they admit to criminal behavior they are guilty (like Clinesmith).   

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on August 20, 2020, 12:58:13 PM
John, you ARE the king of whataboutisms.

This is about Trump's campaign manager as well as White House Chief of staff! Another one in a long line of criminals surrounding this president.

So one former FBI lawyer has pleaded guilty to a single false statement charge.

But: Two days ago, the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded the following:

Trump and his campaign were added and abaited by the Russians in an an "ongoing aggressive attempt".

Trump lied to federal investigator Robert Mueller (commited perjury under oath, written)!

Trump's

- Foreign Policy Adviser
- political consultant
- National Campaign Chairman
- Deputy Campaign Chairman
- National Security adviser
- personal attorney
- Attorney General


all lied UNDER OATH about contact with the Russians!

In other words:

Ben Sasse, Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton John Cornyn  have concluded that...

...the government should have been investigating what was going on in the Trump campaign

...that the Trump Campagain manager was working with a Russian agent

...Carter Page was doing suspicious things that warrented him being looked at by the people in the US government because of his activities with Russia.

...these activities posed "a grave counterintelligence thread".


You HAVE to be completely blinded by partisanship not to see things for what they are here. I rest my case.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 20, 2020, 02:24:49 PM
John, you ARE the king of whataboutisms.

This is about Trump's campaign manager as well as White House Chief of staff! Another one in a long line of criminals surrounding this president.

So one former FBI lawyer has pleaded guilty to a single false statement charge.

But: Two days ago, the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded the following:

Trump and his campaign were added and abaited by the Russians in an an "ongoing aggressive attempt".

Trump lied to federal investigator Robert Mueller (commited perjury under oath, written)!

Trump's

- Foreign Policy Adviser
- political consultant
- National Campaign Chairman
- Deputy Campaign Chairman
- National Security adviser
- personal attorney
- Attorney General


all lied UNDER OATH about contact with the Russians!

In other words:

Ben Sasse, Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton John Cornyn  have concluded that...

...the government should have been investigating what was going on in the Trump campaign

...that the Trump Campagain manager was working with a Russian agent

...Carter Page was doing suspicious things that warrented him being looked at by the people in the US government because of his activities with Russia.

...these activities posed "a grave counterintelligence thread".


You HAVE to be completely blinded by partisanship not to see things for what they are here. I rest my case.
You sound like you need a rest...

I consider it significant that the Obama administration FBI lawyer altered evidence to secure a spying warrant against Trump campaign. 

There is some speculation that he was only charged with false statement rather than altering evidence a more significant crime, supporting speculation that he may be cooperating with the Durham investigation.  It is a common strategy to flip low level actors to get testimony incriminating higher ups. That is pretty much FBI was trying to do with low level Trump campaign guys.

I still can not predict the future other than to expect more such indictments to drop over the next several weeks. 

JR

PS: Another observation is how in heated political discourse people accuse you of exactly what they are doing... If I am the king of whataboutism, what is your remarkable list of accusations? (rhetorical you don't need to answer).
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on August 20, 2020, 03:09:52 PM
You guys are giving a nice demonstration of what I wrote a few posts back  :)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 20, 2020, 04:20:01 PM
Yup, all politicians are crooks (except Nixon, of course.)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on August 20, 2020, 04:20:58 PM
It is a common strategy to flip low level actors to get testimony incriminating higher ups. That is pretty much FBI was trying to do with low level Trump campaign guys.

I still can not predict the future other than to expect more such indictments to drop over the next several weeks. 

JR

Other than common strategy, have any other reasons why you expect more indictments?

I personally don’t expect anything more, unless there’s a released investigational report that might indicate otherwise.

However, there’s plenty of actual convictions already on the other side that seem to be overlooked often from the far-right.

By the way, to be clear, I’m all for Klinesmith’s conviction.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on August 20, 2020, 04:50:37 PM
You sound like you need a rest...

I consider it significant that the Obama administration FBI lawyer altered evidence to secure a spying warrant against Trump campaign. 


Seriously weak, John.  When confronted by a list of wrongdoing by Trump and minions, the best you can do is come at  an "Obama" lawyer.  Did Obama appoint this lawyer?  Lots of people work in the FBI through multiple administrations of both parties. 

And as best I've been able to discern, he altered an email (which is unacceptable), but he didn't misrepresent factual information. 

If Trump and his appointees (including and perhaps especially Bill Barr) were held to the same standard, they'd all be serving life in prison right now. 

All Bill Barr does is dig to find any undotted "i" or uncrossed "t" that might be used to serve Trump.  He has no interest in the rule of law or the welfare of this nation; his only mission (as he sees it) is to protect Big Daddy Trump. 

And the Republican faithful, more and more desperate for something, anything to reaffirm  their ever more challenged belief in their party,  grab these mere shreds and hold them up like shields in an effort to protect themselves from the monstrous truth:  the GOP has become a morally bankrupt, unprincipled pit of grift, graft and corruption. 

SAD.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 20, 2020, 05:31:21 PM
Other than common strategy, have any other reasons why you expect more indictments?
Probably some wishful thinking and gossip... these guys don't leak stuff like the other team.
Quote
I personally don’t expect anything more, unless there’s a released investigational report that might indicate otherwise.
The IG report suggested wrong doing but was not set up to issue indictments, the Durham investigation OTOH is and was designated a criminal investigation back in Oct 2019 signaling criminal charges could be forthcoming.

I don't expect Clinesmith to be the last but the first from this grand jury investigation.

It is also against the law for DOJ actions to intentionally influence elections (which seems all but impossible in this case). Perhaps thats why the Clinesmith announcement was made on sleepy summer friday afternoon. I'm sure President Trump sees this as political ammunition, but by law these political sensitive revalations need to be 60 days before the vote (sept 4th ) like two weeks from now. Durham hasn't even interviewed several witnesses like John Brennan.

Clearly Comey was not following the 60 day rule when he reopened the Hillary email investigation when he did just before the election. Fired AG Sally Yates threw Comey under the bus (saying that he went rogue). The rats are trying to distance themselves from each other.

Smarter people than me say that the 60 day rule does not apply to the Durham investigation because neither Biden or Trump are targets of the actual investigation. This could reflect poorly on VP Biden depending on how high up it goes but the messaging is telegraphing that Biden is not a target. There are more than enough miscreants who did enough bad stuff to send some corrective feedback.

The closest I've seen to this in my tender few years paying attention to domestic politics was Richard Nixon and the Watergate "plumbers" break into the DNC to steal opposition information.  This seems worse by several degrees, Trump appears to have been spied on by a sitting administration using our own FBI and national intelligence community. Nixon's plumbers were amateurs by comparison. 


Quote
However, there’s plenty of actual convictions already on the other side that seem to be overlooked often from the far-right.
Bannon appears to be caught with his hand in the cookie jar, hard to imagine what he was thinking if at all...
Quote
By the way, to be clear, I’m all for Klinesmith’s conviction.
He is a low level puke... but spying on american citizens for political purposes is unacceptable IMO. Clinesmith was just a cog in the gears grinding out this abuse of the system, not the leadership. He needs to get his wrist slapped and hopefully share what he knows.   

For the record I do not claim this is anything more but the first drip from what I expect to me multiple revelations from the durham investigation.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on August 20, 2020, 06:27:39 PM
[...] Trump appears to have been spied on by a sitting administration using our own FBI and national intelligence community.

Truly stunning Ministry of Truth level of distortion of the facts.

Trump's campaign was being investigated by the responsible authorities, the latter doing their job defending and upholding the Constitution, because the former were coordinating with a foreign adversary.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on August 20, 2020, 06:37:25 PM
Top GOP National Security Officials Back Biden:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-republicans-idUSKBN25G2C5
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 20, 2020, 06:41:19 PM
Small-minded me is happy that people who believed in and contributed to that wall debacle got screwed. "We're going to build a border wall, and Mexico is going to pay for it."  How stupid and naive can they be.

Go ahead and vote for him again: f**k me once, shame on you; f**k me twice, shame on me.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 20, 2020, 06:47:30 PM
Top GOP National Security Officials Back Biden:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-republicans-idUSKBN25G2C5
Thanks for that link - couldn't say it better myself:

Bob Tuttle, who was director of personnel under Reagan and ambassador to the UK under George W. Bush, is a member of the national security group and said Trump’s handling of the coronavirus crisis had been “abominable.”

“He’s a malignant narcissist. He’s a liar. He’s a despicable human being and the worst president in American history - it’s not even close,” Tuttle told Reuters.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on August 21, 2020, 12:25:54 AM
There are more than enough miscreants who did enough bad stuff to send some corrective feedback.

The closest I've seen to this in my tender few years paying attention to domestic politics was Richard Nixon and the Watergate "plumbers" break into the DNC to steal opposition information.  This seems worse by several degrees, Trump appears to have been spied on by a sitting administration using our own FBI and national intelligence community. Nixon's plumbers were amateurs by comparison.

So to be clear, you honestly believe this spying went high-up in the chain of command, though probably not as high as VP (while Trump spouts that it was Obama himself and should be prosecuted, as one of his many continuous rally-cries for his base), by two huge service departments of government, and there was absolutely no legitimate reason for it?

Even though there’s actual convictions of people around Trump? And absolutely all those convictions have absolutely nothing to do with some people in the Trump campaign trying to illegally coordinate with foreign influence. That Trump and his campaign are victims of the United States government? That they didn’t bring all this on themselves? I’d like to see how that would play out in court.

Was there a group of people willing to do illegals things to try and catch them? Possibly. Certainly not unheard of in the world of policing! Obviously at least one we know of so far. But what you seem to be putting out there so far doesn’t seem to add up to me.

I mean, I’m all for policing the police. What you’re talking about is systematic and is apart of what this time is happening in the streets right now.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 22, 2020, 11:12:12 AM
Yup, all politicians are crooks (except Nixon, of course.)
When a politician says "I am not a crook" , he surely is.  President Nixon drafted me so screw him....

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 22, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
So to be clear, you honestly believe this spying went high-up in the chain of command, though probably not as high as VP (while Trump spouts that it was Obama himself and should be prosecuted, as one of his many continuous rally-cries for his base), by two huge service departments of government, and there was absolutely no legitimate reason for it?

Even though there’s actual convictions of people around Trump? And absolutely all those convictions have absolutely nothing to do with some people in the Trump campaign trying to illegally coordinate with foreign influence. That Trump and his campaign are victims of the United States government? That they didn’t bring all this on themselves? I’d like to see how that would play out in court.

Was there a group of people willing to do illegals things to try and catch them? Possibly. Certainly not unheard of in the world of policing! Obviously at least one we know of so far. But what you seem to be putting out there so far doesn’t seem to add up to me.

I mean, I’m all for policing the police. What you’re talking about is systematic and is apart of what this time is happening in the streets right now.
It's not about what I believe, it's about what the DOJ can prove.

This will all be revealed soon enough, the Durham investigation was delayed over the last several months by COVID making it difficult to investigate individuals face to face. This investigation will likely still not be completely finished by the Nov vote.  For purely political purposes one would expect a pre-vote end point timeline. 

JR

PS: Yesterday I retired my old worn out flag by burning it. Ironically haters burn the American flag trying to disrespect it while accidentally honoring it.  ::) Iran dishonored the American flag pretty effectively by painting a flag onto a city street for everybody to walk on. In the middle east the bottom of a shoe is extreme disrespect.

I replaced my worn flag with a new "blue lives matters" flag, unsure if that now makes me a white supremacist, or am I still just a deplorable racist, sexist, whatever...  8) 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on August 22, 2020, 12:05:33 PM
It's not about what I believe, it's about what the DOJ can prove.


I won't even bother to discuss the subjectivity of Bill Barr's choice of investigative topics. 

You seem to be wrapped up in what minutiae Barr can dig up on the investigators while ignoring all the evidence of Trump administration wrongdoing that's staring you in the face.  There's waste, corruption, fraud and deceit staring you in the face--so much that it's impossible to look into it all--and you and Barr are obsessed with this conspiracy theory that "they" were "out to get" Trump. 
The Senate laid it out there:  the Trump team was actively engaged with the Russians during the '16 election.  There's plenty of evidence of it, and that's even with the administration's stonewalling and outright lying.
 The FBI knew enough about it to be rightly and gravely concerned.  You and Barr seem happy to ignore any and all malfeasance by Trump while going after the investigators with a shocking vigor and intensity. 

So.......
Do you believe that the Trump campaign engaging with the Russians on election interference was unacceptable, but that the bad actors should all get off because of some legal technicailities?  In that case, wouldn't it make sense to support neither the FBI nor the Trump administration, since neither is innocent of wrongdoing? 

Do you believe that Trump's dalliance with the Russians was perfectly fine, and that all nations should be allowed to collude with presidential campaigns? 

Do you believe that, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, Trump's campaign was perfectly innocent in this matter? 

I ask because I'm not at all clear what you actually believe here.   Are you at the point where you're going to defend your side, no matter how inconsistent or unempirical that defense may be?  Or are there some core beliefs there that are not being fully stated? 

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on August 22, 2020, 01:24:43 PM
When a politician says "I am not a crook" , he surely is.  President Nixon drafted me so screw him....

JR
Oh c'mon - if you can believe POTUS Pants-on-Fire, surely you can believe Nixon, of stellar character in comparison.

He didn't draft me - I reported to basic 3 days before his inauguration. But he was president during the rest of my indentured servitude.

Graffiti in a john in Long Binh:
If you voted for Nixon you can't sh!t here - your ass hole is in Washington.

As always, FTA.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on August 23, 2020, 10:30:28 AM
This is Adam Shiff from February 4th on the whole impeachment thing:

Trump’s defense has retreated to their last defense:

He’s guilty as sin, but the voters should clean up this mess.

We must ask ourselves:

Can we trust the President will not continue to try to cheat in that very election?

The sad and incontestable answer is:

No, we can’t.


That whole discussion seems so long ago now, but it is as predicted (and I and others said the same thing right here, I believe):  how can you let an election render the verdict on an election-cheater?  Motherf*cker is just gonna cheat some more. 

And we're seeing that play out not at all subtly before our eyes:  Trump is determined to rig this election,  and he's simultaneously working to cast doubt on the entire process in order to create an opening for him to crawl through to become president again. 
Cheaters gonna cheat.  Time has proven that all the  "let the election decide" crowd were either stupid or mendacious.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 23, 2020, 10:36:30 AM
Oh c'mon - if you can believe POTUS Pants-on-Fire, surely you can believe Nixon, of stellar character in comparison.

He didn't draft me - I reported to basic 3 days before his inauguration. But he was president during the rest of my indentured servitude.

Graffiti in a john in Long Binh:
If you voted for Nixon you can't sh!t here - your ass hole is in Washington.

As always, FTA.
I was a short timer counting my days to ETA starting with 700 something.

When I got out they didn't even bother to give me a reenlistment interview.

FTA

JR 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on August 25, 2020, 08:54:48 AM
I replaced my worn flag with a new "blue lives matters" flag, unsure if that now makes me a white supremacist, or am I still just a deplorable racist, sexist, whatever...  8)

Support Kenosha cops. NOT. No need for police with concealed carry licenses.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on August 26, 2020, 02:22:57 PM
Support Kenosha cops. NOT. No need for police with concealed carry licenses.

...and the Kenosha police let a white man walk into the protests with what appeared to be a semi-automatic rifle as people on the streets screamed to have him arrested. Quite possible this was the man who killed protesters last night. HOW CAN ANYONE SUPPORT THAT?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on August 26, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
Quite possible this was the man who killed protesters last night. 

It was.  I woke up unusually early in the UK and watched all the horrific live-stream video footage as it was happening.   

I hooked up via Twitter with a few who were on the ground there and also some folks who were at home analysing the vids.
We (OK, mostly them) had identified him as Kyle Rittenhouse within an hour of him shooting the last victim.

After he'd  killed 2 and seriously wounded another (this 3rd victim will likely lose his arm), the murderer walked right past the local cops (who knew him as they'd given him water earlier in the evening) and was allowed to flee the state, thus becoming a fugitive from justice. 

Anyway, guess what, his Facebook page shows lots of 'blue lives matter' pics.     
* Edit - just revealed he was also a Trump supporter and went to a  'Dear Leader'  rally earlier this year. 

He's now been charged and is in custody in IL awaiting a hearing to extradite to WI.
 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on August 27, 2020, 07:14:43 AM

I replaced my worn flag with a new "blue lives matters" flag, unsure if that now makes me a white supremacist, or am I still just a deplorable racist, sexist, whatever...  8)

If you keep flowing that flag after what happened this week you don't have to feel "unsure" anymore.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on August 27, 2020, 08:04:39 AM
...and we've got someone here who claims Breitbart is a reputable news source. The Kenosha killings article was LITTERED with graphic videos of these people being shot and then up close shots of the 1st victim's eyes rolling back in his head while he bled out on the street. I guess that's what happens to protesters in America... sorry, 'MURICA. Open your eyes and scream loudly. Things are broken.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on August 27, 2020, 08:13:34 AM
If you keep flowing that flag after what happened this week you don't have to feel "unsure" anymore.

Obviously he's still stuck on stuff in other times...... I guess If these cops could just be trained  that  everything is going to be just fine and there's absolutely no chance they're going to die, they could act a bit different.... but now it's kinda like the chicken and the egg... Who was fearful of their lives first... or something like that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_67H-AoQqQ
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on August 27, 2020, 08:43:03 AM
I replaced my worn flag with a new "blue lives matters" flag, unsure if that now makes me a white supremacist, or am I still just a deplorable racist, sexist, whatever...  8)

The "thin blue line" flag is not just a "dog whistle" in my region of the country, but a screaming air horn indicating that racists can be found nearby. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but you'll sure pull some tribalist racists in to listen.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on August 27, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
The "thin blue line" flag is not just a "dog whistle" in my region of the country, but a screaming air horn indicating that racists can be found nearby. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but you'll sure pull some tribalist racists in to listen.
I refuse to argue about me, but your low opinion of me is noted. If I was that easy to cancel I'd be long gone already.
=======
On the subject of talking points (this thread is about talking points) I heard a new one... "jobs, not mobs". Sometimes it looks like the left is trying to help President Trump get re-elected. All you haters be sure to vote in Nov. 
======
The police officers in Wisconsin didn't have body cams. They were authorized but the funding (cost $1M) was not available. I hope that wasn't because of the defund movement.

Good luck everybody and stay safe, especially anybody in the path of Hurricane Laura.

JR

PS: My blue lives matters flag is not flying today because we are getting outer rain bands from Hurricane Laura. If you look at the flag it contains black and blue stripes also. There are many black and minority police officers. I support them all, and embrace reform (not defunding). It is really disappointing to see the black, female, reform police chief in Seattle (Carmen Best) resign because of funding cuts and no support from her local politicians. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on August 27, 2020, 08:23:48 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on August 28, 2020, 09:31:06 AM
If you look at the flag it contains black and blue stripes also. There are many black and minority police officers. I support them all
All Lives Matter, right?

"I have black friends. Really, I do."

You might have to look up that social reference.

Also, to clarify, the talking point is the racism perpetuated by white Republicans(since that's what this thread is about).
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on August 28, 2020, 03:29:54 PM
What the hell is a blue life anyway ?  No one is born blue or has blue skin.    It's a f**king uniform colour. 

In this time of social unrest, flying a flag like that is akin to flying the confederate flag. 

"I'm not racist, I even have some black friends...  but "   

My arse.



Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on August 28, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
This discussion reminds me of this quote, which relates to anyones opinion of "which lives matter":

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/a9/75/32a975a6b74845b77c5defffeef3e706.png)

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on August 28, 2020, 06:41:07 PM
It's not only racism. It's fascism in every level of society:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200825/21321545185/federal-court-no-you-f**king-may-not-force-your-way-into-home-strip-search-six-very-young-children.shtml

These children have already felt fascism first hand before entering kindergarten.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: ruairioflaherty on August 28, 2020, 11:48:55 PM
This discussion reminds me of this quote, which relates to anyones opinion of "which lives matter":

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/a9/75/32a975a6b74845b77c5defffeef3e706.png)

No, this is identity politics 101 and one of the many reasons that things are so deeply messed up right now. Correct this to "Never take advice from someone with bad ideas". 

There are lots of people on all sides of the current split "Who have to live with the consequences" who are deeply misguided about what the solutions to these issues might be.  And I don't need to have a certain skin color to know that.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on August 29, 2020, 03:14:27 AM
... I don't need to have a certain skin color to know that.

Amen.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 01, 2020, 10:41:00 AM
So Trump went off about the "people in the shadows" who control Biden and the planes full of people "dressed in all black."  That is awesome!!  I'm really flashing back to my crotchedy grandfather's voluminous mail from the 90s, all the hucksters talking about the UN and the black helicopters.  And what a crime it was that donations to them were not tax deductible because of some evil government conspiracy, but if you don't send money NOW, the black helicopters WILL WIN.  Send a check IMMEDIATELY or the UN Storm Troopers will be knocking your door down any minute!

So sad that so many Republicans are such suckers. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on September 01, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
"What The Hell?"

Elvin Bishop & Charlie Musselwhite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpCX3cqWqYw
edit: sorry about the ad.

Look at the shape, the shape the nation's in
This situation is a shame and a sin
I want to know, how could a good thing go so wrong?
Tell me, what the hell is going on?

Sometimes I don't know whether to cry or laugh
Half the people in this country can't stand the other half
I want to know, why can't we halfway get along?
People, people, what the hell is going on?

He is the president but wants to be the king
Know what I like about the guy? Not a goddamn thing
I want to know, how can four years seem so long?
Lord have mercy, what the hell is going on?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 01, 2020, 10:41:40 PM
Is this a talking point, or a(Republican) shooting point. Seen 2 in the neighborhood now. I feel real safe...(improper display of American flag).
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 08, 2020, 09:36:53 PM
Further evidence that Bill Barr believes that he's Trump's Attorney General and not the US Attorney General  (or maybe Billy believes "l'etat c'est Trump."):
The Justice Department on Tuesday intervened in the defamation lawsuit brought by a woman who says President Trump raped her years ago, moving the matter to federal court and signaling it wants to make the U.S. government — rather than Trump himself — the defendant in the case.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/jean-carroll-trump-justice-department/2020/09/08/37faa380-f22a-11ea-b796-2dd09962649c_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/jean-carroll-trump-justice-department/2020/09/08/37faa380-f22a-11ea-b796-2dd09962649c_story.html)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 09, 2020, 07:42:23 AM
Republicans complain about government spending, but I bet you won't hear a even a peep from them as OUR tax dollars are about protect their boy. Party of religion. HA!
Further evidence that Bill Barr believes that he's Trump's Attorney General and not the US Attorney General  (or maybe Billy believes "l'etat c'est Trump."):
The Justice Department on Tuesday intervened in the defamation lawsuit brought by a woman who says President Trump raped her years ago, moving the matter to federal court and signaling it wants to make the U.S. government — rather than Trump himself — the defendant in the case.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/jean-carroll-trump-justice-department/2020/09/08/37faa380-f22a-11ea-b796-2dd09962649c_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/jean-carroll-trump-justice-department/2020/09/08/37faa380-f22a-11ea-b796-2dd09962649c_story.html)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 11, 2020, 03:25:54 PM
In case anyone's curious, this link contains (along with an article) the entirety of John Gleeson's amicus brief excoriating the DOJ for its move to dismiss the Flynn case. 
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/gleeson-in-bid-to-keep-flynn-case-alive-says-doj-acting-as-lackey-for-trump (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/gleeson-in-bid-to-keep-flynn-case-alive-says-doj-acting-as-lackey-for-trump)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 11, 2020, 04:08:23 PM
Also, in case anyone missed the Andriy Derkach story, here's a headline I grabbed:
U.S. sanctions Ukrainian lawmaker tied to Giuliani as ‘active Russian agent’

So basically, not only did the Trump campaign collude with Russians in 2016, it is continuing to do so to this day. 

That's why the Republican mantra of "We'll let the people decide in November" rings so hollow.  Trump is still colluding with foreign powers in an effort to game the election.  Not to mention all his other efforts to interfere with a free and fair presidential election this year. 

If someone is caught cheating at cards, you don't say, "Let's play some more hands and then we'll see."  You throw the cheater out of the f*cking game.  And that is what should have happened to Trump.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on September 11, 2020, 04:37:15 PM
If someone is caught cheating at cards, you don't say, "Let's play some more hands and then we'll see."  You throw the cheater out of the f*cking game.  And that is what should have happened to Trump.
He plays golf.

Reilly doesn’t say if he agrees with this diagnosis. But at the end of his book, he raises the question of whether Trump’s cheating matters and answers it in the affirmative. “If you’ll cheat to win at golf, is it that much further to cheat to win an election? To turn a Congressional vote? To stop an investigation? If you’ll lie about every aspect of the game, is that much further to lie about your taxes, your relationship with Russians, your groping of women? . . . I’m glad my dad didn’t live to see a Commander in Cheat like Trump. It would’ve turned his stomach.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trump-the-serial-golf-cheat-in-the-white-house
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on September 11, 2020, 07:54:24 PM
In case anyone's curious, this link contains (along with an article) the entirety of John Gleeson's amicus brief excoriating the DOJ for its move to dismiss the Flynn case. 
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/gleeson-in-bid-to-keep-flynn-case-alive-says-doj-acting-as-lackey-for-trump (https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/gleeson-in-bid-to-keep-flynn-case-alive-says-doj-acting-as-lackey-for-trump)
Don't bury the lede!

Quote
To describe the Government’s Motion to Dismiss as irregular would be a study in understatement. In the United States, Presidents do not orchestrate pressure campaigns to get the Justice Department to drop charges against defendants who have pleaded guilty—twice, before two different judges—and whose guilt is obvious.  And the Justice Department does not seek to dismiss criminal charges on grounds riddled with legal and factual error, then argue that the validity of those grounds cannot even be briefed to the Court that accepted the defendant’s guilty plea. Nor does the Justice Department make a practice of attacking its own prior filings in a case, as well as judicial opinions ruling in its favor, all while asserting that the normal rules should be set aside for a defendant who is openly favored by the President.

Yet that is exactly what has unfolded here.
So what's the over/under here on the posts talking about activist/biased judges?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 12, 2020, 12:16:23 AM
So what's the over/under here on the posts talking about activist/biased judges?
Of course, Sullivan was appointed by a Republican president--it's kind of hard for conservatives to call him an activist judge (not that they wouldn't).  My money is on Deep State--anybody that contradicts Trump or challenges his divine right to be the absolute ruler of this country must be part of the Deep State Conspiracy. 

So, yeah.  I'll pass on the Activist Judge action--I'm putting a sawbuck down on Deep State.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 12, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809)
Because science must bend to meet the pronouncements of Dear Leader.

ince Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign official with no medical or scientific background, was installed in April as the health department's new spokesperson, there have been substantial efforts to align the reports with Trump's statements, including the president's claims that fears about the outbreak are overstated, or stop the reports altogether.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on September 12, 2020, 02:54:16 PM
Talking about corrupt, partisan judges: A majority of 5 Trump apointees and a GWB apointee ruled yesterday that ex-felons need to pay what amounts to a poll tax to be able to vote. And to make it even harder, there is no central database where they can look up what they would have to pay to be able to vote.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article245664660.html

This flies in the face of the 24th amendment to the Constitution as well as the will of the voters, who explicitly opted to allow ex-convicts the right to vote.

Banana Republic.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on September 12, 2020, 03:42:46 PM

This flies in the face of the 24th amendment to the Constitution as well as the will of the voters, who explicitly opted to allow ex-convicts the right to vote.


I'm not sure how long felons haven't been able to vote in FL? Maybe at least 50 years??  Surely there are a few felons who have long long been out of the system that don't have loose ends?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on September 12, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809)
Because science must bend to meet the pronouncements of Dear Leader.

ince Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign official with no medical or scientific background, was installed in April as the health department's new spokesperson, there have been substantial efforts to align the reports with Trump's statements, including the president's claims that fears about the outbreak are overstated, or stop the reports altogether.

"CDC to me appears to be writing hit pieces on the administration," appointee Paul Alexander wrote, calling on Redfield to modify two already published reports that Alexander claimed wrongly inflated the risks of coronavirus to children and undermined Trump's push to reopen schools. "CDC tried to report as if once kids get together, there will be spread and this will impact school re-opening . . . Very misleading by CDC and shame on them. Their aim is clear."

Alexander also called on Redfield to halt all future MMWR reports until the agency modified its years-old publication process so he could personally review the entire report prior to publication, rather than a brief synopsis. Alexander, an assistant professor of health research at McMaster University near Toronto whom Caputo recruited this spring to be his scientific adviser, added that CDC needed to allow him to make line edits — and demanded an "immediate stop" to the reports in the meantime.

"The reports must be read by someone outside of CDC like myself, and we cannot allow the reporting to go on as it has been, for it is outrageous. Its lunacy," Alexander told Redfield and other officials. "Nothing to go out unless I read and agree with the findings how they CDC, wrote it and I tweak it to ensure it is fair and balanced and 'complete.'"


Wow! Physicians and other medical professionals have relied on the MMWR for decades as the most reliable, scientifically sound, up-to-date (published weekly) information source for disease in the USA. To have it reviewed and revised by political appointees prior to publication defeats its whole purpose.

Government control of information is the bedrock of dictatorship.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 13, 2020, 09:15:53 AM
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/12/912301325/longtime-climate-science-denier-hired-at-noaa

Just like Scott Pruitt was put in charge of the EPA. May all Republicans' children suffer from their parents' decisions. Last I checked, the West Coast is ablaze. Can't wait to see the Trump "grand finale". I would assume it's still to be revealed.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on September 13, 2020, 04:18:14 PM
If I may paraphrase:

Quote
Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it; take advantage of every opportunity to raise a political whirlwind.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Tubetec on September 13, 2020, 05:01:21 PM
'Never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it; take advantage of every opportunity to raise a political whirlwind.'

Reminds me of an article years and years ago in playboy magazine , 'Maxim's of a Mafia boss'

Maybe Mat might reveal the source of the quote?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on September 13, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
goofle shows this when you type in the paragraph

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hitler-psychological-profile/
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on September 13, 2020, 06:03:36 PM
May all Republicans' children suffer from their parents' decisions.

No. I'd rather hope they may "learn from their parents' mistakes".
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on September 13, 2020, 07:22:20 PM
Maybe Mat might reveal the source of the quote?
It was from an OSS publication after WW2, titled "A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler: His Life and Legend".  However if you dig into it, it wasn't only about Hitler, and was more a characterization of his inner circle and the Nazi Party leadership as a whole.  For example, many of the quotes were paraphrased directly from Goebbels, etc.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 13, 2020, 07:36:27 PM
No. I'd rather hope they may "learn from their parents' mistakes".
I realize the insensitivity of my post. I just don't feel that these are mistakes. I feel like people are rooting for the villain and are trying to "prove liberals wrong" with a weird and belligerent type of rebellion. People are mynah bird echoing(Trump talk) stuff like windmills cause cancer and kill 50% of the surrounding bird population... and they know better. It's a gamble on winning on a Hail Mary play while being a jerk. Not a mistake.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on September 14, 2020, 11:43:54 AM
Just had reinforcement this weekend that I have serious psychological and sociological problems. POTUS Pants-on-fire had a rally near Reno (where I have to get daily fake real news channels), and all the regular programs on all local channels were preempted for hours for coverage of his visit. I kept checking every once in awhile to see if normal programming had returned. Landing the plane, waiting for him to emerge from the plane, waiting along 395 between Reno and Minden (people with signs, cars and motorcycles with flashing red lights, news patter filling time) - reminded me of OJ and the Bronco (but that at least was PIP during an NBA playoff game). Then the waiting rally crowd in Minden, loud music, shouting and dancing, holding placards, jammed together, no masks - at least it was outside. Then the rally, shouting and applauding at every hopeful lie. It reminded me of a high school pep rally, but even more like a holy roller church service.

What this has to do with rationally choosing someone who can competently lead the country is beyond me. Hence my name, crazydoc. If the world is sane, then I am crazy.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: cyrano on September 17, 2020, 12:01:28 AM
Republicans voted for a bit strange figure in some sheriff elections in New Jersey:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/09/transsexual-satanist-anarchist-wins-gop-primary-campaign-slogan-fk-police/

Quote
“Transsexual Satanist anarchist” wins GOP primary with campaign slogan “F**k the police”

Well, checking who you're voting for isn't necessary, apparently... :o
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: rob_gould on September 17, 2020, 02:07:52 AM
Republicans voted for a bit strange figure in some sheriff elections in New Jersey:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/09/transsexual-satanist-anarchist-wins-gop-primary-campaign-slogan-fk-police/

Well, checking who you're voting for isn't necessary, apparently... :o

Wow, that is incredible!
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 23, 2020, 08:18:42 PM
The thought of him being re-elected, or imposing martial law because he loses, is what panics me.
Do not panic.

JR

Seems like bad advice.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/politics/trump-election-day-peaceful-transition/index.html
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on September 24, 2020, 11:41:20 AM
“... there won’t be a transfer frankly,” Trump said. “There’ll be a continuation. The ballots are out of control..."
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on September 24, 2020, 11:45:47 PM
Just read 72% of the decommissioned machines are where Clinton won in 2016. What are those odds that it’s a coincidence or that those really were the ones that needed to be done the most? Or that the timing of this is all coincidental?

I don’t understand people.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: L´Andratté on September 25, 2020, 04:46:32 AM
Democrats and democrat leaning media always are going like "Wake up this is a threat to democracy" as if Trump supporters hadn´t noticed it yet, but I think that´s just what a serious number of people are going for, thrashing American democracy, so Trump is really working for them (although purely coincidental since he is only capable of working for himself apparently).

Through all the desaster and loss I fear Trump will prevail, mainly because the Democrats, who are really unconvincing by themselves, cannot get a grip how to fight him, they focus on his person and what he says, his negligence and shortcomings and it is the best favour they could do him.

They don´t have a concept of their own apart from back to business, people want change, they need change towards their interests. The world is changing anyway, they feel left behind. "You grab anything when you fall". That´s Trump´s ticket.

Probably it doesn´t matter anyway, when you check out the ecological impact of mankind we will soon be gone for good. :'(

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 26, 2020, 10:00:15 PM


I replaced my worn flag with a new "blue lives matters" flag, unsure if that now makes me a white supremacist, or am I still just a deplorable racist, sexist, whatever...  8)
Patriotism for the win across the country... :'(
§1. Flag; stripes and stars on
The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white; and the union of the flag shall be forty-eight stars [Note: Sec. 2 provides for additional stars; Today the flag has fifty stars representing the fifty states — Webmaster], white in a blue field
§2. Same; additional stars
On the admission of a new State into the Union one star shall be added to the union of the flag; and such addition shall take effect on the fourth day of July then next succeeding such admission
§3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag
Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court. The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 26, 2020, 10:12:45 PM
So now this flag is not just "static" on a flagpole, but it is now a full-sized flag on the Ford dually screaming through the neighbourhood at 7am and all other times of the day. I screamed out, "Children can read that!!!". I will do so going forward. I can't imagine the debate to ensue. You can't make this stuff up... and I sure wouldn't want to get called out for standing up with/beside this person. Seven year-olds know better. Is this a politics talking point or a decency talking point?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 26, 2020, 11:34:28 PM
I just read a piece by the guy who stood in for Trump in H. Clinton's debate prep in 2016:

"And in the GOP primary debates, his answers involved three parts: I am great; you are terrible; and a nonsensical digression that often changed the subject entirely."

I'm not sure he'll follow the exact same pattern in 2020, but I do expect a plethora of nonsensical digressions. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on September 28, 2020, 08:37:29 AM
Probably some wishful thinking and gossip... these guys don't leak stuff like the other team. The IG report suggested wrong doing but was not set up to issue indictments, the Durham investigation OTOH is and was designated a criminal investigation back in Oct 2019 signaling criminal charges could be forthcoming.

I don't expect Clinesmith to be the last but the first from this grand jury investigation.

It is also against the law for DOJ actions to intentionally influence elections (which seems all but impossible in this case). Perhaps thats why the Clinesmith announcement was made on sleepy summer friday afternoon. I'm sure President Trump sees this as political ammunition, but by law these political sensitive revalations need to be 60 days before the vote (sept 4th ) like two weeks from now. Durham hasn't even interviewed several witnesses like John Brennan.

Clearly Comey was not following the 60 day rule when he reopened the Hillary email investigation when he did just before the election. Fired AG Sally Yates threw Comey under the bus (saying that he went rogue). The rats are trying to distance themselves from each other.

Smarter people than me say that the 60 day rule does not apply to the Durham investigation because neither Biden or Trump are targets of the actual investigation. This could reflect poorly on VP Biden depending on how high up it goes but the messaging is telegraphing that Biden is not a target. There are more than enough miscreants who did enough bad stuff to send some corrective feedback.

The closest I've seen to this in my tender few years paying attention to domestic politics was Richard Nixon and the Watergate "plumbers" break into the DNC to steal opposition information.  This seems worse by several degrees, Trump appears to have been spied on by a sitting administration using our own FBI and national intelligence community. Nixon's plumbers were amateurs by comparison. 

Bannon appears to be caught with his hand in the cookie jar, hard to imagine what he was thinking if at all... He is a low level puke... but spying on american citizens for political purposes is unacceptable IMO. Clinesmith was just a cog in the gears grinding out this abuse of the system, not the leadership. He needs to get his wrist slapped and hopefully share what he knows.   

For the record I do not claim this is anything more but the first drip from what I expect to me multiple revelations from the durham investigation.

JR
It looks like the Durham report will be delayed until after the election. This is actually the way they are supposed to behave just before elections. It appears the investigation has expanded further as more criminal activity was uncovered, and was delayed by COVID safety practices hindering face to face interviews.

When in doubt do what's right.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 28, 2020, 09:00:51 AM
It appears the investigation has expanded further as more "criminal" activity was uncovered, and was delayed by COVID safety practices hindering face to face interviews.

When in doubt do what's right.

Your punchline is really funny, John.  From what I gather they may be re-investigating Hillary's emails for the 8 millionth time--hard-hitting stuff.  Until Durham starts looking into the role of the New York FBI office in pushing Trump's candidacy(there's plenty of evidence of that, but they were helping Trump, so they're obviously just "patriots"), I'll just assume his investigation is another partisan Republican witch hunt. 

EDIT:  And surely you'd like an investigation into Trump's finances, just to make sure no foreign entity happens to pay Trump money or relieve him of one of his excessive debts while coincidentally Trump uses his power as president to effect US policy to favor said entity?  Now that we're finally getting some insight into Trump's massive, personally guaranteed debts, I'd say that merits a much closer look. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on September 28, 2020, 07:13:11 PM
There's nothing amiss here Hodad, it's all consistent... everything in the report that implicates Trump is fake news, tainted by biased investigators, however those same biased investigators got it all exactly right in investigation Trump's rivals.  The burning house isn't the real story (the one with Trump standing in front with a can of gas and a shirt labeled "If I did it"), it's that Joe Biden once lit a match in his fireplace, proving all this fire business is connected!

#twomovies #deepstate #itsfakeifidisagree
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 29, 2020, 04:08:50 AM
At least he understands business.

JR

HA!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/report-that-trump-is-400-million-in-debt-raises-national-security-concerns-01601332900
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on September 29, 2020, 04:19:41 AM
If I'm not mistaken, that alleged $400 million debt is the amount due in full within the next 4 years (no doubt these interest only loans would be extended should he serve another term), but his total debt is more than double that amount at $1.1 billion.



 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 29, 2020, 02:07:14 PM
...but his total debt is more than double that amount at $1.1 billion.
At least he understands business.

JR
If 1.1 billion is an accurate figure and 1/3 of our country(120 million) understood business like Trump, there would be 1.32E17 dollars in personal debt alone. This is 100 times ALL the money in the world. Good business model.
| 2020 Edition. There is approximately US $37 trillion in circulation: this includes all the physical money and the money deposited in savings and checking accounts. Money in the form of investments, derivatives, and cryptocurrencies exceeds $1.2 quadrillion.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on September 29, 2020, 04:06:03 PM
The big story doesn't seem to be the amount of tax he paid:  I think most people understand that capital gains is skewed to favor the wealthy, and Trump certainly isn't the first tax evader (excuse me...the first to take full advantage of everything the tax code has to offer) to exist.

It's that he literally insolvent, with debt far exceeding his capacity to generate operating profit, with assets far less valuable than the debts held against them.  He is the literal embodiment of the right-wing taking point that liberals are 'tax-and-spend' with no regard to public debt.

The retorts of "Biden would be worse!!!" are getting more and more hollow.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on September 30, 2020, 12:44:29 AM
Not a debate - a clusterfuk. I couldn't watch the asshole's off-the wall nonsense for more than a few minutes; he's like a two year old having a tantrum, no getting through to him. Completely  unmoderatable, non-stop blathering, couldn't shut his mouth even when Biden told him, "Will you shut up, man." That's when I left.

I'm baffled that anyone could vote for this completely narcissistic fool who has managed, among other things, to turn the USA into a country thought of with derision and pity on the world stage, and ripening for a civil war.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: bluebird on September 30, 2020, 03:13:51 AM
My 15 year old daughter just turned around after the first 5 minutes and said "what is happening?". I really felt bad. :(
That was absolutely nuts.
Oh well onward and upwards... No where to go but up...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 30, 2020, 07:27:51 AM
My 15 year old daughter just turned around after the first 5 minutes and said "what is happening?". I really felt bad. :(
That was absolutely nuts.
Oh well onward and upwards... No where to go but up...
That's what I sorta thought before RBG died. 2020 and Trump probably aren't finished with us just yet...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on September 30, 2020, 09:39:00 AM
Your punchline is really funny, John.  From what I gather they may be re-investigating Hillary's emails for the 8 millionth time--hard-hitting stuff.  Until Durham starts looking into the role of the New York FBI office in pushing Trump's candidacy(there's plenty of evidence of that, but they were helping Trump, so they're obviously just "patriots"), I'll just assume his investigation is another partisan Republican witch hunt. 
Glad I can keep you amused.

It is increasingly looking like Hillary planted the Russian collusion theme to distract attention from her email shenanigans.

Comey is testifying to senate committee (virtually) today. It will be interesting to hear his response to some new questions raised by information recently declassified.
 
Quote
EDIT:  And surely you'd like an investigation into Trump's finances, just to make sure no foreign entity happens to pay Trump money or relieve him of one of his excessive debts while coincidentally Trump uses his power as president to effect US policy to favor said entity?  Now that we're finally getting some insight into Trump's massive, personally guaranteed debts, I'd say that merits a much closer look.
President Trump was a business man so didn't engineer a history of tax returns designed to read well politically. He is not being accused of breaking any laws, just doing what typical business people do, not what typical politicians do.

JR

PS: Speaking about a peaceful transition of power, how do we characterize the 2016 never ending attack against the duly elected Trump administration by individuals inside government, including the failed impeachment attempt.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 30, 2020, 09:50:44 AM
Not a debate - a clusterfuk. I couldn't watch the asshole's off-the wall nonsense for more than a few minutes; he's like a two year old having a tantrum, no getting through to him. Completely  unmoderatable, non-stop blathering, couldn't shut his mouth even when Biden told him, "Will you shut up, man." That's when I left.


Please re-watch the debate. You missed all the propaganda talking points and attacks... which appear to be working on certain members here. I will have to be forcefully removed from my polling place to silence me if some jerk in military fatigues with a gun shows up(as Trump suggested/implied). I don't need a gun. I'm brave without one. Go ahead and shoot me, f*cker. Who's the snowflake now?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on September 30, 2020, 11:13:47 AM

con·serv·a·tive
/kənˈsərvədiv/

noun
a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics.

It is increasingly looking like Hillary planted the Russian collusion theme to distract attention from her email shenanigans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVVTZgwYwVo
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on September 30, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
President Trump was a business man so didn't engineer a history of tax returns designed to read well politically. He is not being accused of breaking any laws, just doing what typical business people do, not what typical politicians do.

More like a business-man actor. Like I wrote before, any half-wit would have been able to multiply the fortune Trump inherited, simply by putting it in an S&P 500 exchange traded fund and never touch it.

Instead he went from failure to failure, creating no real wealth, growth, innovation at all. Until he met a TV producer. And again, the money from that show went into more failing business ventures.

Under the light of day he's just an appaling failure and (using his words) "a total looser". It's truly cringeworthy.

And yes, there is ample ground to believe he broke several laws, let's see if he goes to trial after he looses in November. Given his personality profile he will probably share Epstein's fate.

Worst. President. Ever.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 30, 2020, 03:10:24 PM
Glad I can keep you amused.

It is increasingly looking like Hillary planted the Russian collusion theme to distract attention from her email shenanigans.
Conspiracy theory much? 

There's a man named Ockham.  He's got a razor that I think you should meet.  These defenses of Trump demand belief in a widespread conspiracy spanning both parties and numerous govt. agencies.  Mr. Ockham might suggest that it's far easier to believe the actual concrete evidence that a sleazy businessman surrounded himself with sleazy people and ran a sleazy presidential campaign, but that would be contrary to what you want to believe.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on September 30, 2020, 05:44:26 PM
Watched some clips of the debate,  if you can even call it that.  The system is obviously broken when you end up with these two as the top choices. Does anyone really feel that either is qualified to lead the country?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 30, 2020, 06:06:07 PM

 He is not being accused of breaking any laws,

Tax evasion could certainly be on the table though. 

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on September 30, 2020, 06:55:19 PM
including the failed impeachment attempt.

The impeachment was successful.  Trump is and always will be an impeached president.  He was not removed from office, which was the failure of the Senate.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on September 30, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
Does anyone really feel that either is qualified to lead the country?

Plenty of people say this every election. What truly makes it different this time? When the President of the United States refuses to call out White Supremacy groups and instead calls on White Supremacy militias (not the National Guard) to stand by, on national television, and it doesn’t instantly put chills in absolutely every American, let alone all leaders to condemn it immediately. What’s to come after election results are in? Damn.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on October 01, 2020, 05:18:33 PM
Plenty of people say this every election.

Unfortunately it has been true for a rather long time.  And a big part of the reason things are in such a mess as they are.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on October 01, 2020, 09:34:04 PM
Unfortunately it has been true for a rather long time.  And a big part of the reason things are in such a mess as they are.

I can't say I agree with the premise. Obama, the Clintons, Mitt Romney and John McCain were all qualified. Biden is qualified and will do fine, but he is indeed very old. It's pretty clear why so many people thought it must be him this year.

Bush was severly lacking in many ways and Trump is obviously not remotely qualified.

But even if it were true, it would qualify as a symptom, not the cause. There are a lot of causes big and small that contributed to the current mess.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on October 01, 2020, 11:23:49 PM
Unfortunately it has been true for a rather long time.  And a big part of the reason things are in such a mess as they are.

They are both unqualified in the same way as jaywalking and first degree murder are both crimes.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on October 02, 2020, 06:34:58 AM
They are both unqualified in the same way as jaywalking and first degree murder are both crimes.

Over here it is just a traffic violation.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 02, 2020, 07:58:13 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/trump-coronavirus-positive/index.html

May karma run its course...

Can we start calling it the "Republican Virus" now? Looks like the Nazi rallies in LaCrosse and Green Bay are off.

Can't wait to hear Trump making fun of Biden for wearing a mask at the next debate. HA!
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 05, 2020, 09:05:21 PM
Call the police and have all "Trump Army" poll watchers removed from YOUR local polling place.



edit: notice there is nowhere to sign up if you follow the link. Dog whistle?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 07, 2020, 06:29:17 AM
It's been 12 hours since Trump laid out his plan of extortion/blackmail, refusing to hear any discussion concerning C-19 relief... he'll deal with it if he gets "re-elected". That's GOTTA be illegal. Not that "law and order" matters anymore.  Goldman Sachs has publicly declared that a democratic sweep would be the fastest road to economic recovery. Jerome Powell, chairman of the federal reserve has warned of dire consequences without economic relief.  Anybody wondering where the guy who wrote "Art of the Deal" is on this one? What a businessman. He has knee-capped the economy. He has knee-capped the WH. Many of our top military leaders are in quarantine because of his reckless behavior... but Fox News' top article is about the Russian collusion HOAX(feel free to argue the definition, then refer to Miriam Webster: they make dictionaries)  AND Hillary's emails in case anyone is interested. Hey Republicans: HILLARY WAS NEVER PRESIDENT. The article concerning the Trump funding impasse didn't even show up until one hour ago and it's at least 10th in order/importance. They didn't even use his name the first time they published it. This ego-driven narcissist will crash our country into despair from Nov to Jan out of spite upon losing the election. He's going to outdo the Great Depression. Mark my words.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on October 07, 2020, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: @realDonaldTrump
Nancy Pelosi is asking for $2.4 Trillion Dollars to bailout poorly run, high crime, Democrat States, money that is in no way related to COVID-19...
As usual, this is an easily refutable, baldfaced LIE.

(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5eb8336ed8632d00076e9b7f/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on October 07, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
As usual, this is an easily refutable, baldfaced LIE.

You are using the previous stimulus data to make conclusions about a future stimulus,  which will not necessarily have the same distribution and allocation.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on October 07, 2020, 03:48:35 PM
So DHS’s latest official report released says violent white supremacy groups is the US’s great domestic threat right now. Note that it’s not the team-politics talking-point of BLM and ANTIFA and instead a part of Trump’s base. Can’t believe things like this actually have to be pointed out or that it still changes no one’s mind. Amazing.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on October 08, 2020, 11:37:45 AM
You are using the previous stimulus data to make conclusions about a future stimulus,  which will not necessarily have the same distribution and allocation.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.  There's no evidence what he says is true based on past results, nor is there any evidence that it will be any different in the future.  Hence, his statement is 100% untrue.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on October 08, 2020, 05:53:35 PM
Since my highly polarized Democratic brothers and sisters would never admit the following, I'll try for some good-vibe shrinkage:
Leaving Row vs Wade off the table for a moment, I was surprised and filled with cognitive dissonance at Pence's soft-spokenness and generally-decent candor during the debate. For all his foibles and social media's unanimous negative opinion of him, by appearances he seems to be a functioning adult. Strange as it is to say this, post debate I admit to being a little less fearful of him standing-in as president, should Trump succumb to covid. 

By all means, rip into the above sentiment. I'll still care for ya afterwards.    ;D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 08, 2020, 06:21:50 PM
 I respect your opinion, no diss from me Boji :)

FWIW, I thought the fly won the debate.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on October 08, 2020, 06:47:13 PM
Quote
I thought the fly won the debate.

Indeed the social media takeaway! Silver-haired helmet cursed by contrast.

If only politicians would answer questions directly.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on October 08, 2020, 06:59:27 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.  There's no evidence what he says is true based on past results, nor is there any evidence that it will be any different in the future.  Hence, his statement is 100% untrue.

That is not how logic and deductive reasoning work.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on October 08, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
Pence is probably a good, God fearing guy, doing absolutely whatever has to been done to eventually get to what he truly believes is best for America and the world, long-term, even if it means publicly being a great politician behind a cheat, liar, and narcissistic, mentally-ill man for a while. It seems he would absolutely love to completely intertwine religion and politics and truly believes that’s the right thing to do. But he’s up against people on the other extreme. Hopefully those at the very top who are suppose to ultimately interpret the law of the land will do so without inserting their own religious beliefs or fears.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on October 08, 2020, 07:05:50 PM
If only politicians would answer questions directly.

The VP debate seemed a step up from the previous one,  but that was a rather low bar,  so not saying much.

Nether seemed interested,  or capable, of answering the actual questions asked. Was it even a debate? More like scripted reading of prepared points and topics.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 08, 2020, 07:30:26 PM
Yep, sorry to fall back on the fly stuff, feeling lazy.  And don't really care tbh.

Both avoided answering questions.  Pence maybe slightly more so?   
But Pence was the one that needed to have a 'bigly' win to turn things around any.
Harris just needed to hold her own and not loose.  I think she did that more or less.

From what I've seen of polls, women in general seem to have thought Harris won.  It doesn't seem that they appreciated his 'CEO talking to a subordinate'  approach.  Her "I'm speaking" reinforced that.   He was somewhat condescending in my limited male opinion,  but I'll leave it to more qualified humans to make a better determination.

Again, I don't think I care enough.   It's all now just a f**king joke and a farce. 
Trump is down in the polls but, being Trump, he still might win.

"It is what it is"




 


Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on October 08, 2020, 09:31:43 PM

From what I've seen of polls, women in general seem to have thought Harris won.  It doesn't seem that they appreciated his 'CEO talking to a subordinate'  approach.  Her "I'm speaking" reinforced that.   He was somewhat condescending in my limited male opinion,

Pence talked over Harris extensively, talked over the female moderator quite a bit as well.  Women (and some men) get what's going on. 
And there's a lot of men (some of them here)  who will, for instance, give Kavanaugh a pass for screeching "I like beer" in his confirmation hearing, and yet characterize Harris as "mean" or "angry" for doing her job as a Senator and asking tough questions that make weasels like Bill Barr squirm in their seats. 

Harris walked a fine line in the debate--if a woman raises her voice she's "shrill," if she shows emotional vulnerability she's "weak."  If her responses are too pointed (if she'd even once said anything like what Trump spewed in the first debate) she's "radical" and "angry." 

It's easy to forget that Pence has a long career in govt., which wouldn't have happened if he couldn't act the part.  He looks good because of lowered expectations.  But he's a young-earther, and that pretty much disqualifies him in my book.  He may not be stupid, but he's certainly delusional. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on October 09, 2020, 06:44:18 AM
Trump is truly unhingend at the moment, maybe the steroids have something to do with it...

“I’m back because I am perfect physical specimen and I'm extremely young, and so I am lucky in that way.”

Obese 74 year old with a heart condition (and maybe recent stroke) as well as current Covid-19 talking.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on October 09, 2020, 10:06:01 AM
Trump is truly unhingend at the moment, maybe the steroids have something to do with it...

“I’m back because I am perfect physical specimen and I'm extremely young, and so I am lucky in that way.”

Obese 74 year old with a heart condition (and maybe recent stroke) as well as current Covid-19 talking.
I agree - stop the dexamethasone (which he doesn't need anyway). Besides the underlying narcissistic personality disorder, steroid hypomania has broken out - in his case, bordering on actual mania. In addition to all the domestic law-and-order and other issues that can go off the rails, I hope that no foreign adversary threatens a war against the US.

Long-discounted  mid  20th-century  studies  by  Rome  and Braceland and  Garner  and  Falk
suggested  that  the  occurrence  of  corticosteroid-induced  psychiatric  reactions  depended
on the patient’s premorbid personality organizations. Brody also suggested that these reactions
reflected an extreme  version  of  a  patient’s  usual  stress  reaction.


https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11)61160-9/pdf
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 09, 2020, 10:06:56 AM
Pence talked over Harris extensively ...

I only quoted the beginning of your reply for brevity, but, on reflection, I see what you mean and agree with you.
I hadn't thought about how measured Harris would have had to play this in order to avoid misogynistic criticism.

My boss for 7 years was a woman from whom I learned a lot.  Never once was her gender an issue for me, so maybe I'm a little blind to how others might see a female leader?       
 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 09, 2020, 10:17:11 AM
Just heard a clip from last night on Fox of Trump complaining of hundreds of gallons of water being sent to California for little fish?   Are these little fish too dry?

Supposed to be an interview tonight where he gets a medical evaluation live on air!    Is he going to be stripped down to his Y-Fronts and string vest?

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on October 09, 2020, 10:17:34 AM

Brody also suggested that these reactions
reflected an extreme  version  of  a  patient’s  usual  stress  reaction.


https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11)61160-9/pdf

That's a frightening thought.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 09, 2020, 03:57:13 PM
Breaking:
Mike Pompeo says on Fox that he's working on getting Hilary's emails and all the information regarding them released before the election!

How will her campaign survive?


 ::)



Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on October 09, 2020, 05:20:57 PM
That is not how logic and deductive reasoning work.
So your theory is, we must conceive of the possibility that all the previous stimulus bills were spread out amongst the 50 states, however all of the future stimulus bills will only be targeted to blue states with Democratic governors?  Therefore Trump statement was definitely true?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on October 09, 2020, 07:22:49 PM
Therefore Trump statement was definitely true?

Of course not.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on October 17, 2020, 12:54:46 PM
In spite of everything, 2020 could be the best year yet.

“I shouldn’t joke because you know what? Running against the worst candidate in the history of presidential politics puts pressure on me. Could you imagine if I lose? My whole life, what am I going to do? I’m going to say ‘I lost to the worst candidate in the history of politics.’ I’m not going to feel so good."

“Maybe I’ll have to leave the country? I don’t know.”




Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on October 17, 2020, 03:16:56 PM

“Maybe I’ll have to leave the country? I don’t know.”[/i]

What he's really thinking:  "Maybe I'll leave the country to avoid prosecution and multiple lawsuits?  I don't know."
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on October 17, 2020, 06:56:17 PM


“Maybe I’ll have to leave the country? I don’t know.”[/i]

Trump Tower Branson MO. That’s the move. That’s his people. He could do two shows a day.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: bluebird on October 17, 2020, 07:20:20 PM
LOL. Paul, I had to login just to laugh at that... ;D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on October 17, 2020, 08:21:59 PM
LOL. Paul, I had to login just to laugh at that... ;D

I said that right after the election and it went unremarked upon. I think it’s funny but I’m only half joking. He’s persona non grata in NYC. He’s also broke so he’s got to work.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on October 18, 2020, 10:03:28 AM
Soundtoys


https://www.soundtoys.com/vote-2020/?utm_source=Master+List&utm_campaign=b6c835825e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_09_14_05_06_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bbd3e23605-b6c835825e-81634821&mc_cid=b6c835825e&mc_eid=6aec20eef7
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on October 18, 2020, 09:48:28 PM
New campaign "vote for your life" for easily scared young people. There are some slick persuasion experts working this time.

JR

 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on October 19, 2020, 02:45:10 AM
It should be pointed out that I see it just as much on both sides and certainly not scared young people, but instead, equally across the age ranged. You’re right, they’re so slick that it might be working so well on us, we refuse to simply look at ourselves to ask if it’s working on me. It’s always someone else.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 19, 2020, 06:55:06 AM
New campaign "vote for your life" for easily scared young people. There are some slick persuasion experts working this time.

JR

My previous life is gone. In order to maintain my previous health insurance, it will cost $26,500/yr out-of-pocket before even a penny is covered by insurance. I'm not scared. Nor are these "young people" you reference. "Slick persuasion expert" must be a another Merriam-Webster definition for people realizing they are getting f*cked by a party who believes in no regulations to protect the common person... isn't there a New York Post article you're dying to push?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Banzai on October 19, 2020, 06:57:35 AM
Breaking: Doesn't matter who you vote for. Nothing will change. It never does.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 19, 2020, 07:09:24 AM
Breaking: Doesn't matter who you vote for. Nothing will change. It never does.

I have watched things change considerably across the past 35 years. The percentage of taxes that large corporations pay has changed immensely. The divide between the rich and the poor has widened. I could go on and on, but think there is no need. I feel your message is dangerous by influencing people to not vote. VOTE. It should be compulsory. Trump would have never had a chance to divide our country if this were the case. VOTE.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on October 19, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
I have watched things change considerably across the past 35 years........The divide between the rich and the poor has widened.........

I agree with you.  But during this time both parties have had their chance in power and both widened the divide.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Banzai on October 20, 2020, 01:54:47 PM
I have watched things change considerably across the past 35 years. The percentage of taxes that large corporations pay has changed immensely. The divide between the rich and the poor has widened. I could go on and on, but think there is no need. I feel your message is dangerous by influencing people to not vote. VOTE. It should be compulsory. Trump would have never had a chance to divide our country if this were the case. VOTE.
You've watched 35 years of things getting progressively worse under Blue and Red governments.

That's not change. It's continuation.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 21, 2020, 10:30:53 AM
Of course it's perfectly normal that Trump has a secret bank account in China.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on October 21, 2020, 11:20:46 AM
Of course it's perfectly normal that Trump has a secret bank account in China.
It's a corporate bank acct. Per the NYT: 

In 2017, the company [Trump International Hotels Management] reported an unusually large spike in revenue — some $17.5 million, more than the previous five years’ combined. It was accompanied by a $15.1 million withdrawal by Mr. Trump from the company’s capital account.

That doesn't look suspect at all, does it?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 21, 2020, 01:26:00 PM


That doesn't look suspect at all, does it?

It sure doesn't.  Nothing to see here at all...

 ???   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on October 21, 2020, 01:49:54 PM
One thing about lying Trump is that he has a strong tell. If he's accusing his opponent of something you can bet he's been doing exactly what the accusation is. That way he can say the made up stuff about his opponent it much worse than what he completely denies.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on October 21, 2020, 02:57:40 PM
If he's accusing his opponent of something you can bet he's been doing exactly what the accusation is.
What I can't wait to hear is a) how it's actually Obama's fault, and b) how Hunter Biden is implicated.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on October 21, 2020, 04:33:10 PM
All I have to do is call up the head of every Wall Street firm, head of every major company, the head of every major energy company, ‘Do me a favor, send me $10 million for my campaign.’ ‘Yes, sir.’ They say the only thing is, ‘Why didn't you ask for more, sir?’

Don't forget, I'm not bad at that stuff anyway, and I'm president. So I call some guy, the head of Exxon. I call the head of Exxon. I don't know,” How are you doing? How’s energy coming? When are you doing the exploration? Oh, you need a couple of permits?”. When I call the head of Exxon I say, ‘You know, I'd love [for you] to send me $25 million for the campaign.’ ‘Absolutely sir.’
 I will hit a home run every single call. I would raise a billion dollars in one day if I wanted to. I don't want to do that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmfVTOnfWos

The way things work.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on October 21, 2020, 06:36:30 PM

The way things work.
Quid. Pro. Quo.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on October 21, 2020, 09:00:22 PM
Quid. Pro. Quo.
I think the reason he "doesn't want to" (can't) do it is because the quidgivers aren't very confident he'll be around to give them their quo.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on October 22, 2020, 09:44:07 AM
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/10/19/2008530117 (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/10/19/2008530117)

My takeaway: We each have different maps for word association depending on political persuasion, and I read the article to imply shifts in perspective mainly occur to senders, not recipients-- One's self bias gets strengthened out of efforts to persuade.
 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on October 22, 2020, 11:35:29 AM
Dutch 'Ethical' Hacker Logs Into Trump's Twitter Acount:
https://www.volkskrant.nl/cs-badaa815   &

https://dutchreview.com/news/dutch-hacker-guesses-trumps-twitter-password-in-7-tries/


Meanwhile, in other news:

"HILARY'S EMAILS!"
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on October 22, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
Dutch 'Ethical' Hacker Logs Into Trump's Twitter Acount:
(https://content.spiceworksstatic.com/service.community/p/post_images/0000340931/5c2fd03e/attached_image/C5NWwBkWIAAu02z.jpg)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on October 28, 2020, 01:25:12 AM
Getting real, real tired of the data monopolies telling citizens what is ok to think or what is permissible to see.

https://articlesofunity.org/2020/08/unity2020-has-been-banned-on-twitter/ (https://articlesofunity.org/2020/08/unity2020-has-been-banned-on-twitter/)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 30, 2020, 08:33:14 AM
If anyone is brandishing a firearm arm at your local polling place, outwardly harass them vocally while calling the police to file a charge of voter intimidation. A few martyrs might put this nonsensical BS to an end. WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY?! When it all breaks down, fortunately the “3 percenters” and other geniuses like them advertise where they live. That will make solving the problem much easier. Let’s hope for an uneventful Election Day and peaceful transfer of the executive branch to the appropriate recipient. BRANDISHING A WEAPON AS INTIMIDATION IS  A CRIME. PERIOD.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on October 30, 2020, 10:34:15 AM
Getting real, real tired of the data monopolies telling citizens what is ok to think or what is permissible to see.

https://articlesofunity.org/2020/08/unity2020-has-been-banned-on-twitter/ (https://articlesofunity.org/2020/08/unity2020-has-been-banned-on-twitter/)

I was reading the 'articles of unity' plan etc and thinking it was kind of interesting (though not original). Then I saw they were supporting Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Crenshaw. Are you kidding me! Made me laugh out loud.

I don't know enough about their situation with twitter to say anything about it.

The weaponization of disinformation and bad faith messaging in politics however is a terrible problem. I don't know how it can be turned around. When people continue to believe the stupid attacks (pizzagate etc...) and make it effective by electing terrible leaders. These events have real consequences for people - making their lives worse.

But censorship just isn't going to work - whether it is government or corporate. That will probably make it worse, as it makes people wonder what they are trying to hide.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Gold on October 30, 2020, 11:14:33 AM
If anyone is brandishing a firearm arm at your local polling place, outwardly harass them vocally while calling the police to file a charge of voter intimidation. A few martyrs might put this nonsensical BS to an end. WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY?! When it all breaks down, fortunately the “3 percenters” and other geniuses like them advertise where they live. That will make solving the problem much easier. Let’s hope for an uneventful Election Day and peaceful transfer of the executive branch to the appropriate recipient. BRANDISHING A WEAPON AS INTIMIDATION IS  A CRIME. PERIOD.


I was thinking the thing to do would be to monitor the monitors. Stand 6” away with a video camera all day.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on October 30, 2020, 11:22:42 AM
This is definitely *not* quid pro quo.  Just because there is the appearance of impropriety is no reason to be suspicious.  Just because it is both walking and quacking like a duck.....

A multi-billion dollar private equity firm whose subsidiary was awarded two special permits by the Trump Administration to haul hazardous liquified natural gas (LNG), including by rail along Florida’s east coast, apparently forgave more than $100 million in debt owed by President Trump.

https://www.floridabulldog.org/2020/09/fortress-forgave-huge-trump-loan-got-us-permits-transport-lng-rail/ (https://www.floridabulldog.org/2020/09/fortress-forgave-huge-trump-loan-got-us-permits-transport-lng-rail/)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on October 31, 2020, 06:34:50 PM
Republicans, this is who you stand with.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-camp-cancels-austin-texas-event-after-pro-trump-ambush-on-campaign-bus
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on October 31, 2020, 07:37:27 PM
Quote
Then I saw they were supporting Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Crenshaw. Are you kidding me! Made me laugh out loud.

They could be pushing batman for all I care; it's the idea that if it doesn't make Biden look good on twitter it needs to go.  When big data strips rights to a free press, most won't blink if the censorship aligns with politics.

Quote
Republicans, this is who you stand with.
You can read the link's directed narrative or watch the video, which shows an suv driving into a stupid trump truck's lane.   ::)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on October 31, 2020, 07:59:32 PM
Quote
I was reading the 'articles of unity' plan etc and thinking it was kind of interesting (though not original). Then I saw they were supporting Tulsi Gabbard and Dan Crenshaw. Are you kidding me! Made me laugh out loud.

Tulsi would get my vote In a heart beat.  No laughing! She is a real patriot and handled Harris (the real preferred DNC presidential candidate ) that couldn't even make it to Iowa. Face it the people don't like Harris.  Talk about a joke, and she will be president if Biden makes it.    Tulsi loves the Country which is one of the Unity 2020 requirements.  Harris loves Harris and the idea of the Harris administration.   

The only problem with unity 2020 is their candidates won't play ball with the 2 parties so we get two terrible choices from the Dems and Pubs.  Thats all they've ever offered. 

Like you said DMP,  break up the monopolies like Teddy the Trust Buster.   IMO Harris will never touch the propaganda machine of the party.     
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: pucho812 on October 31, 2020, 08:46:49 PM
You can read the link's directed narrative or watch the video, which shows an suv driving into a stupid trump truck's lane.   ::)

I saw the video. looks to me like there SUV tried to change lanes and the truck was in their blind spot. A common driving mishap just about everywhere.  in turn the suv hit the truck and pulled away. again a common driving mishap especially in L.A. where we have over 10 million people in the county.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 01, 2020, 06:17:01 AM
I saw the video. looks to me like there SUV tried to change lanes and the truck was in their blind spot. A common driving mishap just about everywhere.  in turn the suv hit the truck and pulled away. again a common driving mishap especially in L.A. where we have over 10 million people in the county.

Not sure what your point is... Nice attempt at a re-direct. A bunch of Republican Trumpers tried to stop Biden's campaign bus. Some of them were wielding semi-automatic rifles. What was the next step? Hand-shaking? I think you should become a traffic cop whose "privilege"(it's clearly not a right in this country) to vote should be revoked. OBVIOUSLY, you missed(didn't want to see) the body of the story. I can't imagine why everything is so out-of-control in this country... probably because people can look beyond the real issue at hand and worry about a traffic incident. SINCE WHEN DOES THE POLITICAL OPPOSITION SURROUND AND OVERTAKE THE OTHER WHILE ARMED? What the actual f*ck? Stand tall, Republicans. Maybe your "boys" will kill Biden before he's elected. 'Murica.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 02, 2020, 03:38:04 PM
Face it the people don't like Harris. 
You don't like Harris.  I like Harris.  Weak men who can't handle intelligent, strong, assertive women don't like Harris.   Most of what the right says about her is that she's mean and scary--utterly pathetic, sexist garbage. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: L´Andratté on November 02, 2020, 03:59:44 PM
You don't like Harris.  I like Harris.  Weak men who can't handle intelligent, strong, assertive women don't like Harris.   Most of what the right says about her is that she's mean and scary--utterly pathetic, sexist garbage.

Wow, there are other reasons to not like her. There are reasons to not like Biden.
Both are deep in the pocket of private equity, both passed their share of inhuman
law.
Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, big step forward for racial equality and civilisation in general!
War On Drugs, anyone? Big success. For the drug lords, arms manufacturers and undertakers.
Julian Assange a terrorist, for leaking american atrocities in Iraq to newspapers?
Right on, great nation.
Too lazy to go on.

Funny thing you never hear those points mentioned by Republicans, for a reason.
They rely more on batsh*t crazy...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 02, 2020, 04:10:26 PM
Like you said DMP,  break up the monopolies like Teddy the Trust Buster.
This will never happen with a weak government, and the Republican party has been adamantly focused on weakening the government since Reagan. Saying the government is the problem, championing de-regulation, etc
Who is left to rule with a weak government?  An oligarchy of the wealthy.

Their appointments to the courts are much more focused on undermining government strength than any of the social issues, guns, abortion, etc...    I wouldn't be surprised if political operatives on the Republican side act to KEEP the social issues in play so they can mobilize the voters with them. 



Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 02, 2020, 04:22:31 PM
Wow, there are other reasons to not like her. There are reasons to not like Biden.

I don't see any reason to mention the issues when Republicans are unable to deal with the fact that she's a strong, assertive (and did I mention brown?) woman.  If we can't get past "She was so mean to Bill Barr!", what's the point in even mentioning her stance on issues? 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 02, 2020, 04:42:41 PM
it's the idea that if it doesn't make Biden look good on twitter it needs to go.  When big data strips rights to a free press, most won't blink if the censorship aligns with politics.
But that's not what's happening.  The end of free speech is not coming about because platforms are trying to develop ways to stop weaponized propoganda based on total lies. The right to free speech does not extend to media platforms anyway.

"big data" is a nice buzzword, but that context doesn't make any sense. Big data is creating a easily utilized database that can track and monetize everything about people.
The actions of the media platforms, however, are controlled by a wealthy small group of Capitalists, who also coincidentally are making the US an oligarchy.

Seeing how Republicans played out pizzagate and other conspiracy theories in 2008-2016 and then tried the same thing with the Hunter Biden garbage this year, it seems lies are necessary for Republican success. True?

And some people don't see any problem with a bunch of yahoo Trump supporters with guns trying to harass and intimidate a Biden bus in Texas? Wow.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 02, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
I don't see any reason to mention the issues when Republicans are unable to deal with the fact that she's a strong, assertive (and did I mention brown?) woman.  If we can't get past "She was so mean to Bill Barr!", what's the point in even mentioning her stance on issues? 

The point is some of us want candidates who have principles,  integrity,  and not wall st sellouts.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 02, 2020, 05:15:01 PM
Does this imply the big opposing candidates do? If so, the topic subject is definitely right on.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 02, 2020, 05:35:52 PM
wall st sellouts.
It's not possible to compete unless the rules of the game are changed.  Right now the best we can do is vote for the least awful

It is mindnumbing that anyone is ragging on Democrats when the last several years of actions by Trump and the Republicans are orders of magnitude more corrupt.

Like the Constitution and principles of free speech, religion, press, assembly, and redress? Trump has attacked and threatened the press. He's attacked non-Christian members of Congress. He cleared hundreds of peaceful protestors in Lafayette square.
Trump called on his AG and Justice Dept. to investigate and arrest his political rival with Biden. The list of his corruption and outright crimes is long.



 

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 02, 2020, 06:42:54 PM
It's not possible to compete unless the rules of the game are changed.  Right now the best we can do is vote for the least awful.

Yes,  it is a choice between awful and less awful,  either way we will be worse off in 4 years.  But it doesn't have to be this way.  There was a non-awful candidate 4 years ago.  And there were non-awful candidates in the primary this year. There are non-awful candidates in the general election. But the establishment always conspires against them. So why do you think the establishment will ever change the rules? No need to as long as people continue supporting them. The cycle will continue until people finally demand,  and vote for non -awful candidates.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 02, 2020, 07:23:44 PM
People accepting awful candidates just because they play for their team is a good reason Trump won in the first place.  Many people got fed up having to constantly pick from awful establishment candidate #1 vs awful establishment candidate #2. So they rolled the dice with a non -establishment guy.  So those of you who supported awful establishment candidates in 2016 inadvertently helped get Trump elected. Think about that for a bit.

And he would win again this year if not for the staggering incompetence in handling covid.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 02, 2020, 08:40:28 PM
And that guy was Donald Trump? Really? Really? Were his voters in bunkers his entire 2016 campaign and came out to vote for him? Then, have since enjoyed the sun, but have been blinded by it this entire time?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 02, 2020, 10:26:01 PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 02, 2020, 10:47:39 PM
People accepting awful candidates just because they play for their team is a good reason Trump won in the first place.
Don't forget that the right spent 25 years vilifying Hillary Clinton, which was as much a factor in Trump's victory as Trump himself was (and most of the vilifying was either completely false or making mountains out of molehills.)  And also don't forget that "winner" Donald Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million--and that was with help from the Russians, as well as years of GOP vote suppression measures. 

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on November 02, 2020, 10:54:20 PM
And also don't forget that "winner" Donald Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million--

I saw a thing like a Dear Abby  that kinda pointed out if we did have a United Countries of the World or something along those lines, China or India would be calling the shots with this type of thinking.....
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 02, 2020, 11:00:12 PM
You don't like Harris.  I like Harris.  Weak men who can't handle intelligent, strong, assertive women don't like Harris.   Most of what the right says about her is that she's mean and scary--utterly pathetic, sexist garbage.
. Harris was chosen by The dnc not the people .   She dropped out early because no money no support.   Now she’s next in line for president not because of people support.   It’s fixed and a terrible non choice.  But what else is new with these 2 parties.   She’s the Manchurian candidate and did not earn the position.   That’s my problem .
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 02, 2020, 11:00:15 PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

You said they rolled the dice on with a non-establishment guy.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 02, 2020, 11:12:00 PM
. Harris was chosen by The dnc not the people .   She dropped out early because no money no support.   Now she’s next in line for president not because of people support.   It’s fixed and a terrible non choice.  But what else is new with these 2 parties.   She’s the Manchurian candidate and did not earn the position.   That’s my problem .

More of the topic subject of this thread. Well done... One can make that case all day long on both sides, for the presidency as well, every election, deep into history.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 02, 2020, 11:59:48 PM
More of the topic subject of this thread. Well done... One can make that case all day long on both sides, for the presidency as well, every election, deep into history.

Yes that could be true.   God bless this mess. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 03, 2020, 12:10:36 AM
. Harris was chosen by The dnc not the people .   She dropped out early because no money no support.   Now she’s next in line for president not because of people support.   It’s fixed and a terrible non choice.  But what else is new with these 2 parties.   She’s the Manchurian candidate and did not earn the position.   That’s my problem .
Who wanted J. Danforth Quayle as VP?  Or Sarah Palin?  Or Joe Lieberman?  Spiro Agnew?  VPs are selected, not elected, and it's been that way for a mighty long time.  Teddy Roosevelt wasn't a popular choice for VP either,  but he turned out to be a far better president than most.  So I guess what I'm saying is, so what?  I'm sorry you don't like Harris, but she's a far more qualified and sane choice than many who have gone before her--in both parties. 

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 03:03:36 AM
You said they rolled the dice on with a non-establishment guy.

Yes.  What don't you agree with?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: ruffrecords on November 03, 2020, 03:09:11 AM
Today is election day in the US. Good luck to all my friends on the other side of the pond. I think you may need it.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 03:57:34 AM
Yes.  What don't you agree with?

That was the guy, of all guys/gals, voters decided was the best non-establishment person? Really? I mean really, really-really? Are talking about the same guy? Is this mic on? Can you hear yourself? I don’t understand this logic.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 04:29:28 AM
That was the guy, of all guys/gals, voters decided was the best non-establishment person? Really? I mean really, really-really? Is this mic on? Can you hear yourself? I don’t understand this logic.

Huh? You seem to not be grasping the point.  In 2016 you had choice A)  Clinton (awful and establishment) against choice B)  Trump (potentially awful but not establishment).. Given that situation it shouldn't be a shock that many voters decided to roll the dice with choice B.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 04:30:56 AM
Today is election day in the US. Good luck to all my friends on the other side of the pond. I think you may need it.

Cheers

Ian

Thanks Ian.

We may indeed need it.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 04:40:57 AM
Huh? You seem to not be grasping the point.  In 2016 you had choice A)  Clinton (awful and establishment) against choice B)  Trump (potentially awful but not establishment).. Given that situation it shouldn't be a shock that many voters decided to roll the dice with choice B.

Nor you mine? How did he get there in the first place?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: ruffrecords on November 03, 2020, 04:44:58 AM
I recently looked at a political map of the USA. Looks like the two coasts are largely Democrat and the centre is largely Republican. Is that similar to the North South divide here in the UK?

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 03, 2020, 05:35:23 AM
I recently looked at a political map of the USA. Looks like the two coasts are largely Democrat and the centre is largely Republican. Is that similar to the North South divide here in the UK?

Cheers

Ian

Come on.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: ruffrecords on November 03, 2020, 06:51:54 AM
Come on.
Sorry, you lost me. Care to be a little more explicit for this 70 year old duffer?

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 03, 2020, 07:22:46 AM
The point is some of us want candidates who have principles,  integrity,  and not wall st sellouts.

I believe there should be salary and asset "caps" for publicly elected officials. I'm not sure how to get there, but it could help remove big business influence on politics.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 03, 2020, 07:59:59 AM
Yes,  it is a choice between awful and less awful,  either way we will be worse off in 4 years.  But it doesn't have to be this way.  There was a non-awful candidate 4 years ago.  And there were non-awful candidates in the primary this year. There are non-awful candidates in the general election. But the establishment always conspires against them. So why do you think the establishment will ever change the rules? No need to as long as people continue supporting them. The cycle will continue until people finally demand,  and vote for non -awful candidates.

Half the people who are voting in the election today didn't vote in the primary. So vote in the primary if you want a better choice in the general. The person I voted for in the primary didn't made it to the general in 2016 or 2020. But you pick who you think will be better. I saw the Democrat as MUCH less awful than Trump, in 2016 and now. In fact, I disagree that things will be worse off in 4 years, but time will tell.
I don't see third party candidates in the general election as the way to demand non-awful candidates. That is throwing away your vote and strengthens the two party system (particularly strategic from the GOP side, with planted candidates like Kanye).
So if you want to demand better candidates, vote in the primary, don't throw away your vote in the general. Learn about the state and local officials and try to put in better candidates from the ground up.

And realize that any genuine, good candidate is going to be attacked and smeared by the establishment to no end, so be very cautious in believing them.

2016 had 100 million eligible voters stay home.  It looks like there's gonna be record turnout today with ~160 million votes possibly.

Happy election day.

P.S. How has Dick Cheney not been mentioned in this diatribe on VPs? Called the most powerful VP by historians, and serving with a poorly qualified Republican President that lost the popular vote, and was installed by a partisan 5-4 court decision. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 03, 2020, 09:09:12 AM
Sorry, you lost me. Care to be a little more explicit for this 70 year old duffer?

Cheers

Ian

No disrespect, but this divide between the "coastal elites" and the "flyover states"/"bible belt" has been baked in for decades and is such common knowledge to any political observer of US politics that the way you mentioned it amounts to "did you know the gras was green?". ;-)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 09:32:06 AM

Quote
How has Dick Cheney not been mentioned in this diatribe on VPs? Called the most powerful VP by historians, and serving with a poorly qualified Republican President


Yes another VP Acting as president By non choice.

Oh did I tell how I can’t stand Harris.  And the Harris administration after Joe is removed with the 25th amendment.  I guess it’s nice to have friends in low places.   

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 03, 2020, 09:47:17 AM
And the Harris administration after Joe is removed with the 25th amendment.

Come on.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 09:51:18 AM
I saw a thing like a Dear Abby  that kinda pointed out if we did have a United Countries of the World or something along those lines, China or India would be calling the shots with this type of thinking.....


This is the most interesting comment on the past couple of pages Scott.   

The popular vote is relative to a one world government and the population of the countries in the world.   The propaganda of 1642 project and America was never great.  We can only expect 1% growth from this point on.  Critical race theory.  You name it its propaganda to demoralize pride of country. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 09:53:14 AM
Come on.

Now you sound like Joe.  Come on Man.  You ain’t black if you don’t vote for me.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 03, 2020, 10:03:15 AM
Going back to the Trump supporters and the Biden Bus.

More info is coming out about this - the group of Trump supporters organized in social media to go after the Biden bus. Firearms. Premeditated. Violent.

If you were saying the Trump group wasn't doing anything wrong and that the media was trying to push a made up narrative, etc...  maybe re-assess YOUR prior beliefs that led to such a reaction to the video. 

I don't think the USA or Americans need this kind of violent extremism.
We don't need a President that voices his support for violent extremist acts like this (Trump: "these patriots did nothing wrong")

It's time to for a change.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 03, 2020, 10:10:10 AM
Who wanted J. Danforth Quayle as VP?  Or Sarah Palin?  Or Joe Lieberman?  Spiro Agnew?  VPs are selected, not elected, and it's been that way for a mighty long time.  Teddy Roosevelt wasn't a popular choice for VP either,  but he turned out to be a far better president than most.  So I guess what I'm saying is, so what?  I'm sorry you don't like Harris, but she's a far more qualified and sane choice than many who have gone before her--in both parties.
I really liked Joe Lieberman, he was liberal but thoughtful and sensible. As I recall he got cancelled by his own party because he was too friendly toward the opposition. 

Indeed VP are generally selected support weakness in a given ticket. Sen Harris does not fit that stereotype since CA is solidly democratic, so she is there for some other reason. I won't speculate.

I haven't voted yet... decisions decisions...  ;D ;D  You guys are running out of time to change my mind. ::)

My polling place is about a hundred yards away, so I am waiting for traffic to slow down. It was pretty busy at 7AM. Some people are working. The logging trucks never stopped, they go past my house loaded with logs in both directions so more than one local lumber mill operating. I guess people still need toilet paper.

JR

 

 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 03, 2020, 10:39:21 AM

I haven't voted yet... decisions decisions...  ;D ;D  You guys are running out of time to change my mind. ::)

JR

You mean Cindy Hyde Smith's embarrassing debate performance didn't change your mind already?  If you cared about having a competent Senator rather than a Republican one, you'd vote for Espy.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 10:43:17 AM
Going back to the Trump supporters and the Biden Bus.

More info is coming out about this - the group of Trump supporters organized in social media to go after the Biden bus. Firearms. Premeditated. Violent.

If you were saying the Trump group wasn't doing anything wrong and that the media was trying to push a made up narrative, etc...  maybe re-assess YOUR prior beliefs that led to such a reaction to the video. 

I don't think the USA or Americans need this kind of violent extremism.
We don't need a President that voices his support for violent extremist acts like this (Trump: "these patriots did nothing wrong")

It's time to for a change.

As well as burning court houses broken windows .  Large groups of protesters in a Covid epidemic.  Tear down history.   Brown shirt antifa tactics .  Systemic racism tactics all led from internet sites that tell were the riot is tonight.   Cancel culture.   Maybe all this is one in the same with the unhappy people of the lockdown era. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 03, 2020, 10:51:15 AM
As well as burning court houses broken windows .  Large groups of protesters in a Covid epidemic.  Tear down history.   Brown shirt antifa tactics .  Systemic racism tactics all led from internet sites that tell were the riot is tonight.   Cancel culture.   Maybe all this is one in the same with the unhappy people of the lockdown era.

You play the "they're all the same card", pretending neutrality, but here it becomes clear you're just one more consumer of right-wing online propaganda.

Let's just stop it here. We won't change anything by posting...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 03, 2020, 11:06:51 AM
You mean Cindy Hyde Smith's embarrassing debate performance didn't change your mind already?  If you cared about having a competent Senator rather than a Republican one, you'd vote for Espy.
They both have track records and are well known by voters here...

Sounds like you want to vote in MS too...

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Quote
Let's just stop it here. We won't change anything by posting...

Agreed.  Have a good evening livingsounds dmp and the rest of this diy herd.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on November 03, 2020, 12:04:03 PM
Quote
You play the "they're all the same card", pretending neutrality, but here it becomes clear you're just one more consumer of right-wing online propaganda.

Glass houses, man.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 12:09:16 PM

Yes another VP Acting as president By non choice.

Oh did I tell how I can’t stand Harris.  And the Harris administration after Joe is removed with the 25th amendment.  I guess it’s nice to have friends in low places.

And yet again with staying on the topic subject. You’re on on roll. I swear I’m listening to the 24-hour “news” right now.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 12:27:38 PM
I haven't voted yet... decisions decisions...  ;D ;D  You guys are running out of time to change my mind. ::)

Exactly. In today’s world, I honestly don’t understand all the ads, the debates, and these people at town hall meetings saying they’re an undecided voter. Who are they really fooling? Apparently plenty.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 12:45:19 PM
As well as burning court houses broken windows .  Large groups of protesters in a Covid epidemic.  Tear down history.   Brown shirt antifa tactics .  Systemic racism tactics all led from internet sites that tell were the riot is tonight.   Cancel culture.   Maybe all this is one in the same with the unhappy people of the lockdown era.

I don’t understand refusing to call out bad behavior from one side and instead reply with listing bad behavior from the other side. People have really learned to mimic politicians and 24-hour “news” very well!
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 01:16:58 PM
Nor you mine? How did he get there in the first place?

There wasn't exactly a plethora to choose from. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 03, 2020, 01:33:27 PM
Glass houses, man.

If that is directed at me I wonder how you would arrive at that conclusion. I do live outside the US media bubble.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 01:47:18 PM
I don’t understand refusing to call out bad behavior from one side and instead reply with listing bad behavior from the other side. People have really learned to mimic politicians and 24-hour “news” very well!

Ya that’s seems to be going around a lot when you condemn one side and praise the other as solutions like there is no middle ground.   Monkey see monkey do.  Identity politics And what-about-ism seem to be the way this thread goes. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 01:49:34 PM
My polling place is about a hundred yards away

Might have you beat on that one.  Walked across the street yesterday....and dropped off my mail in ballot. Seemed unnecessary given how uncrowded it was.

It was actually the easiest time I've ever voted.  Places here have been open for days now. I've seen the steadyy stream of traffic out my window, but never gotten too crowded . Contrast this with the same place during the primary where people needed to wait hours,  makes you wonder why voting isn't always like this.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 02:15:13 PM
I do live outside the US media bubble.

I'm curious where you get  your US news and information from, there are highly biased sources on both sides.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 03, 2020, 03:23:48 PM
Might have you beat on that one.  Walked across the street yesterday....and dropped off my mail in ballot. Seemed unnecessary given how uncrowded it was.
My post office is literally across the street from me in the other direction.

My daily newspaper delivery has been really spotty  (2-3 late papers every week lately)... not sure I trust the USPS as much as voting in person. Hopefully the on time delivery will improve after this mail in vote drama passes. (note: the papers have been on time last two days in a row.)
Quote
It was actually the easiest time I've ever voted.  Places here have been open for days now. I've seen the steadyy stream of traffic out my window, but never gotten too crowded . Contrast this with the same place during the primary where people needed to wait hours,  makes you wonder why voting isn't always like this.
I expect to eventually progress to voting electronically but we must never confuse major elections with American idol votes (so security and ID is really important). When I was young (and ignorant) I proposed voting via telephone networks...

 "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now".

JR

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 03:46:22 PM
My post office is literally across the street from me in the other direction.

Same here (though it's not a post office). I suppose it comes down to the width of the street.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
Ya that’s seems to be going around a lot when you condemn one side and praise the other as solutions like there is no middle ground.   Monkey see monkey do.  Identity politics And what-about-ism seem to be the way this thread goes.

And it was propelled again by your reply to dmp going back to the incident with Biden’s campaign bus. Was it not? How can anyone talk about coming to middle ground at the same time?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 03, 2020, 04:45:45 PM
I doubt election day 2020 is going to be the day when we find common ground - in a thread for team politics, no less
but for the country to come together and deescalate the partisanship, there needs to be a willingness to look at the facts and try to find a middle ground. Everybody needs to decide not to engage with bad faith - and those that continue to do that should be ignored, as it's just a waste of time.  It applies to both sides because the world isn't black and white - neither side is completely right or wrong.
One of my favorite authors, Daniel Kahneman, says: "I like changing my mind, some people don't like it, but for me it's a thrill". Letting go of the fear of being seen as wrong is liberating, and will lead to finding common ground with others.
I know other people have mentioned it before, but "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathon Haidt is a great book to help understand the different approaches people take to moral decisions. care/harm, loyalty, authority, etc...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 04:49:05 PM
There wasn't exactly a plethora to choose from.

To summarize, you’ve said voters took a risk to go with the non-establishment person. I’m all for it! I’m still in! But based on Trump’s 2016 campaign alone (never mind anything previous), there was absolutely nothing to indicate this is the person to take that risk on. None. Instead, it all indicated who absolutely not to take that risk on. Him!

How in the hell did it get to that point? Well, people had truly either been in a bunker with no idea about the outside world during his campaign or simply voted for their party like a zombie.

Overall, my point is, logic to me doesn’t indicate anything about taking a risk on the non-establishment guy/gal and therefore is just another political talking point, a perfect fit for this thread.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: ruffrecords on November 03, 2020, 04:49:31 PM
I saw a poll today that gave the democrats 52.5% and the Republicans 45%. Are those kinds of figures historically reflected in the the final results?

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 05:33:10 PM
Well, people had truly either been in a bunker with no idea about the outside world during his campaign or simply voted for their party like a zombie.

Nah.

I don't care for the guy,  nor did I vote for him.  But you seem to have blinders on as to why a lot of people did. As they say,  not learning from the past makes you doomed to repeat it.

I don't see how we ever get to a more inclusive / less divisive country when disregarding so many.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 03, 2020, 05:56:56 PM
So sorry for the whataboutism to my diy associates.  I know the brewery and Election Day are good for making trouble .   Tomorrow drink to whoever wins and move along.   

It’s 77 today in Colorado and a beautiful day outside.   I love where I live and would not trade for any other country in the world.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 06:44:00 PM
So sorry for the whataboutism to my diy associates.  I know the brewery and Election Day are good for making trouble .   Tomorrow drink to whoever wins and move along.   

It’s 77 today in Colorado and a beautiful day outside.   I love where I live and would not trade for any other country in the world.

Here’s to that!

Both my wife and I have extended family in Denver. We’ve only been there once for a wedding some 10 years ago. I still have dreams of taking my kids to the mint for a tour! I suspect that’ll never happen before they no longer care.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 07:22:26 PM
But you seem to have blinders on as to why a lot of people did. As they say,  not learning from the past makes you doomed to repeat it.

I’m trying to see, but so far, it doesn’t seem logical to me. I’m definitely a strong advocate to shake things up and trying new approaches, but who in their right mind thought this was a good try with this guy? Too many apparently.

Look how much support Trump still has in this election. This also doesn’t seem to support that the 2016 election was the American people’s calculated-risk of supporting a non-establishment person. Did they not learn the first time around?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 03, 2020, 08:49:32 PM
I would say a lot of people have buyers remorse and were ready to abandon ship.... until the alternative became Biden / Harris.

A ticket of something like Yang / Gabbard would have gotten a lot to more crossover.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 03, 2020, 10:19:51 PM
I would say a lot of people have buyers remorse and were ready to abandon ship.... until the alternative became Biden / Harris.

A ticket of something like Yang / Gabbard would have gotten a lot to more crossover.

Except I wouldn’t expect anything less from a two-party only system.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on November 04, 2020, 12:35:37 AM
https://www.adfontesmedia.com/ (https://www.adfontesmedia.com/)


(https://i.imgur.com/vKVUKVe.jpg?1)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 04, 2020, 12:54:05 AM
It's quite funny,  and sad,  that TMZ is a more reputable news source than Fox News and MSNBC.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: ruffrecords on November 04, 2020, 04:08:01 AM
It's quite funny,  and sad,  that TMZ is a more reputable news source than Fox News and MSNBC.

I certainly would not put the BBC in the 'fact reporting' category.

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 04, 2020, 08:24:58 AM
I certainly would not put the BBC in the 'fact reporting' category.


Maybe because you have been consuming media on the lower right corner? ;-)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 04, 2020, 09:25:54 AM
I certainly would not put the BBC in the 'fact reporting' category.

Cheers

Ian
I recall listening to the Beeb with short wave radio back in the 1950s, they were authoritative back then, especially compared to Radio Moscow, or Radio Havana, Cuba.  ::) Since then they seem inflicted with the same compulsion to tell people what to think about events, so much so that they started a broadcast service dedicated for the N. America market... No thank you
=====
It seems like the polls declaring that VP Joe Biden had a 9% lead were more than a little off.  ::)

Looks like record turn out and record "spending", but if money alone could buy elections we'd be looking at President Mike Bloomberg.  :'(

We need to look out for funny business with mail in vote counting. I can understand waiting until the election to not waste effort if the vote isn't even close but why would a state suspend counting during an undecided vote? PA resumed counting this morning but Nevada is not reporting more results until Thursday. I can not think of any "good" reason to delay reporting votes, we can easily imagine bad reasons. 

Looks like a January 5th run off for at least one GA senate seat when none of the candidates got 50%. (There was an item on the MS ballot this year asking to suspend 50% requirement.)
 
It appears that many businesses voted by putting up plywood, and rioters in some western states did not even wait for a final decision.

I remain optimistic about an honest count but appearances are a little suspicious. The integrity of our vote is very important. Inexplicable delays are not building public confidence.

I can imagine some attention harvesting by being the squeaky wheel, that holds up the decision.

JR

PS: The voting system used in MS, paper ballots with optical readers confirming a readable ballot on the spot before accepting it. This still leaves an opening for hacking computerized counts and reporting, but the paper ballot remains as a robust backup for manual recounts if required.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 04, 2020, 09:31:03 AM
80 percent of active voters voted in Colorado.   Impressive turnout.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 04, 2020, 09:37:10 AM
About that media chart - why is RT in the "reliable" column? A 2017 report by the United States Intelligence Community characterized RT as "The Kremlin's principal international propaganda outlet". It has been peddling conspiracy theories and promoting anti-scientific BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_America
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Scodiddly on November 04, 2020, 10:33:58 AM
We need to look out for funny business with mail in vote counting. I can understand waiting until the election to not waste effort if the vote isn't even close but why would a state suspend counting during an undecided vote? PA resumed counting this morning but Nevada is not reporting more results until Thursday. I can not think of any "good" reason to delay reporting votes, we can easily imagine bad reasons. 

Let's count the all ballots.  Even if certain people want to stop while they're ahead.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 04, 2020, 10:59:24 AM
Let's count the all ballots.  Even if certain people want to stop while they're ahead.
Forget this BS about "funny business" with mail-in votes.  Let's look at the real "funny business" with DeJoy drastically slowing mail delivery and defying court orders.  That's a man who belongs behind bars for election interference. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 04, 2020, 11:02:00 AM
Let's count the all ballots.  Even if certain people want to stop while they're ahead.
Indeed lets count all legal ballots.

The betting markets have now flipped to a Biden win... This is logical based on the uncounted mail in ballots being majority democratic. (note: betting on the campaign is illegal here so these bets are placed offshore).

JR

PS: I heard an amusing observation about President Trump... His supporters take him seriously but not literally, his detractors take him literally but not seriously. This "stopping the legal vote count" is just the latest example of that. Of course there is an opportunity for fraud at least the appearance of funny business from unexplained delays. I am smart enough to predict outcomes, and this seems larger than the Gore clusterfsck in FL years ago. A good years for advertisers and lawyers. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 04, 2020, 11:13:56 AM
"Gore clusterfsck"? You mean when the conservative Supreme Court majority wrote that completely illogical ruling and stopped the count to give the election to their man? ;-)

As for "funny business", my guess would be that there are watchers from both parties and Independents all around these ballots. It looks a lot like the "red mirage" that was predicted, at least in Michigan and Wisconsin, maybe also Georgia, Pennsylvania and North Carolina, because yes, the uncounted mail has a high probability to skew heavily to the Democratic party.

Still, with the Senate not likely to end up with the Democrats there isn't much constructive legislation to be expected down the road. Two more years of stalemate.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 04, 2020, 11:26:41 AM
His supporters take him seriously but not literally, his detractors take him literally but not seriously. This "stopping the legal vote count" is just the latest example of that.
Things do not look positive for Trump.  I predicted a while back (not here but to friends) that if he lost he would try to raise enough stink around the election that Biden would give him a pardon just to get him the f*ck out of the White House.  And I'm really expecting him to try. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 04, 2020, 01:09:08 PM
Asking for a pardon would mean he’d have to ask it for something he’s done wrong. He can’t even tell the truth about what he ate for breakfast!

On the other hand, maybe a ruling to reverse his impeach from the house, but his only chance there is only what he’s been doing: Demanding Barr imprison his revivals or replacing him with someone he things will go that step for him. Maybe Giuliani will.
Title: Re: team politics talkiapparentlyng points.
Post by: CJ on November 04, 2020, 09:27:03 PM
apparently there were laws already in place that dictate the start times for which mail-in ballots can be counted.

due to the pandemic, above normal mail-in ballots were received.

thus the delays in vote counting due to the inflexibility of the system which was established long before the expected influx of hardcopy data. as well as 'problem ballots" (people writing in mickey mouse for president) having to go through different channels.

we couldn't have hoped for a better torture to the orange incumbent. his hunger for attention almost being satisfied for another 4 years, but no! the carpet was jerked from underneath at the last possible moment!  :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 04, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
"Gore clusterfsck"? You mean when the conservative Supreme Court majority wrote that completely illogical ruling and stopped the count to give the election to their man? ;-)

As for "funny business", my guess would be that there are watchers from both parties and Independents all around these ballots.
Don't guess, there are already news reports of mischief. A GOP poll watcher was denied access for something like 12 hours in Philly while 100k votes were being counted.   The explanation for it was that it was a "mistake".  ::)  ::)

Vote recounts rarely change outcomes but it is always important to keep everybody honest.
Quote
It looks a lot like the "red mirage" that was predicted, at least in Michigan and Wisconsin, maybe also Georgia, Pennsylvania and North Carolina, because yes, the uncounted mail has a high probability to skew heavily to the Democratic party.
If the pre election polls were accurate there wouldn't be anything to recount some polls were off almost 10% in favor of VP Biden. The silent majority doesn't do polls.
Quote

Still, with the Senate not likely to end up with the Democrats there isn't much constructive legislation to be expected down the road. Two more years of stalemate.
Divided government is generally good for the markets, the government can do less damage that way.

Funny I haven't heard all the typical whining about how much money was spent on politics this year.  A couple senate races blew $100M each trying to flip them over to democrat.  :P  How much did Bloomberg spend in FL?  ;D

Hypocrisy is par for the course when politics are discussed.

JR

PS: After the last four years it is hard to imagine that POTUS might have trust issues with vote count integrity. The good news is that our republic is strong. No rioting or looting in Hickory today.  8)  I am not optimistic about a Biden (Harris?) Presidency but we could survive that too.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 05, 2020, 01:30:45 AM
I am not optimistic about a Biden (Harris?) Presidency but we could survive that too.

I’m curious of the (Harris?) part. Is that more already larger known team politics talking points or otherwise?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Scodiddly on November 05, 2020, 08:20:35 AM
I’m curious of the (Harris?) part. Is that more already larger known team politics talking points or otherwise?

It's one of those crazy Q-anon level conspiracy theories.  They think that Biden will be immediately removed to make Harris the president.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 05, 2020, 08:45:53 AM
Vote recounts rarely change outcomes but it is always important to keep everybody honest.
Honest!!!!  That's super rich coming from a Republican.  Particularly a Republican Trump supporter. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: volker on November 05, 2020, 08:49:38 AM
Honest!!!!  That's super rich coming from a Republican.  Particularly a Republican Trump supporter.

What the Trump campaign and supporters in different states are basically saying: "You have to stop in Georgia, keep going in Arizona, stop in Pennsylvania, keep going in Nevada, stop in North Carolina, recount Wisconsin, and ultimately let Brett Kavanaugh weigh in on all of it. That's what the founders would have wanted."

It's hilarious.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on November 05, 2020, 11:57:04 AM
With the flurry of lawsuits coming (unless the final counts somehow end up red), the election will be "under audit" and nothing will change until that is completed, and we already know how long that will take.

We are really in for some sh*t, not to mention covid exploding.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 05, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
Honest!!!!  That's super rich coming from a Republican.  Particularly a Republican Trump supporter.
stop with the personal trolling, veiled or otherwise.

A judge in PA just ruled that Republican monitors can watch the vote counting from only 6 feet away, the democrats were forcing them to watch from 20 feet away. The democratic lawyers tried to delay the hearing but the Judge didn't fall for that sham.   

JR

PS: Sorry to hear you candidate Espy lost to Cindy (our first woman in congress) despite raising 3x the money ($9M vs  her $3M).  It was a good election for advertising sales.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 05, 2020, 12:25:51 PM
A judge in PA just ruled that Republican monitors can watch the vote counting from only 6 feet away, the democrats were forcing them to watch from 20 feet away.

What a major, MAJOR, EPIC win for the Trump campaign. Get the champagne!

Widespread voter fraud has never been proven, but voter suppression in the US has a long and ugly history and is still ongoing. Why don't you direct your attention to that?

There was some good news from your state, btw:

https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/11/mississippi-measure-2-statewide-election-provision-jim-crow/
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 05, 2020, 12:28:21 PM
Here's what independant observers said wrt to voter fraud:

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-elections-voting-2020-voting-b30f3424736014a6b7405df71e32e36f
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 05, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
With the flurry of lawsuits coming (unless the final counts somehow end up red), the election will be "under audit" and nothing will change until that is completed, and we already know how long that will take.

We are really in for some sh*t, not to mention covid exploding.

Well the Constitution is very explicitly clear under most situations including litigation and congressional scenarios at the same time, at the time of Inauguration Day... Should we actually follow the Constitution and not just rollover for the sake of politics or the party when leaders make arguments for not doing that, we should be alright.

The problem is, I’ve hardly seen any right leaders truly standing up for the clear words in the Constitution for a number of years. Absolutely all should be. I pray at least the majority.

Unfortunately no. It will continue without consequences. With an equally divided nation and supporters eating up the arguments for not following things that are absolutely clear in the Constitution, voting them out as a consequence is a joke and one of the stupidest things I’ve heard. Mitch and Lindseys’ re-election after flip-flopping arguments on Supreme Court nominations when the Constitution is absolutely clear to is the latest example. That is NOT something that should stand without consequence!

I have not hope that it will be so though. And that’s why we’re at where we’re at now. That’s quite a low point and unfortunately, it can always get worse. I’m waiting for line to be crossed for the right leaders and voters in hope they do something. I can’t believe the Constitution is not that line!
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on November 05, 2020, 01:15:39 PM
Mitch and Lindseys’ re-election after flip-flopping arguments on Supreme Court nominations when the Constitution is absolutely clear to is the latest example. That is NOT something that should stand without consequence!
Unfortunately, for GOP voters in KY and SC, this is the feature, not the bug.  Do whatever it takes to win, unless a Democrat is doing it, at which point it becomes wrong.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 05, 2020, 02:13:15 PM
Unfortunately, for GOP voters in KY and SC, this is the feature, not the bug.  Do whatever it takes to win, unless a Democrat is doing it, at which point it becomes wrong.

To be fair, both sides play that game, but when it to comes ridiculous slime-ball-lawyer arguments to clear-cut Constitutional laws, the right has been on a roll for years.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 05, 2020, 02:27:55 PM
What a major, MAJOR, EPIC win for the Trump campaign. Get the champagne!
So you consider it a democratic loss that a judge stopped them from keeping republican ballot inspectors 20-30 feet away? 
Quote
Widespread voter fraud has never been proven, but voter suppression in the US has a long and ugly history and is still ongoing. Why don't you direct your attention to that?

Quote
There was some good news from your state, btw:

https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/11/mississippi-measure-2-statewide-election-provision-jim-crow/

I love it when you guys school me about MS and America...  ::)

Yes they forced me to show picture ID to vote. Since I have carried and needed picture ID for about 50 years now I don't consider that voter suppression.

As I have shared here before I believe voters without picture ID should be allowed a provisional ballot after giving a finger print and a quick facial photograph. If the vote is close these provisional votes can be vetted. If it isn't a close election the data just gets flushed.

FWIW it wasn't close in MS.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: CJ on November 05, 2020, 02:32:07 PM
we have a while until the rumpster has to pack up his toilet seat.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: john12ax7 on November 05, 2020, 04:51:48 PM
What the Trump campaign and supporters in different states are basically saying: "You have to stop in Georgia, keep going in Arizona, stop in Pennsylvania, keep going in Nevada, stop in North Carolina, recount Wisconsin, and ultimately let Brett Kavanaugh weigh in on all of it. That's what the founders would have wanted."

It's hilarious.

There are crowds some places literally chanting "stop the count"

Not a good look the US is presenting to the world.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: volker on November 05, 2020, 05:01:24 PM
Where you you think it started? (https://uploads.dailydot.com/2020/11/Donald-Trump-Stop-The-Count-Tweet-Biden-Win.jpg)

The look hasn't been very good for at least 3,5 years, it's a bit late to be concerned about that now.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 05, 2020, 05:12:40 PM
I love it when you guys school me about MS and America...  ::)


Did I trigger you in some way?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: dmp on November 05, 2020, 05:13:27 PM
Funny about Trump tweeting "stop the count", he would lose if the count were stopped when he said that.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 05, 2020, 05:56:48 PM
Funny about Trump tweeting "stop the count", he would lose if the count were stopped when he said that.

Oh, he only wants to stop them counting Biden votes.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 05, 2020, 06:01:33 PM

PS: Sorry to hear you candidate Espy lost to Cindy (our first woman in congress) despite raising 3x the money ($9M vs  her $3M).  It was a good election for advertising sales.

I'm sure Mississippi appreciated the economic boost.  And I'm sure my friends in Oxford appreciated having a qualified candidate well-funded enough to make a good run at the Senate, despite the long odds.  Things are certainly changing here in Georgia--maybe MS won't be too far behind. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Matador on November 05, 2020, 06:24:53 PM
Oh, he only wants to stop them counting Biden votes.
It's a Schrödinger's Tweet: where he wants the counting to simultaneously continue and stop.

PS: Sorry to hear you candidate Espy lost to Cindy (our first woman in congress) despite raising 3x the money ($9M vs  her $3M).  It was a good election for advertising sales.
I'm fully in agreement with you:  hopefully this is instructive to the Democrats that it's not worth spending vast sums of money to try to win in red states full of people who are impervious to your message.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 05, 2020, 07:27:15 PM
It's a Schrödinger's Tweet: where he wants the counting to simultaneously continue and stop.

But actually his cat had been dead since Tuesday...  ;D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 06, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
Trump is currently going batsh!t loco on Twitter.  Even if he's just pretending to lose it, as some on the right might wish us to believe (all part of the grand scheme, right?), he is speaking very irresponsibly.  His words could push some of his more deluded supporters to violence. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: CJ on November 06, 2020, 04:23:24 PM
reminds me of nixon during his last days,
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 07, 2020, 08:08:29 AM
Trump is currently going batsh!t loco on Twitter.  Even if he's just pretending to lose it, as some on the right might wish us to believe (all part of the grand scheme, right?), he is speaking very irresponsibly.  His words could push some of his more deluded supporters to violence.

There is a thread in the brewery titled "Antagonist-In-Chief". I can't imagine what would have given me the idea to start that one. Hopefully this will all calm down soon. Prepping my new flag for the yard... Biden 2021. NO MORE BULLSH*T AT LAST.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 09, 2020, 10:53:12 PM
And the Grand Old Party continues its march to fascism, supporting Trump's baseless claims of vote fraud.  Trump's actions are certainly no surprise, but other GOP types could show a little more class, & maybe try to be a little less fascist.  But no.  It's Trump's party now, and even in defeat they must humor his delusional madness. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: L´Andratté on November 10, 2020, 04:40:21 AM
To whom it may concern: interesting critical analysis of US political system by Jonathan Cook of Counterpunch:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/11/09/the-task-of-sleepy-joe-is-to-put-liberal-america-right-back-to-sleep/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/11/09/the-task-of-sleepy-joe-is-to-put-liberal-america-right-back-to-sleep/)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: fazer on November 10, 2020, 01:55:05 PM
To whom it may concern: interesting critical analysis of US political system by Jonathan Cook of Counterpunch:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/11/09/the-task-of-sleepy-joe-is-to-put-liberal-america-right-back-to-sleep/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/11/09/the-task-of-sleepy-joe-is-to-put-liberal-america-right-back-to-sleep/)


Yes agree with his thoughts.   And also how do you get the money out of politics?   Every time there is campaign finance reform,   There is even more corporate money poured into politics for favors .   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on November 11, 2020, 04:01:40 PM


Yes agree with his thoughts.   And also how do you get the money out of politics?   Every time there is campaign finance reform,   There is even more corporate money poured into politics for favors .
If you like big money in politics watch the Georgia senate seat run offs coming in early Jan. Several seats in the last (this?) election drew over $100M in political spending, these two seats are projected to draw several times that amount.

At least the big spending now is out in plain sight (more or less), better than driving the influence buying underground (while I suspect some of that goes on too). Still curious about how many lawmakers become millionaires on government paychecks. 

JR

PS: If you think our democracy is messy be thankful we don't live in Hong Kong. China just ousted 4 pro-democracy lawmakers and the remaining 15 pro-democracy lawmakers resigned in sympathy. That's one way to quash dissent. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 11, 2020, 04:37:01 PM


Yes agree with his thoughts.   And also how do you get the money out of politics?   Every time there is campaign finance reform,   There is even more corporate money poured into politics for favors .

Citizens United is a big reason for the massive quantities of corporate money--and that came to us via the conservative Supreme Court majority.  Just so you know whom to blame.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 11, 2020, 06:18:31 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/mississippi-lawmaker-state-should-secede-from-the-union-2020-11%3famp

Republicans, this is who you stand with. 'Murica. Freedom.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 11, 2020, 08:15:16 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/mississippi-lawmaker-state-should-secede-from-the-union-2020-11%3famp

Republicans, this is who you stand with. 'Murica. Freedom.

Mississippi is consistently ranked as having one of the highest ratios of its citizens receiving federal spending vs. taxes. Put bluntly, it's mostly the blue states that are paying for the red states.

But these things are only relevant for the reality based community...

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on November 11, 2020, 11:49:53 PM
As COVID cases jumped again to a new record,  I had to wonder why Trump is seemingly so desperate to cling to the presidency when he appears to have absolutely no interest in leading the country.  He seems to be doing nothing but firing people who aren't unflinchingly, blindly loyal to him, installing toadies in their place, and trying to cheat and lie his way to remaining in the Oval Office.  And 70 million Americans voted for this egomaniacal imposter.  What the actual eff?  This is really what 70 million Amuricans thinking being presidential looks like? 

Joe Biden, not yet president, is already doing a far better job of being president than Trump is, or really ever has.  The contrast is stunning, and yet it's lost on the folks who voted for America's Biggest Loser.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: L´Andratté on November 12, 2020, 04:28:10 AM
One thing I heard of a Trump voting family I know personally is like
"We don´t agree with Trump on pretty much anything, especially the child separation thing and health care policy, and he is a horrible person, but he is the only one standing inbetween us and socialism."
Have to take that serious, but it´s hard, afraid of the big black man... :o
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on November 12, 2020, 08:17:17 AM
And they have no clue what the "Socialism" they are missing actually looks like. They think of Venezuela but would be getting something closer to Sweden, Denmark or Germany (with Sanders, Warren or AOC, not Biden). Which means they would be far better off than they are now. Again, it's tragic.

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 12, 2020, 12:14:29 PM
Well the socialism scare team talking point worked as designed. Good job.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 12, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
Mississippi is consistently ranked as having one of the highest ratios of its citizens receiving federal spending vs. taxes. Put bluntly, it's mostly the blue states that are paying for the red states.

But these things are only relevant for the reality based community...
Your comments are quite accurate. Not only does that Republican lawmaker not understand what he's asking for, he doesn't even know what the word actually is... :o
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on November 20, 2020, 12:28:53 PM
“This is real! It’s not made up! There’s nobody here who engages in fantasies.”

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/83f7a2c231d2339b284f824dd1ee97d13081a5f7/0_128_3837_2302/master/3837.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=6ad051aa1aeb3f182e593ee6f22a0195)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 25, 2020, 11:11:31 AM
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/seth-rich-settlement-lawsuit-lawyers/2020/11/24/id/998625/

Hilarious. Newsmax calls out Fox(fake)News. The "fake news" house of cards begins to fall. More conspiracy theories to fall with Trump's removal... "BUT HER E-MAILS!!!" Currently, only 3% of Trump voters believe Biden was a legit win. That will hopefully change when Trump goes. I believed the 2016 election results when Trump LOST the popular vote by 3+million. Now he has lost the election AND the popular vote by 6+million and his followers can't accept it. Poor losers, I guess. Maybe they would like a "gold star" from the "snowflakes". Things will hopefully improve as lies are not accepted daily(literally) from The White House and re-enforced by state TV. Baby steps.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on November 25, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
I hear Mutt and Jeff are getting together today in PA - should be quite the comedy.

(https://ochsnerblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/screen-shot-2017-04-05-at-10-06-29-am.jpg?w=478)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on November 30, 2020, 11:36:01 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/27/politics/federal-execution-new-rule-firing-squads/index.html

For all the pro-lifers who vote Republican. Party of religion. WWJD? Not this.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on November 30, 2020, 12:04:12 PM
Believe you me: Just as people use biblical book references for pro-life, people use just as much in there for war; and so many other references on subjects to control everybody-else’s life. Many many many fail to except that it’s a book about centering your own life, if you truly have Him in your heart. Many many many who think they do, actually truly don’t and missed the whole point; regardless of how much church they attend or how holy or scholarly they are.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on November 30, 2020, 05:12:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fY959gC.png?1)
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Tubetec on November 30, 2020, 05:42:22 PM
This worlds gone barking mad Boji   ;D

duck cover hold ,
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 01, 2020, 08:58:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fY959gC.png?1)

I don't know what is going on in your state, but in my state, local police are choosing not to enforce public health mitigation mandates put in place by the ELECTED governor. Law and order? HA! You can't have it both ways. As long as the police do as they please, I have no need for them. After all, I've got my guns in a state with concealed carry. Freedom. 'Murica.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 01, 2020, 08:27:35 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/01/trump-lawyer-joe-digenova-election-security-chief-chris-krebs-shot

Republicans, here's your law and order.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: boji on December 01, 2020, 10:34:11 PM
Where's whoops levity check.  ;D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 01, 2020, 11:23:10 PM
“If Republicans don’t start condemning this stuff, then I think they’re really complicit in it,” Raffensperger told The Post. “It’s time to stand up and be counted. Are you going to stand for righteousness? Are you going to stand for integrity? Or are you going to stand for the wild mob?”

While I think Georgia SOS Brad Raffensperger could have started asking these questions 4+ years ago, I guess better late than never.  Of course, he was happy to support Trump until the death threats were directed at him. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 02, 2020, 07:43:24 AM
“If Republicans don’t start condemning this stuff, then I think they’re really complicit in it,” Raffensperger told The Post. “It’s time to stand up and be counted. Are you going to stand for righteousness? Are you going to stand for integrity? Or are you going to stand for the wild mob?”

While I think Georgia SOS Brad Raffensperger could have started asking these questions 4+ years ago, I guess better late than never.  Of course, he was happy to support Trump until the death threats were directed at him.

...as I have now said multiple times concerning many Republicans' behavior... Silence is cooperation.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 04, 2020, 10:30:14 AM
"U.S. net farm income this year will jump 43% to $119.6 billion, the highest inflation-adjusted level since 2013."
"Direct government aid, accounting for 39% of net farm income, rose to a record $46.5 billion from $22.4 billion last year."

So apparently the govt. gave out money to farmers to increase their profits--it's fair to say the entirety of that $24 billion profit increase came from the boost in federal handouts.  Count on thrifty Republicans to give away lots of our tax $$$$ to potential voters in an election year. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 04, 2020, 10:35:40 AM
"U.S. net farm income this year will jump 43% to $119.6 billion, the highest inflation-adjusted level since 2013."
"Direct government aid, accounting for 39% of net farm income, rose to a record $46.5 billion from $22.4 billion last year."

So apparently the govt. gave out money to farmers to increase their profits--it's fair to say the entirety of that $24 billion profit increase came from the boost in federal handouts.  Count on thrifty Republicans to give away lots of our tax $$$$ to potential voters in an election year.

Fear not, here is some Republican policy that we should all encourage and get behind. Thanks, Donald.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3800126001
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 04, 2020, 12:31:07 PM
weird....all kidding aside, I thought people usually give a hint that something was supposed to be taken as a joke....
Maybe it's an attempt at a Steven Wright thing....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1334686548122591235
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 06, 2020, 07:59:15 AM
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/12/02/calls-for-martial-law-and-us-military-oversight-of-new-presidential-elections-draws-criticism/

Hey morally irreprehensible Republicans, here's your chance to sit back, keep your mouth shut and let your peers continue on... Silence is cooperation.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on December 06, 2020, 09:59:22 AM
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/12/02/calls-for-martial-law-and-us-military-oversight-of-new-presidential-elections-draws-criticism/

Hey morally irreprehensible Republicans, here's your chance to sit back, keep your mouth shut and let your peers continue on... Silence is cooperation.
You talking to me?

Do you agree with election cheating? 

Silence is cooperation.

JR 

PS: My apologies for the whatabout... never heard of that group.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 06, 2020, 10:06:37 AM
You talking to me?

Do you agree with election cheating? 

Silence is cooperation.

JR 

PS: My apologies for the whatabout... never heard of that group.

The right is using violence to push conspiracy theories. The left is using the law to debunk them. Trump appointed Republican judges are throwing out these cases because there is no evidence. I think you should provide them with the needed evidence since you seem to know where it is. I suppose the earth is flat, also.

edit: I should have said advocating violence, not using violence. Dangerous rhetoric, regardless.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 06, 2020, 10:22:48 AM
You talking to me?

Do you agree with election cheating? 

Silence is cooperation.

JR 

PS: My apologies for the whatabout... never heard of that group.

https://amp.jsonline.com/amp/6455880002

...now I am. I guess that was a cool 3 million spent to improve the cheating. What a businessman!
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on December 06, 2020, 10:30:37 AM
The right is using violence to push conspiracy theories. The left is using the law to debunk them. Trump appointed Republican judges are throwing out these cases because there is no evidence. I think you should provide them with the needed evidence since you seem to know where it is. I suppose the earth is flat, also.

edit: I should have said advocating violence, not using violence. Dangerous rhetoric, regardless.
That is rich suggesting that the right is the side advocating violence, while there are fringe elements on both sides that are extreme.

We all have a stake in election integrity.

JR
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on December 06, 2020, 12:59:17 PM
https://amp.jsonline.com/amp/6455880002

...now I am. I guess that was a cool 3 million spent to improve the cheating. What a businessman!

That $3 million is peanuts compared to the $200 million that's been raised from the mass assault of grifting text and email messages they've sent out to his supporters since November 4th.   Most of the money does NOT go towards the meritless court cases but is stashed in Trump and RNC funds.   I wonder how many who donated didn't read the fine print.   

There is the one guy who now wants his $2.5 million back though.   
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 06, 2020, 01:10:48 PM

Do you agree with election cheating? 


I wonder if I'm really dense sometimes, or maybe if I struggle with communication via internet. 
Are you saying that you buy into all of Trump's nonsense about election fraud?  There are times when I feel I need things like this spelled out to me--maybe it's because I think you're too smart to buy into that garbage. 



Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on December 06, 2020, 01:19:41 PM
I wonder if I'm really dense sometimes, or maybe if I struggle with communication via internet. 
Are you saying that you buy into all of Trump's nonsense about election fraud?  There are times when I feel I need things like this spelled out to me--maybe it's because I think you're too smart to buy into that garbage.

John already congratulated "you know who" when, based on predictions, the media/networks called it for Biden.

He's very much far removed from your "low information" type voters that are on both sides of the aisle.

I can't speak for John, but I suspect he doesn't buy into the mass fraud stuff.  But ? 
 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 06, 2020, 01:24:37 PM
That is rich suggesting that the right is the side advocating violence, while there are fringe elements on both sides that are extreme.

We all have a stake in election integrity.

JR

The Proud Boys and Q-Anon have all been embraced by the president(not extreme fringe element:opposite of, actually). We The People have reached out in a full page ad in The Washington Times to implore Trump to declare martial law(which death is the penalty for breaking) to "take back" the election. I could go on and on... Boogaloo Boys, The 3 Percenters, Patriot Front, etc. Please cite other fringe extreme groups embraced by Democratic governmental leaders. Keep in mind Antifa is an idea, not an organization. There is a huge difference between election integrity and conspiracy theories pushed by a misinformation campaign designed to sow mistrust and division. Once again, please provide evidence of fraud. Trump's lawyers cannot. Republicans have severely harmed the perception of "election integrity"... all because they are poor loser snowflakes who are crying because they didn't get their "gold star". 2016, Trump lost the popular vote by 3.5 million and still became president. No one questioned the integrity of our voting system. 2020, Trump has lost by almost 7 million votes and lost the electoral college by exactly as much as he won by in 2016 in a self-declared "landslide" election. Trump held a "victory rally" last night in Georgia. The world has lost its mind.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 06, 2020, 01:39:22 PM
John already congratulated "you know who" when, based on predictions, the media/networks called it for Biden.

He's very much far removed from your "low information" type voters that are on both sides of the aisle.

I can't speak for John, but I suspect he doesn't buy into the mass fraud stuff.  But ?

Agreed.  Which is why I was a little mystified by the comment I quoted.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on December 06, 2020, 04:52:57 PM
“We seriously, sincerely cry out to you,” she prayed. “We ask you, O God, for deliverance, that our country may continue to know freedom. Would you deliver these races in Georgia, O Father? Would you deliver various local and state races, Father … and O God, I personally ask, for myself, Michele Bachmann, Lord, would you allow Donald Trump to have a second term as president of the United States?”

Sorry, Michelle, god is too busy scrounging for money:

"There’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullsh*t story. Holy sh*t!"


Should go in the quotes thread - one of my favorites.  :D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 06, 2020, 05:44:11 PM

Should go in the quotes thread - one of my favorites.  :D

A classic, among his others...

RIP
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 07, 2020, 02:30:50 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/07/89-republicans-say-democratic-voting-process-did-not-work-well/#

Hey Republicans, it's called losing. No gold stars. Teach your children this lesson so that guerrilla tactics aren't the resolve when student council elections don't go their way. THE CHILDREN ARE WATCHING AND LEARNING FROM US.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on December 07, 2020, 03:32:34 PM
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/07/89-republicans-say-democratic-voting-process-did-not-work-well/#
“Regardless of whether your preferred prudential candidate won, how well do you think the democratic voting process in the U.S. worked this year — very well, well, not too well or not well at all?” the survey asked.

prudential: involving or showing care and forethought, especially in business

I didn't realize the repubs had a prudential candidate.   :D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 07, 2020, 04:13:49 PM
...like I said...

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/07/943820889/michigan-secretary-of-state-says-armed-protesters-descended-on-her-home-saturday

Stand beside or speak out against. There is no middle ground when people start surrounding politicians' homes with arms. Period.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 07, 2020, 04:21:12 PM
...like I said...



Stand beside or speak out against. There is no middle ground when people start surrounding politicians' homes with arms. Period.

I'm more worried about the little one... That sucks...

Weird the article made sure to point out that she said what they were getting ready to watch on tv...
Got a little chuckle out if it...I remember that one...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 08, 2020, 09:48:29 PM
Wow. Just f*cking Republican WOW!!!

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/08/arizona-republican-party-asks-if-followers-die-election-president-donald-trump/6488952002/

That is rich suggesting that the right is the side advocating violence, while there are fringe elements on both sides that are extreme.

We all have a stake in election integrity.

JR

Rich, indeed.

edit: silence is cooperation
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: CJ on December 08, 2020, 10:29:28 PM
looks like the supreme court gave rump the finger today.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 09, 2020, 12:00:31 PM
Wow...lol
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: pucho812 on December 09, 2020, 12:07:59 PM
...like I said...

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/07/943820889/michigan-secretary-of-state-says-armed-protesters-descended-on-her-home-saturday

Stand beside or speak out against. There is no middle ground when people start surrounding politicians' homes with arms. Period.

so when others did this before, in the name of BLM, etc where were you?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on December 09, 2020, 01:15:42 PM
Well I’ve certainly said something toward both sides... Still, there’s been plenty asking this question to others while they themselves have not said anything critical toward their own side. Plenty of loud hypocritical comments to go around, out of fear, insecurities, and to help feed ego due to low self-worth; and not much true internal-reflection at all. Unfortunately, this behavior has been embraced way too much with endless talking-head “news”.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Winston O'Boogie on December 09, 2020, 01:17:19 PM
so when others did this before, in the name of BLM, etc where were you?

At home watching Netflix, Youtube, and BBC4. 
Read a few books, caught up on the news some...

I may also have up'ed my dietary allowance of Single Malt and nicotine. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: JohnRoberts on December 09, 2020, 07:00:09 PM
I have tried to avoid the typical political screeds but I have an anecdote. Today I was talking with my neighbor, the druggist, and he shared that his sister who lives in GA received a mail in ballot at home, but she ignored it and decided to vote in person.

At her polling place she was informed that she had already voted.  :o She went home and then returned to the polling place with her unused mail in ballot.

I'm sure this was just an isolated innocent mistake.  ::) ::) ::)

JR 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on December 09, 2020, 07:07:15 PM
Well, it shows that at least in GA you couldn't vote twice.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: Recording Engineer on December 09, 2020, 07:17:10 PM
Personal anecdotes of such things are nothing new and is just in part that ish happens; sometimes more than usual. Still, I don’t see how this is any different from elections past or will be in the future, so why all the humdrum and literal up in arms this time? How does any of this prove his claim of the biggest election fraud in US history? How does any of this justify getting some of the looniest lawyers and witnesses possible to parade around the courts? Yes, it’s their right, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid move and shows their true colors. How many lawsuits with only anecdotal stories can someone withstand before writing them off as nuts? How much defending of all this before someone thinks there’s a screw loose?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 09, 2020, 08:53:21 PM
Is it true 17 states are joining Texas?
Crazy....

It'll be ok... I know people can get along... Can you imagine if everyone drove like they post how they feel about the other people.

..lol... Rush hour would be exciting....
Right now I feel pretty trusting of all the vehicles around me when I'm driving....pretty sure it's bipartisanship...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 09, 2020, 11:22:05 PM

I'm sure this was just an isolated innocent mistake.  ::) ::) ::)

JR

Indeed.  I know people who got absentee ballots and had no such problem voting in person.  In fact, no one I know mentioned any problem like this--and unsurprisingly, I know a lot of Georgia voters. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 12, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
Interesting look at where all those ultra-conservative judges come from:

https://billmoyers.com/story/new-podcast-the-shadow-network/#.X9U-beQ_psJ.facebook
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: crazydoc on December 13, 2020, 12:17:03 PM
Interesting look at where all those ultra-conservative judges come from:

https://billmoyers.com/story/new-podcast-the-shadow-network/#.X9U-beQ_psJ.facebook
Thanks - interesting read - gotta hand it to the powers behind the repubs, they seem to have really elevated data mining to a new level - find the stupid and feed 'em.

It's a good thing the pandemic and racism raised their ugly heads, or we might have had a repeat of 2016.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 13, 2020, 12:53:51 PM
so when others did this before, in the name of BLM, etc where were you?

Please cite references of BLM members surrounding a politician's home(for upholding the laws)while carrying semi-automatic weapons.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 13, 2020, 12:55:50 PM
Well, it shows that at least in GA you couldn't vote twice.
...or it shows voter suppression by trying not to count a mail-in ballot.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 13, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
https://redstate.com/stu-in-sd/2020/12/12/they-are-our-enemies-n293225

Idiots looking for a fight...political affiliation? One guess.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 13, 2020, 02:45:20 PM
https://redstate.com/stu-in-sd/2020/12/12/they-are-our-enemies-n293225

Idiots looking for a fight...political affiliation? One guess.

Man says Jesus Christ is coming back???....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1337893474327203840
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 13, 2020, 05:26:34 PM
Man says Jesus Christ is coming back???....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1337893474327203840

That's a singular idiot with no organization to speak of. NOT what I've been referencing. Video was edited. What happened before the altercation? I wouldn't doubt that guy was standing next to people displaying the Confederate flag or the Nazi symbol and cheering in unison just prior to that. I'm not saying the masked person is right. What I am saying is that people on the right are advocating division and violence in an organized fashion and are willing to essentially overthrow our governmental politicians fairly chosen by the people(not that Q-Anon nut, Marjorie Taylor Greene, though), while people on the left are "associated" with protests and broken windows after documentable oppression and murders. Nice singular "whataboutism". Still waiting for real organizations embraced by Democrats f*cking with other politicians for doing their job to be brought up...I could post a picture of Emmitt Till if we'd like to continue the whataboutism game.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 13, 2020, 05:32:43 PM
Sure... I can see that....
It's getting pretty bad out there though regardless of the spin...

I just saw this altercation ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFu9-bfnQk&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 14, 2020, 10:24:14 AM
Sure... I can see that....
It's getting pretty bad out there though regardless of the spin...

I just saw this altercation ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuFu9-bfnQk&feature=emb_logo

Your post was honestly very funny and lighthearted. Unfortunately, this is not... and it's not "antifa".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/12/14/michigan-legislative-offices-shut-down-due-to-credible-threats-of-violence-ahead-of-electoral-college-vote/

...and to reiterate: GOP directly asking if their "followers" are ready to die to overturn the election for Trump. This isn't one person in a mask. Definitely not extreme fringe stuff.

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/12/arizona-gop-asks-republicans-are-you-willing-to-die-to-help-donald-trump-overturn-election-results-coup

I could go on. Please do not counter with a singular bad seed. I really want someone to offer up an analogous situation on the left. Yes, it is getting pretty bad out there and things like this perpetuated from the right, all the way up to the top, is why.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 14, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
I really want someone to offer up an analogous situation on the left.


Hopefully someone will be able to help you with that. I'm not sure I understand why the exercise is important though. So much time and effort seems to have been spent with the division, I'm not shure finding a common food people enjoy would be an easy task anymore nevermind the way they choose to spout off or actually address things...lol


Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: hodad on December 14, 2020, 02:50:58 PM

Hopefully someone will be able to help you with that. I'm not sure I understand why the exercise is important though.
Pretty simple.  If you play the "both sides do it" game, then maybe you should have some evidence to back it up.  Sometimes both sides aren't doing it, or there's a significant difference in the number or degree of offenses between the two sides.   When someone provides evidence contradicting your argument, " I'm not sure I understand why the exercise is important though" is a pretty weak response. 

I apologize if this sounds pedantic or condescending, but I'm taking you at your word when you say you're not sure you understand. 
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 14, 2020, 04:39:31 PM
Pretty simple.  If you play the "both sides do it" game, then maybe you should have some evidence to back it up.  Sometimes both sides aren't doing it, or there's a significant difference in the number or degree of offenses between the two sides.   When someone provides evidence contradicting your argument, " I'm not sure I understand why the exercise is important though" is a pretty weak response. 

I apologize if this sounds pedantic or condescending, but I'm taking you at your word when you say you're not sure you understand.

Lol...thanks
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: living sounds on December 15, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
For people wondering why papers turned trumpy, here is another clue:

https://www.exposedbycmd.org/2020/12/09/who-funds-the-federalist-finally-we-know/
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 15, 2020, 04:09:52 PM
Neat... Who would've thought...
I've used U-line before....
He's kinda Like the Bill Gates of  all things office related I guess...

Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 17, 2020, 08:01:16 AM
Neat... Who would've thought...
I've used U-line before....
He's kinda Like the Bill Gates of  all things office related I guess...

I am extremely familiar with the family and their politics. I often(pre-covid) work in a theater owned by the family. I intentionally haven't purchased any of their products in over 5 years. It's all I can do beyond voting.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: scott2000 on December 17, 2020, 08:06:58 AM
I feel you... I try to do things like that too...
Although I'd probably break my rules if they were the only game in town with any TP left...
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 17, 2020, 08:54:10 AM
I feel you... I try to do things like that too...
Although I'd probably break my rules if they were the only game in town with any TP left...

Where's the DIY spirit now?
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: volker on December 17, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Where's the DIY spirit now?
There are people who order unironically from Amazon. What do you expect.
Title: Re: team politics talking points.
Post by: iturnknobs on December 23, 2020, 08:10:00 AM
Republicans, not only do you silently stand with the idiots who condone violence as a political end resolve over and over and over and over... but I guess you stand with the Iranians, also. Stand tall. It would appear that DemocRATs(I did that for all the right-wingers out there)do not as easily succumb to a good old-fashioned conspiracy theory.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-pushed-online-effort-to-incite-violence-against-officials-defending-u-s-election-result-11608693494