CJ

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2004, 07:21:34 PM »
Well wasn't the whole reason for starting this place under a democracy was so we could vote on how WE want it?

I mean, why take a pole if you are going to ignore it?

THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED AT THE LAST PLACE.
EVERYBODY TOLD THE GUY WHAT THEY WANTED AND HE DIDN'T LISTEN.
AREN'T YOU DOING THE EXACT SAME THING BY IGNORING THE RESULTS!

no more dictatorships, please!


cj
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html


HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2004, 10:55:29 PM »
CJ,

Settle down, I'm neither blind or deaf!!!

I'm not ignoring the poll................I'm only too aware of it.

And not EVERYBODY voted............a relatively small minority voted.  If we leave things as they currently are, we do so based on the vote of approx., 14% of the members.  If changes were implemented on a permanent basis (as would have been the case at RO), that change would be based on approx., 6% of the membership..................neither way would really be fair and democratic based on those poll results.

As I read the comments for and against, I came to the conclusions that:

1) The only fair and equitable way to determine which system would be best suited, would be to trial the systems....................then make informed decisions based on those trials.
2) Because the core focus of this community is DIY Pro Audio which by it's very nature has very limited boundaries and under most circumstances doesn't deviate far from that, it is probably difficult to attempt any comparisons to other audio forums as they are usually far broader in their range of subject matter.......what works for them may be somewhat different to what would work here.

Considering we have been "working" with the "all in one" format for so long and know how things work isn't it reasonable to consider trialing the alternative............or is that too much to ask for.

I'm not arguing for change, I'm arguing for a fair, sensible and equitable decision...................whichever way it goes.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"

CJ

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2004, 11:27:18 PM »
There ya go!
 :guinness:
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

PRR

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2004, 01:37:15 PM »
> Have a look at CNCzone

Interesting. My feeling is that CNCzone is over-divided. There are an awful lot of sections, and some of them have zero posts in the last 6 months. I realize someone saw a need for Brand-specific sections, a good thought. But if a brand has been dead for months (and isn't buying banner-ads!), I'd look to merge it with several similar brands serving similar products. Cross-fertilization is good stuff.

But other CNCzone sections are "too busy". One of my criteria is "scroll". If you have "too many" new threads each day, yesterday's threads fall to the second page of the thread-list. And nobody ever looks there. I think threads should stay visible (on the first page) for several days after the last post. However -here- and now, the first page of the LAB thread-list only covers 8 hours of posts. If I sleep, all the threads I have been in fall to the second page and I have to make an effort to find them.

Have a look at HeadWize: http://headwize.com/ubb/forums.php Eight sections. Each section tends to show about a week's worth of threads on the first page of the section thread-list.

I would strongly argue for enough sections so that when you look in a section, the first page shows several days of threads, not just "this morning".

And I would very much like to hear from the quieter members. HiString and CJ and I have debated both sides, and will probably continue to sling fine points at each other. A dozen other people have put an oar in. But that leaves a Silent Majority of about 312 people. While I do believe Admin Ethan has to have the final word, it isn't right for one person or a dozen persons to decide for the 327+ members without more opinions.

I have a laundry-room floor to lay, and a family get-together this weekend, so I will be scarce.

 -PRR

sismofyt

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2004, 01:42:38 PM »
I always like the Headwize layout myself..

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2004, 03:54:11 PM »
Now that I have spent a few days watching the forum develop, I think it is really a buisy place. Sometimes the first page fills up 2 or 3 times a day and that makes it more difficult to keep up with. The very reason I like everything in one place, so I won't inadvertently miss something is negated by the volume of traffic.

I originally voted for all in one place (one of the 14%) but I think it is now too buisy. The META threads help but some segmentation beyond this is needed as well. I'll give some more thought to breakdown and report back.

HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2004, 07:17:20 PM »
And while PRR is doing a laundry floor I'll continue, part time, with the final stages of laying 30 sq mtrs of mosaic parquetry through our lounge room.


Which system of forum organisation offers the most efficient or easy access to information?    An "all in one" forum or a categorised sub-forum system.


If people can answer that in a factual manner rather than in a way which has been influenced by their own personal preferences, then we may be on the way to resolving this discussion.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"

CJ

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2004, 07:21:46 PM »
OK, I think I just figured this whole thing out.
In order to have a subdivision be sucessful, you have to have someone there who is a major attraction.
For instance, a speaker forum moderated by Bill Robertson.
That would certainly fly!
But just a speaker forum without a star attraction, well, I don't think it would develop into much.
This place, amazing as it seems, is growing faster than it did at RO!
So, it is inevetiable that we will need to reorganize somewhere down the line, but we need the stars to run those individual forums.
What do you think?

A minor point, how many people voted in the last US presidential race?
14 percent?
So  the whole electoral college think kind of applys here, i think if everybody voted, then the results would be about the same, no?

cj
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2004, 07:38:54 PM »
CJ, are you saying that it isn't compulsory to vote in govt., elections in the US?  If so, that could explain our differing views on this poll result..........here it is compulsory to vote in any local govt., state govt., or federal govt., election so the voter turn out is obviously high......I guess I'm just used to a voting system where the result is a true indicator of public opinion.

There's no way in hell that I would bet on a 20% vorer roll out as being a definitive result.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"

CJ

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2004, 07:43:24 PM »
OK, I agree.

 YOU GUYS!
PLEASE VOTE!
IT IS EASY!

If you do not know how to vote, ask!
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html


HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2004, 07:58:51 PM »
Personally, I don't claim to be right about this and whichever of the numerous possibilities I look at I can see pro's and con's.

Firstly I don't think we need "personalities" to attract people to forums........we already have our own "stars"..........Kev, Jakob, some guy called CJ, PRR, Gus......the list goes on (apologies to those whose name isn't here  :wink: ).  This last week has shown the amazing "community spirit" that exists here and I somehow doubt that we need to do anything other than intelligently help this site grow and develop.

Also, for example, I don't see speakers warranting there own forum........there normally isn't that many posts about them, they could easily slot into a "General Purpose" kind of sub-forum.  If as you kind of admitted, there will be need to reorganise, do we do so on the basis of sub-forums for gear type (pre's, comps, etc., supplemented with a General Purpose sub-forum) or do we look at sub-forums for the most popular projects (1176, La2, SSL, etc., plus the obligatory GenPurpose thing) or is there another suitable alternative.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"

CJ

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2004, 08:23:40 PM »
We would have to look at the posts and determine a new catagory that would roughly split the threads in half.
Not an easy thing to determine!

The only thing I can think of is Solid State/Vacuum Tube.

But that idea got trashed already.

Keep thinking. We will figure it out.

 :guinness:

Oh yeah,:

VOTER APATHY WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AT THE LAB!
EITHER VOTE ON THIS, OR YOUR OUT OF THE FORUM!

psyche!

 :grin:
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

ikiru

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2004, 11:40:15 PM »
I have a few thoughts on this issue.

In regard to newbies(aka me) I find the single forum format to be highly beneficial. I recall my first reaction to the cnc-zone site as total bewilderment, I didn't really know which section I wanted to look in. TT on the other gave the fordist choice, and you know what, black cars are real nice so are single section forums.  I would constantly realize that I was interested in things that I either a) had never found interesting the in past or b) that I had never even thought about.  This aspect alone is invaluable.

I understand some division such as the black market. I am even hesitant about the off topic area, but I understand the purpose. I just think that the one section format of the place really adds to the good 'vibe'.


Also I don't think the forum moves to fast, if it does...just goto the second page...


 :thumb:

HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2004, 12:02:54 AM »
I attempted to approach this not from what I personally would prefer but from what I know from experience normally works and I had hoped that others would do the same.  From re-reading the posts it appears that a lot of comments are an expression of personal preferences.

I think from here on it should be left with admin to consider the options and make a decision as to what may be best to do.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"

mnats

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2004, 03:49:41 AM »
Quote from: "HiString"
CJ, are you saying that it isn't compulsory to vote in govt., elections in the US? I guess I'm just used to a voting system where the result is a true indicator of public opinion.


First of all, I really appreciate that you care. You're obviously passionate about wanting the forum to be even better than it already is and I truly appreciate that.

You want what's best for the forum, not something based on people's personal preferences. Do you really think that having people vote who couldn't give a toss one way or the other is a good way to find out what's best for the forum, considering the way most voted seemed to be based on their personal preferences?

I think I agree with CJ that the result probably is indicative of what the broader opinion would be. Maybe you could change it and see if the "silent majority" suddenly become interested!

The best thing about this forum so far is that these things get discussed, even without a specific political or voting forum. The scenaria scenario played out without a drop of blood spilled and with an overall positive result, I think. I also noticed that two new forums (brewery and black market) have emerged so far without a single complaint (AFAIK) and without a formal vote!

I'm going to visit as long as the place exists, regardless of what format this place takes. I agree, leave it with Admin. Seems as though good decisions are being carried out anyway.

HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2004, 11:38:29 PM »
mnats,

As I said, I think from here on it should be left to Admin who may like to consult with the likes of Kev, PRR, Gyraf, CJ, etc.........hopefully, we may see a trial run of the "sub-forum" system to give everyone a taste of how it may work...........then opinions can be based on fact as it relates to this BBS.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"

PRR

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2004, 07:30:42 PM »
> In order to have a subdivision be sucessful, you have to have someone there who is a major attraction.

No.

Who was the "star" at RO TechTalk? Kev? He's a great guy but not a star act.

Yes, a "star" is -ONE- possible root of a forum or section. But I know several forums and sections with no star at all. People have questions. Other people have answers and like to share knowledge.

And "star talent" is such a pain. They don't show up, when they do they insult everybody, or they get insulted and sulk.

I'd say the "star" of a forum like this one is the gear. Perhaps LA2 and 1176 sections are a way to go.

sismofyt

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2004, 07:59:40 PM »
I think the 'star factor' have proven not to work, just look at the musicplayer forums (Massenburg, Cheney & Nichols :roll: )

We have plenty of lumminaires here, they come and go as they pleases. Works like a charm, doesn't it?

I see no point in sub forums right now, christ, we're only like 400 people and three weeks old  :!:

sismofyt

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2004, 08:10:07 PM »
Also, I certainly don't rate the succes of this forum by the number of members. RO have like, what 16K members and besides techtalk, it was/is the lamest pro audio forum on the net, besides homerecording. That's just my opinion of course.

This place will be succesfull with a tight community, loads of projects gettin' done, hardcore designers chippin' in, group buys to make the parts manufactures sweat, revival of classic techniques (so they won't get lost forever) and some brilliant new thinking. Just like we're doing right now.

The three seperate forums are a really good idea. I'm glad FS/WTB threads are not cluttering up The Lab and we need an OT place for people like me who always go way OT  :roll:  :green:

If The Lab look like this in five years, I'm happy :thumb:

And NO freakin' coorporate takeover, no serverswapping and no nazi owners  :twisted:

It's just uhmm.. perfect now :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

'nuff rambling. It's bedtime.... later friends :wink:

HiString

HiString's Poll: Separate forums?
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2004, 08:30:41 PM »
The Lab forum by itself now runs for 10 pages with information spread from one end to the other (colloquially speaking "from arsehole to breakfast time :grin:  )..........and it's only going to get worse.  Putting major projects into their own individual sub-forums ensures that information won't disappear into the ethers and will always be easily accessed.

 :cool:
"Humans are analogue beings"

"Digital information lasts forever......................or maybe five years.

Whichever comes first"


 

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