DIY active electronics or inline preamp for Banjo

I should add that we have a Baggs endorsement, so we've tried that on every instrument that we have- a plethora of amplified acoustic instruments. It works great on the banjo and the guitar. Considerably less than great on the dobro and mandolin. I've never even tried one on my upright bass. We tried the B-Band on the acoustic guitar and it sounded dreadful, but absolutely amazing on the dobro. I'd say it's worth a shot on the banjo, but I can personally vouch for the fidelity of the ole' LR Baggs (on the banjo). Also, I'm pretty sure that the actual piezo element is on the top of the bridge, with the strings laying on top of it, rather than under the foot of the bridge. ALSO, I'd be remiss to not underscore the positive effects of the Avalon DI on every instrument that we use them on- guitar, bass, banjo, and fiddle.

I play banjo, among other things, and I use one of the much-maligned piezo pickups. I play an open-backed 5-string and I like the way the piezo sounds, but open backs aren't nearly as loud or piercing as resonator (bluegrass) banjos. I'm guessing that your dad plays bluegrass?

I got the cheapest store-bought piezo pickup I could find ($25), and that's only because at the time I didn't know I could rip open one of those annoying musical greeting cards and make one out of the piezo element inside those things! I stuck the element under the foot of the bridge and it seems to work pretty well. I'm playing sort of non-banjo music with it (for an example of the music, with banjo, you can listen to the song on http://music.myspace.com/magovistamusic ). I'm not trying for a "sweet and pure" sound obviously. The song on the MySpace page has three tracks of banjo, one direct, and two through an old Princeton and it's purposely hot sounding. The thing I like about the piezo pickup - that your dad probably hates - is that I can get AWESOME, and pretty controllable, feedback with it. Way more controllable than with an electric guitar.

I also play upright bass and I have two basses with Gage Realist pickups on them. They're fantastic piezo pickups developed by David Gage and Ned Steinberg, that are fitted under the bridge foot. The piezo element is sandwiched between two layers of copper foil. No noise, no interference problems, and plenty of output. Some people use them with a preamp (I don't), but they're designed not to need one. Gage has started making them for violin and mandolin, and I wouldn't be surprised if the violin one works pretty well for banjo. However, for your dad, it's probably about the most expensive option of the lot - $180. I don't know what kind of piezo element is in the Gage pickups, but maybe you could play around with some elements and copper foil to see if you can make one that sounds better than what he's got now. Piezo elements cost almost nothing - could be a fun experiment.

There's another bass pickup called the Revolution Solo that has been getting rave reviews. It has a piezo element embedded (or sandwiched or something) in sprucewood and fitted in the wings of the bridge. Something similar could be done for a banjo bridge maybe.

well, if he wants to keep the piezo, than don tillman has a little preamp that's GREAT! look him up on google.

also - radio shack (yes, i said it) has a little lapel mic that sounds really good for around 30 dollars. i know it sounds cheesy, but it really does sound good and it's really catching on in popularity with players that know about them.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102927&cp=&kw=microphone&parentPage=search

it has a clip, but some people just find the best spot and then they velco them.

some people have modded them to where the battery box is in the same box as a xlr out, and some have even put an AC adapter...

Thanks for all the perspectives. I thought when I posted that no one would be interested. How wrong I was. :green:

I'm convinced that a properly mounted piezo would sound good. I will pass this along and see if my Dad wants to shell out the cash. Maybe that will be his birthday present or something, a bridge-mounted pickup.

For now I'm running with the condenser mic idea. I bet that Radieu Shack mic is really similar to what I'm cooking up with a Panasonic omni capsule.

[quote author="skipwave"]Thanks for all the perspectives. I thought when I posted that no one would be interested. How wrong I was. :green:

I'm convinced that a properly mounted piezo would sound good. I will pass this along and see if my Dad wants to shell out the cash. Maybe that will be his birthday present or something, a bridge-mounted pickup.

For now I'm running with the condenser mic idea. I bet that Radieu Shack mic is really similar to what I'm cooking up with a Panasonic omni capsule.[/quote]

then again, he could pull a del mccoury.....just one big mic for everyone....



also - the tape op electret mic article is very good to, and you could incorporate that as well. the only issue that i could see was if he was running lound monitors he could have some feedback issues if he wasnt careful.

another option i think i remember seeing was on the stewart-mcdonald site, i think they have a pickup for banjos over there.

best of luck-

[quote author="Lo-Fi"]then again, he could pull a del mccoury.....just one big mic for everyone....[/quote]

Ahh, the best suggestion of all so far - but unfortunately no DIY angle! Well.... unless you're up for building the mic, of course!

[quote author="cwileyriser"][quote author="Lo-Fi"]then again, he could pull a del mccoury.....just one big mic for everyone....[/quote]

Ahh, the best suggestion of all so far - but unfortunately no DIY angle! Well.... unless you're up for building the mic, of course![/quote]

There's always a DIY angle: Scodiddly's Big Bluegrass Mic

[quote author="skipwave"][quote author="cwileyriser"]There's always a DIY angle: Scodiddly's Big Bluegrass Mic[/quote]

Cool.

And by the same guy: http://scotthelmke.com/Mint-box-buffer.html

A DIY piezo buffer in an Altoids box.

[quote author="skipwave"][quote author="cwileyriser"][quote author="Lo-Fi"]then again, he could pull a del mccoury.....just one big mic for everyone....[/quote]

Ahh, the best suggestion of all so far - but unfortunately no DIY angle! Well.... unless you're up for building the mic, of course![/quote]

There's always a DIY angle: Scodiddly's Big Bluegrass Mic[/quote]

EXACTLY!!!!

[quote author="skipwave"]For now I'm running with the condenser mic idea. I bet that Radieu Shack mic is really similar to what I'm cooking up with a Panasonic omni capsule.[/quote]

It is -- for years they used Panasonic capsules. Don't know if they still do, or if they switched to a Chinese knockoff. Either way, it's a good little mic; I have an older version mounted in my Martin guitar, taking the hint from Martin Carthy, who used one like that for over a decade.

One caveat: on the guitar, mounting with Velcro didn't work at all. Turns out a big chunk of the bass comes in by conduction, so I wound up sticking the mic on the brace under the fingerboard, by the high E string. Don't know if this would apply to a banjo, but keep it in mind.

Two more things to know: this has a 1/8" unbalanced output, so you'll need to wire up an adapter for XLR cables. I connected tip to pin 2, sleeve to pin 3, and connected the cable shield to pin 1 at one end, nothing at the other. This leaves the mic floating, good if the cable gets plugged into phantom-powered inputs.

And if they have two mics at the Shack, get the cheaper one -- that's the one with flatter response.

Peace,
Paul

I'm speaking a lot more from a player's perspective than a builder/experimenter's perspective, because I can play a lot better than I can build at this point - and I'm not that much of a banjo player, so that tells you how bad a builder I am..... But for fun, varied, and super-cheap experimentation, I'd try devising some kind of "piezo sandwich" thing, maybe with different materials for the "bread" to see what different things sound like - softer and harder woods, thin metals, plastic, etc. You'd need so little of each you could afford to try just about anything. I realized I think I said something about the "wings" of the bridge. Of course banjo bridges don't have "wings" like violin family instruments have, but banjo bridges are so cheap, you could buy a few bridges and use a hobby knife or razor blade to cut some slots for the little sandwich to fit into. It'd make more sense for a banjo pickup to be mounted on or in the bridge, rather than under the foot, because banjo bridges can slip pretty easily already, and having some slippery little metal or plastic thing under there wouldn't help, I'm sure.

[quote author="pstamler"][quote author="skipwave"]For now I'm running with the condenser mic idea. I bet that Radieu Shack mic is really similar to what I'm cooking up with a Panasonic omni capsule.[/quote]

It is -- for years they used Panasonic capsules. Don't know if they still do, or if they switched to a Chinese knockoff. Either way, it's a good little mic; I have an older version mounted in my Martin guitar, taking the hint from Martin Carthy, who used one like that for over a decade.

One caveat: on the guitar, mounting with Velcro didn't work at all. Turns out a big chunk of the bass comes in by conduction, so I wound up sticking the mic on the brace under the fingerboard, by the high E string. Don't know if this would apply to a banjo, but keep it in mind.

Two more things to know: this has a 1/8" unbalanced output, so you'll need to wire up an adapter for XLR cables. I connected tip to pin 2, sleeve to pin 3, and connected the cable shield to pin 1 at one end, nothing at the other. This leaves the mic floating, good if the cable gets plugged into phantom-powered inputs.

And if they have two mics at the Shack, get the cheaper one -- that's the one with flatter response.

Peace,
Paul[/quote]

great information...

Somebody beat me to mentioning the Altoids-box piezo buffer, but I'd definitely recommend some kind of active high-impedance buffer no matter what. Maybe borrow a Baggs or Fishman unit just for testing? Anyway, quite often (especially with those cheap disk piezo elements) a good buffer makes a huge difference.

Also, PRR's advice on proper mounting is good. I've fooled around with loose piezo disks, and the sound was terrible when not firmly attached. You can use the temporary gummy poster stickum stuff from office stores for a temporary connection; even better would be under a bridge foot.

well I'm kinda a poor banjo picker. so i've just been using a pintech drum trigger stuck to the head directly underneath the bridge on my banjo. they're like 12 bucks at guitar center. just plug it into a guitar amp or a di and you're set.

granted it doesn't sound that great, but it's a banjer anyhow.