B-ringer Cybermix CM 8000 as summing mixer

I've been reading all threads about passive summing mixers and plan to build one.

Now, I have access to a B-ringer Cybermix CM 8000, which I have never tried, just opened it up today.
It's a 32 in-/out, unbalanced, midi controlled, mute/volume automation rack unit.
It has inserts on each channel and the volume automation is controlled by THAT 2159 vca's.
The ins/outs are combined on 1/4" TRS.



I got an idea of creating an internal passive summing network from the individual outputs and add two xlr's on the back. This way I can send optimum signal levels through the individual outs of the daw (for full 24 bit), and control levels with the vca's instead.

My question is: Has anyone here any experience of the cybermix? How does it sound and would you guys consider it a good idea?

Grateful for any response!

Hmm, that figures, after all it's a b-ringer... Guess I'll just use the case and TRS connectors with the connector board then and make it a balanced summing mixer (have to get rid of the b. screen print. And yes, the vca's will come in handy for my future GSSL's!

Too, bad though, it seemed like a good idea in my head. I guess replacing the TL074's won't improve the sound much right?

Thanks for the response!

Too, bad though, it seemed like a good idea in my head. I guess replacing the TL074's won't improve the sound much right?

Click to expand...

That's probably not the only thing that needs to be changed in order to make it sound good. I don't have any experience with this unit personally, but I think that you have a great idea there. Maybe we could design something similar around the Cybermix that would actually be useful...

Is there a schematic for this?

/Anders

Sounds like a good idea just to get such a box for its case. You do have all I/O on the front then though.

BTW, for reasons unknown to me there's not a single CM-8000 download left on the Beh.-site (yes, I've just been there and I survived, we should make T-shirts of that :wink: )

Yep, tried searching the b site too.
If anyone has a pdf of the manual or the software, please drop me a PM. I'd like to try it out before I put the torch to it and thus I need the midi implementation. Maybe I'll keep 16 ch in working condition.

coming up..

I don't have a CM8000, but I was interested once. If I remember correctly, you can't control the thing via MIDI. The original software used the serial port.

It should be midi-able:

From:

http://www.aage.dk/default.asp?page=/nytforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43042;PN=1

..In Danish, here's a rough translation:

Cybermix reacts to MIDI messages starting with 9 (NoteON) and operates on channel 1.

Hex:
900000 is max volume channel 1
90007F is min volume channel 1
900100 is max volume channel 2
90017F is min volume channel 2
and so on..

MUTE function is on hex 8..... (NoteOFF)

Velocity is the current fader-value.

www.midisolutions.com MIDI Mapper useable for wrapping standard control-changes into this.

Jakob E.

Thanks Jakob!

gyraf said:

It should be midi-able:

From:

http://www.aage.dk/default.asp?page=/nytforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43042;PN=1

..In Danish, here's a rough translation:

Cybermix reacts to MIDI messages starting with 9 (NoteON) and operates on channel 1.

Hex:
900000 is max volume channel 1
90007F is min volume channel 1
900100 is max volume channel 2
90017F is min volume channel 2
and so on..

MUTE function is on hex 8..... (NoteOFF)

Velocity is the current fader-value.

www.midisolutions.com MIDI Mapper useable for wrapping standard control-changes into this.

Jakob E.

Click to expand...

Hmm, I'm currently looking into using this thing from cubase, and I found this old thread while googling. Jakob, can you tell me more about this ? The link you posted doesn't work anymore. I tried it even though I don't speak Danish, maybe I'd understand some words of it, haha.

As reply to what you've written here, yesterday I did some tests with my cybermix, I hoped I'd be able to get the cybermix running from within cubase, so I'd also be able to use a midicontroller for controlling the cybermix. This is what I "tried". (let me add, I don't know much about serial ports, or data running through it. I even had to solder a cable for it, and the pinouts for the cable weren't as easy accessible as I'd think....!)

Okay, first I connected the Cybermix thru the serial cable to the computer, and connected the midioutput of the CM to my midiinterface. I started the pc, installed the cybermix software , and launched it. I also opened MIDI-OX for capturing the mididata, (and I recorded the data in Cubase as well). The signals from channels 33 to whatever came in, but not from channels 1-32. Not so strange, since the 1st unit should be connected to the serial port, and MIDI is used for daisychaining 3 more CM units to the automation system (according to the CM software). No biggie yet, I thought I'd use the mididata for the ch 33 to 64 instead, to control the CM unit. I run the sequence again, recorded it in cubase.

Then, I shut down the computer, took off the serialconnector, attached the Midicable from the midiinterface to the midi-input of the CM, restarted the computer, and tried to get the vca automation working from cubase. It didn´t work. Maybe the internal midi interface of the cybermixunit sends an extra signal through midi to the other, daisychained cybermix units ?!? or would a special midi/data signal sent from the cm software be needed ?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Oh, before I get replies about how bad it sounds and such, I already know, no worries. I'm going to use the CM for controlling the VCA's in my console.... Well, at least.... that's the plan.

That automation thingy used to give me all kinds of grief, and what was worse, the mix used to lose presence and punch going through it.
I recently built a 16 input (active) summing mixer. Not a single cap in the signal path. It's very interesting how the mix sounds through it.

hi,

i got the cm 8000 as well. i used the vca's for various gssl's. but im planning to use the nice frontplate together with all those  stereo jacks and a neumann V475 as a nice summing box. will post pictures when i got anything to show.

cheers
max

High!

I recently bought a CM8000 and very interested in the modification. At first I planned (hoped) to mod it to some kind of a total recall summing mixer, but I heard that VCA mixers suck, so I'll take the VCAs out to build GSSLs, while I would be very interested in your ideas on building a passive mixer. As I interpreted it, you only want to use the box, and front panel of the Cybermix and connect it to the neumann v475 for summing. Did I getr it right? Why did you choose the v475?

Btw I have a german manual for the CM8000!

A service manual?

In that case - please email a copy to [email protected] !

Jakob E.

ftp://all-electric.com/behringer-cybermix-cm8000-data/

Not a service manual, but it does contain the 2159 VCA datasheet.

Yesterday I've been busy figuring out the circuit. The TL074's are for the control voltage, not for audio. The audiopath is  quite short by the way. It goes through one resistor, straight into the VCA. The output from the VCA goes via one single opampstage of the 4580D and  a couple of resistors and caps, to the outputconnector.

I'll draw the audio circuit soon, and post it here.

Cybermix v1.3 software
* Cybermix v1.4 sw-update invalid/lost link *
Cybermix manual (de)

It is midi-able ! Just as Jakob said.

But there is a bit more that needs to be done before it'll work.

I captured the midiinfo that is sent by the CM software during launch. All the fadercontrols are on midichannel 9, although there are also other codes sent by the CM software for write/read modes among other cybermixsoftware features..... I don't understand why this has to be sent to the CM unit. But it doesn't matter, I won't use it anyway. Funny thing to mention, you actually use the channels that are specified as fader 33 to 64 in the CM software. I don't know if several CM's can be stacked if a serialcable isn't used, I also haven't checked the smpte stuff.... Damn, I'm just so happy that the riddle is cracked, that I want to share my joy here, before continuing the testingstuff.

Anyhow, you have to send the start-up midisequence to the cybermixunit before you can control the vca's from your daw, without the need of the serial cable.

Okay, next thing I have to do is to find out how I can adjust the VCA steeringcircuit to be able to connect it to my console. The controlvoltage used in my console vary from -13,5V to +1,2 v, (where the fadermodule and the VCA/Pan module are connected), in the CM the total range is less than 1 volt. I don't like to modify the modules, but if there's no other way....

Oh, this is a bit off topic....
c-ya,
Paul

helterbelter said:

It is midi-able ! Just as Jakob said.

But there is a bit more that needs to be done before it'll work.

I captured the midiinfo that is sent by the CM software during launch. All the fadercontrols are on midichannel 9, although there are also other codes sent by the CM software for write/read modes among other cybermixsoftware features..... I don't understand why this has to be sent to the CM unit. But it doesn't matter, I won't use it anyway. Funny thing to mention, you actually use the channels that are specified as fader 33 to 64 in the CM software. I don't know if several CM's can be stacked if a serialcable isn't used, I also haven't checked the smpte stuff.... Damn, I'm just so happy that the riddle is cracked, that I want to share my joy here, before continuing the testingstuff.

Anyhow, you have to send the start-up midisequence to the cybermixunit before you can control the vca's from your daw, without the need of the serial cable.

Okay, next thing I have to do is to find out how I can adjust the VCA steeringcircuit to be able to connect it to my console. The controlvoltage used in my console vary from -13,5V to +1,2 v, (where the fadermodule and the VCA/Pan module are connected), in the CM the total range is less than 1 volt. I don't like to modify the modules, but if there's no other way....

Oh, this is a bit off topic....
c-ya,
Paul

Click to expand...

Very very impressive! You have already helped a lot! Thanx! What do you think, would the changing of the caps improve the sound?

Most probably changing 4580 opamps to something more decent like 5532 or even mc3378 would do more to the sound than changing caps alone....
All those 100n ceramic caps in those older B. units are crap if I memorize my measurements correctly.
Electros were Jamicon in my unit, which were bad as well at this time.
Just a week ago I had to order psu caps for an active subwoofer, where those jamicons went bad as well after less than 10 yrs in a supposedly decent circuit (cabasse).
Changing to nichicon may be a good idea.
I slaughtered one of these units for the vca's only....but still have another one that I never used.
Changing caps and opamps might be a hell of a work...
I guess the CM8000 was a ripoff from Mackies Ultramix (the automation unit addon of the LM3204 rackmixer). Did the Ultramix sound any good? If yes, than maybe part changes could do st good to the CM8000, otherwise I guess it's not worth the hassle.....

Kind regards,
Martin