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amperex

Active member
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
35
Location
Michigan
I am new here. This site is very cool to me.

It appears based mostly upon high-end studio mixing & recording?

Second is perhaps mixer & associated gear for live performances?

I have a dumb question. If mixing in a studio, the speaker monitors plus associated gear should be critical- am I correct? I also noticed in my home entertainment audio gear adventures it took many designs with different components & tube swapping to get sonics that fools my mind (brain) of playback vs live (or say close to live performance). Solid-state never got close.

Next, the speakers were a bitch as well. Finally, using Scan-Speak mid-bass & Seas Excel tweeters with proper time alignment using a good crossover design finally worked.

Forget things like subwoofers with Peerless 10" XLR & passive tuned radiators. Produces slow & non-musical sounding inaccurate bass. Anyways a long trip to get it right without spending $20K.

What do you use? or, is just a pair of headphones enough? What about the power amp?
 
Conceptually an interesting topic.
Not going to answer your question directly as what I use is irrelevant.

... that fools my mind (brain) of playback vs live (or say close to live performance). Solid-state never got close.
:roll:
if the recording is of a live performance then it may sound like a live performance
if it is OFF vinyl it just can't have the resp or the dynamic range ...

now we need to split between
sounds just like
and
sounds sort of like

mmmm ?

even the Speakers can not do it all ... I don't think a speaker can really sound like a bugle at 4 feet
I don't think any speaker system in the other room is every convince you that a Grand Piano is in there.

and as for "Solid-State never got close" ... what if everything on stage is driven by Solid State Electronics and the musician comes into your listening room and say
" oh ... :sad: ... you have used tubes ... that's not what I meant for this performance "


These discussions can never lead to or resolve anything while they are left very open in topic and subject.
A interesting one is the head RECORDINGS and the HEADPHONE listening method of a live performance.

SO to cut to the chase
do you want your listening room system to sound like the real thing ?
or
do you want it to sound good ?

Trick question.
Does the recording sound like the resl thing ? Was the recording produced in order to sound like the real thing ?

None of my recordings have ever been produced that way.

Sound for Video or TV is the closest I have got to that and then it was VERY DIFFERENT to the real thing as I wanted it to sound OK in a small 4 inch mono TV set.
 
I wanted it to sound OK in a small 4 inch mono TV set.

That's why the Auratone (and equivalents) is the king in TV-land. We use bigger and much better monitors in our work, some of which many music studio guys would recognize (KRK, Tannoy, JBL), some of which they may not (E-V Sentry). But at the end of the day, it's got to sound good on the Auratones or it doesn't fly :wink:.
 
It does not matter what the musicians use - tube or solid-state for performance as long as the home audio gear accurately reproduces the sonics produced by the musicians.

Tubes are as close as I could get after experimenting over four years. Personally, I could care less if the home entertainment gear is solid-state or tube as long as it sounds accurate. It is not a tubes vs solid-state flamer- just what I experienced.
 
I use a pair of old Apple monitors for my 'jambox' reference. They're also great for getting the right music/vocal balance.

When the mix sounds good on those, I know I'm about done.

JC
 
If mixing in a studio, the speaker monitors plus associated gear should be critical-

You want the best ones you can afford,(or build) and a second (even third)set of cheap ass, so you know what it'll sound like in the average living room. (And, of course, the "mobile studio" sitting in the driveway!) And, as indicated above, good to check the mix in mono, in case you got a big AM radio audience! (As pertains to stereo; 5.1 is another matter.)
 
[quote author="amperex"]It does not matter what the musicians use - tube or solid-state for performance as long as the home audio gear accurately reproduces the sonics produced by the musicians.[/quote]
and what is accuracy ?

does the musicain have the call ?
does the engineer ?
does the producer ?

is a realistic sound what is intended for the recording ?

as I said above ... not when I'm at the controls.
:green:
I could but generally that's not why people come to me.

When live it is larger than life that I'm looking for.
Recorded is something very different and the overall end result and the target audience is very much in mind.
A Green Day album is not about telling the truth.

When live at a Jazz gig I can afford to turn off the copmressors and go for realism if I have headroom to burn ... and I do with my rig.
BUT
for a recording, even with the eventual 16bit dynamic range to work with, it is likely I will compress a great deal because the musicians do expect that sound even if they say they want NO compression.

The standards of RMS levels on playback were set well before I began recording and the trend to FS in the digital is not my idea.

LA1,2and 3 ... Leveling Amplifiers before I was born.
 
Nothing can reproduce a live performance to sound the same as a live performance. Every system adds color & masks some details.

However, I can say with the audio playback system I have one can hear the notes reverberate within a piano cabinet without any effort even if in the soundstage of many instruments at or above the piano volume.

We also believe the resolution is to the point one could recognize the same piano in different songs with regard to its cabinet sonic signature. More than a few audio systems could not clearly reproduce that.
 
[quote author="amperex"]Nothing can reproduce a live performance to sound the same as a live performance. Every system adds color & masks some details. [/quote]
err
:roll:
yes I can
you didn't say which performance
...
A performance through a system that was designed as the instrument will produce the same live as on playback.
YES
I'm being difficult
A Logic Based Sythn Band with IEM and only one vocalist with Total Vocoder effect.

It ALL comes out of the Siftware Synths and in the performance were fingers OR recorded midi notes would be heard the same way.
BUT
this may be very different to the recording made for Radio OR CD audio release and different to Vinyl release

so I think your missing the point of what I am saying.

Gear and systems built for the live performance.

Gear and systems built for playback at home AND then the method of recording and producing with that end point in mind.

Commercial recording is all a cheat
just like Hollywood movie making.
 
Yup. I know of at least one. HINT: one of the judges on Am. Ido. Speaking of which, they had a whole thing on (Inside Edition?) what you're talking about; they took this girl who got voted off Am. Id., and took her to a studio, and turned her into a "singer". (And, let me tell you, her voice was not that good!) But, thanks to the magic. . .
 
Yes, that is the point. Tweak the system for best audio.

Point I was trying to make is one requires a quality audio system to hear differences when testing. For example, using most solid-state amps & lousy speakers will make for such muddy sonics, one can not hear improvements.

Thus, I use an audiophile quality system for playing with mixers, tubes & other components.
 
[quote author="amperex"]No audio playback system will sound exactly the same as live performance.[/quote]

sorry
but that is generalised bull shit

What if the audio system is the performance system ?

and if you use the same room you have exactly the same performance
... you have still not got the point of what I have said

A simple synth based musical performance using something like Logic as the sound production too and a basic sound system.
It doesn't matter if you are listening to the fingers on the keyboard or the Midi Files
the sound you hear is of the same standard.

This same theory goes to guitarists that use units like the POD for their guitar tones.

This all gets more complicated when you delve into the world of dance and club music where people are writing and mixing material totally based on the music system in the specific club

This is similar to the Church Organ music written hundreds of years ago when musical pieces were written for the specific Pipe Organ located in the church where it is housed.
It can be argued that to hear this musical piece correctly you must go to the venue.
No amount of testing and tweaking will make the system present that performance in any shape or form as the writer intended.
 
:green:

that's funny
clocks and sync and time

what is precise time ?

In the past we have used a Radio Frequency Product to align time references.
Then came Telephony Products and this has become computer based server time.
CPU clock cycles with a daily adjustment from an on line specified reference .... somewhere ??

We have just installed a new Station SPG system
, Time of Day, Video Clock and Audio Clock
This one is locked back to a World Wide GPS that is supposed to be accurate enough to do synchronised video switching from a source on the other side of the world.

I doubt that the is will be sample accurate at 48k audio but in the future you never know.

A pair of these with the 1RU auto-change-over unit
http://www.evertz.com/products/5600MSC.php

We currently have a problem with the implementation of the Daylight Savings automatic change.
The Commonwealth Games have postponed our return to Standard Eastern Time.
BUT will the software handle the situation as we are Live to Air during this period ?

interesting

Does anyone know what time it is ?


A musician presents to you a performance and subsequently joins you in your listening room.
" Hey ... what have you don't to my bottom end
Here use my Pre-amp Tube instead "
:green:
who has the right tube ?

I say you have the right tube for YOU .
.. not necessarily the one and only RIGHT tube.
 
But, a group of us hear an accurate system and with ongoing improvements come to the same conclusion as to its sonic performance. We can not measure everything we hear with electronic test equipment, thus do depend upon our ears as the final instrument.

Although an overstatement, a Pyramid PA amplifier played thru computer monitor speakers does not get it for fine tuning with different components and designs.
 

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