Altec 436 Mods

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I don't know if I'll have the time to draft a clean schematic of the output attenuator in the near future. So, I've just added a scan of my working notes on the attenuator, including a crude schematic.

Although I posted the comments below in another thread very recently, it seems a good idea to repost them here in their entirety since they deal with this project in some detail.

The 436 does seem very limited (pun intended) to those of us whose expectations have been shaped by more modern compressors. It's a simple device designed to tackle a simple task: to take the fairly weak output from a mic preamp, smooth out any gross variations in volume and amplify the signal up to a level sufficent to feed a telephone line, studio-transmitter link or power amplifier in a PA system.

Although the manual makes no reference to doing so, you could run a mic directly into the 436, it has so much gain. And because of its high gain, and high output level, input and output attenuators are most definitely needed to interface it to typical +4dBU line-level system. On Dave's 436, I added a stepped bridged-T attenuator after the output transformer that gives 0 to -27dB (plus "off") in 3dB steps. I also added a switchable 12dB attenuator after the input transformer, just to give some measure of input level control.

But even with the input attenuator switched in, the average input level still needs to be below -10dBU or so if you desire full range on the threshold control--that is, 0dB compression when the control is turned up all the way. So, with a +4dBU (nominal) input, a 10 or 20dB pad may be needed even when the internal attenuator is switched in. I didn't want to make the switchable attenuator any greater than 12dB, figuring that any really big mismatches could be better handled by an external attenuator before the input terminals, preventing overload of the transformer.

If you play around with the sidechain time constants in your 436C, you'll soon find out why Altec choose those particular values. You can't reduce them much below stock values without causing instability at certain settings of the controls. I was only able to reduce R9 from 270K to 180K, and R12 from 33K to 27K. This equals nominal minimum attack and release times of approximately 30mS and 200mS, respectively--still pretty slow compared to what a modern compressor can manage! I also implemented a variable attack control by including a 100K linear pot in series with R12. Of course, this pot can only slow down the attack by an additional 0 to 100mS.

For what it's worth, adding a balance control to the 6BC8 variable-gain stage seems to help in minimizing the "roughness" at short attack and release settings. I used a 250-ohm trimpot wired between the cathodes, with the wiper going to the GR meter. I tried 100 ohms originally and found that it didn't give enough of a range to keep the "sweet spot" near the middle of the pot, where it should be.

The balance adjustment is made by applying a common-mode signal to the grids, adjusting the threshold control to some median value of compression (say, 10dB) and trimming the pot for minimum signal at the 436's output terminals--or, if preferred, minimum negative DC voltage at C4. An easy method for providing a common-mode test signal is to connect a 1uF, 100V cap between either side of the heater supply and the junction of R9 and R12.

Also, I replaced R8 with a 100-ohm trimpot to allow calibration of the GR meter.
 
First, please forgive my lack of knowledge regarding modifying this or any other circuit. I am at best a novice tinkerer.

Considering the difficulty there is in adjusting the release and attack resistors or pots if installed, would it be possible to have a set-up like the M*a*n*l*e*e verymoo? The recovery time is set by selecting between different size caps. I think the Sta-level does something similar. This may require moving the attack pot (I am only guessing by looking at the M schematic).

Would this be an option?

Also, where you have added the balance trim for the cathodes of the 6BC8, would it benefit to add a plate trim like in the UA 175,176, 177?


I have always wondered about these modifcations to this circuit.

Thanks.
Kevin
 
Thanks! Mods look good - I'll give them a try.

Just for completeness: Some mods that came up in discussion at 'the old place'.

http://www.omnipressor.com/Other/Altec.html

:thumb:

And yes, you can adjust the recovery with switchable caps - my clone is working with this method at the moment. It seems to adjust both attack and release together.
 
hey dave thanx again

i have an altec 436B when i bought it it had a bypas mod on it for the compression .(real simple)
thanks for this mod info .

i got a i lil question about my unit ..

it works but it is noisy .. AND ... when the compression either kicks in or is hit really hard it had a slighly audible "click"

any idea'a what cuould be causing this?
i am hoping a tube swap might cure this ..

the noise no doubt is due to some old caps (re BTW cool cap relacemet/box)

will replacing the power caps be enoug to quite it?
should i slate this for an entire cap replacement.
id like to go for a minimalist approach on this..

and the c versions have the mic preamp but ...
what are the differences between the a and b versions?

and one more question (sorry..hehe) the EMI mod ... is there info on this besides the guy selling it on ebay..
i am half tempted to pay the guy but figured it would come up here eventually>>> ::: fingers crossed:::: hehe

anyway this is a subject of great interest to me ...
1000 thanks for this thread.
later
ts
 
Easy, Toobie... Ya need to lay off the coke. :razz:

This was posted originally by a dear departed friend of ours. It shows a mod that was done on the other side of the pond...

PDF File

I don't know if this has any relation to the mod the guy on evilBay is trying to sell. Our aforementioned departed friend mentioned that that mod-for-sale appears to be incomplete, or not the latest revision.
 
I have purchased the "EMI" mods on ebay. When I have the time to scan them, they will be posted here soon after. I figured I'd give the guy a chance to make back the $200 that HE spent for them on ebay, before I posted them for all to see.

They're coming. :green:
 
> You can't reduce them much below stock values without causing instability

Try C5 C6 much larger, like 1uFd, R10 R11 smaller like 33K.

These R-C networks interact with the R12 C4 network in complicated ways. My suggestion may make thigs worse, but I know you can handle trial-and-failure and maybe gain some insight from it.

Keeping C5 C6 smaller than C4 does help reduce bass distortion- it becomes a charge-pump instead of a simple peak catcher. You might try C5 C6 in the 0.1-0.2uFd ballpark (then R10 R11 need to be like 100K to maintain limiting down to lowest frequency).

Wait.... no regulated supply??? The voltage at the top of C8B needs to be steady: this could be your instability. Toss 100uFd in there and see if stabilty changes. A fat-cap may solve the dynamic issue, but for pro-quality output regulation against line variation it should also be regulated with a Zener or gas-tube. ~200V seems a suitable value. This will however harden the soft-knee curve a bit.
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]Photos and a schematic here:

http://www.groupdiy.twin-x.com/thumbnails.php?album=77[/quote]

Hi, :grin:

Very, Very nice work!!!!!

"Magnifique " in French!!!! :thumb:


I'm interested by your Mods that's you've done,it' a very nice idea the Output Attn.

Good work!!

A bientot.
B2 :thumb:
 
B2:

Du rien. :grin:

PRR:

Those are good ideas... I'll give them a try if I ever get around to doing my DIY 436, or I get another one in the shop for mods. The 436 I modified is in the hands of its owner now, who seems pleased but we'll see what he thinks of it after he's lived with it for a while.

Regulating or otherwise stiffening the B+ to the 6BC8, and then adding a switchable resistance in series as a "knee" control, could be interesting.
 
I have a pair of 436c compressors that look like they came from the factory with adjustable attack - release . Its one knob that does both. I have had these for a long time and have never seen another pair. They are also black not green. If I could figure out how to post a pic on here I would. Mark
 
I'm gathering parts to overhaul my 436.

For P2 and P3 (release and threshold controls), did you use linear pots or log? (You mentioned that the 100K pot you added for attack was linear.)

Also, I'm going to try PRR's suggestion of beefing up C8b to 100uF. I wrote in another thread about the strange recovery lag, and I'm hoping this might help that. (The other thread is here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=10173 )

Cheers,
Leigh
 
Some limiters shut your audio down completely for a few seconds if your not careful. Like the old Collins. Radio station boss would chew you out for that one.
 
Dear NYD,

Hi! Long time . . . Hope you are well. All this Altec activity makes me wish i hadn't got rid of mine . . . . Ho Hum.

i hate to split hairs, but i believe our departed-freind's schemo is from Olympic, not Abbey Rd . . . .

All the best,

ANdyP
 
olafmatt, thanks for that info!

The EMI claim is tenuous at best... in that front page letter, the guy says he made these notes from a modded 436 from the UK that he worked on. Years later he saw some Altecs in a Beatles photo, and figured the 436 he worked on "was probably one of those." As if every modded 436 in the UK must have passed through the sainted hands of EMI techs...

Nonetheless, there are probably some good ideas in there for improving the workings of this beast.

Leigh
 
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