CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« on: February 15, 2006, 11:21:21 PM »
Here goes a Marinair 10468 Input Transformer, apparently used in the 1290 Neve preamp.



Seperate thread started at request of donor.
Everybody should mark on their driver's liscense that they want all transformers donated to cj in the event of the un-thinkable.  :grin:

OK, this is the same green can that the 31267 and it's cousins come in.

So I already know whats inside, sans turns.

It's gonna be a dual coil construction on fiber bobbins, brass keepers, L and H  2023 DU lams, and some funky way and epoxy.

Coil structure will most likely be pri-sec

So only the ratio is changing (which changes everything).


Inductance - Pins:

2-4: 9.46 H  DCR - 23.7
3-5: 9.55 H  DCR 24.0
2-5: 32 H

7-9: 35.3 H  DCR -  139.5 ohms
8-10: 35.3 H  DCR - 136.0 ohms

Full Pri in series: 32 H
Full Sec in series: 125.6 H

Leakage:

2-4 > 7 & 9 short  2.57 mH  
2-4 > 8 & 10 short  39.9 mH  (8 & 10 must be on other bobbin)

3-5 same

2-5 > 7 & 9 short 40.4 mH
2-5 > 8 & 10 short 40.4 mH

2-5 > 7 & 10 short (full sec shorted) 6.00 mH

7-9 > 3 & 5 short 161 mH  (opposite bobbins again)
7 9 > 2 & 4 short 8.98 mH

8-10 same

7-10 > 3 & 5 short 182.5 mH
7-10 > 2 & 4 short 182.5 mH
7-10 2 & 5 short (full pri shorted) 17.6 mH

Capacitance:

any pri lead to  any sec lead:  about 110 pf
pri to pri: 106 pf
sec to sec: 142 pf
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html


Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2006, 11:28:46 PM »
And with that, my palms begin to sweat.  

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2006, 11:31:06 PM »
I was gonna do a freq sweep until I saw that clip art.
But that will have to wait til tomorrow.

I'm out!

 :razz:
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2006, 12:59:15 AM »
I lied. I'm back.

This is a 1:2 ratio transformer.
Here is the freq plot.
Fisrt and only res at 125 khz, then a quick death. Big peak, 2 volts normal, 21 volts peak!

http://vacuumbrain.com/The_Lab/TA/Marinair/10468/m10468_1.jpg

I did a 1:2 Marinaier already. This one I believe has mor einductance. (jhave to check notes) so, instead of the coil being different, it might be the lams. maybe they switched from 50/50 to 80 Ni. Sure does saturate in a hurry.

ring at 1 khz square type:






BH curves. Does not look like typical permalloy BH, but this core uses no I bars, so it is kind of like a a gapped xfmr only not, if you can relate to my trip.




Saturation occurs at sine: 2.68 vrms and square 2.11  vrms.

Here is mag current at saturation with sq wave:

http://vacuumbrain.com/The_Lab/TA/Marinair/10468/m10468_sat.jpg

Take apart tomorrow.

see ya!

cj
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

clintrubber

Re: Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2006, 04:02:19 AM »
Quote from: "CJ"

Inductance - Pins:

2-4: 9.46 H  DCR - 23.7
3-5: 9.55 H  DCR 24.0
2-5: 32 H

7-9: 35.3 H  DCR -  139.5 ohms
8-10: 35.3 H  DCR - 136.0 ohms

Full Pri in series: 32 H
Full Sec in series: 125.6 H

Leakage:

2-4 > 7 & 9 short  2.57 mH  
2-4 > 8 & 10 short  39.9 mH  (8 & 10 must be on other bobbin)


Getting to grips with some simple TX-measuring so I'm wondering under which conditions the inductances above were measured.

1kHz ?

test-level ?


Thanks,

  Peter

quadwould

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2006, 04:18:03 AM »
Quote from: "CJ"

Take apart tomorrow.

cj



Gah!!!..  Nooooo.. fofr the love of Bob :shock:  :shock:  :shock:




(go on then.  make it quick and painless)
"Feck, Arse, Gurls!" -Father Jack

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2006, 01:00:27 PM »
Peter, I used a BK 875B handheld meter.
Also a Sencore LC53 that works well for leakage measurements.
Also a Gen Rad 1650B which works at 1 khz.

If you had 100 inductance meters, you would get 100 different answers, so the only real value they have is getting you a ballpark figure for Henries and doing comparisons between A and B.

map

cj
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2006, 01:26:32 PM »
Well, this 10468 has T-1444 marked on it also.
I had already done a T-1454, but my tiny brain did not cross referance the p/n's, so I was thinking this was a brand new one for me.    :oops:
After looking at the data I had for the t-1454, I believe that this 1444 is the exact same as the 1544. If anyone has found this not to be true, I can take apart this thing, but otherwise, I will spare it the agony.


I was cool to see that I got the exact same results on the freq graphs, etc, as this blind test verified that the testing is consistent.

This is a very easy transformer to wind, just pri-sec for both coils.
The hard part is getting the bobbins.
I have the company, their address, their email, their part number, but have yet to get them to tell me if they can ship anything.
I think somebody informerd ICM of to the nature of this "project".

If anyone from the UK wants to help me lean on these guys for some Marinair bobbins, that would be awesome!

Contact info:

ICM Ltd - Tel. 01634 298500 - e-mail [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

ask about ZM18902-leads standard.

Anyone near Rochester?

ICM (Plastic Moulding) Ltd
Enterprise Close
Medway City Estate
Rochester
ME2 4LY
Kent
Tel: 01634 298500
Fax: 01634 714338

map

Took me 6 months to track that bobbin down, so any help greatly appreciated!
No questions asked.
And don't tell Tanner!
Thanks!
cj
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2006, 01:54:23 PM »
Yes, after poking around some docs, the 10468 and the T1454 are the same.  


CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2006, 02:12:53 PM »
Yes, and on that other pinout diagram, you will see 1444 and 1454 on the same diagram.

ICM (Plastic Moulding) Ltd
Enterprise Close
Medway City Estate
Rochester
ME2 4LY
Kent
Tel: 01634 298500
Fax: 01634 714338

Again, Need help from UK DIY'ers.

Free T4 for anyone who gets a foot in the door for some samples!!!

p/n ZM18902 - leads standard.

Thanks!
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html


dissonantstring

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2006, 05:32:14 PM »
hey cj,
you are right again!  i just checked tekay's site and his neve transformer cross table says the same thing:
http://www.vintagedesign.se/transformer_cross_table.htm
-grant

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2006, 04:27:46 AM »
Quote from: "CJ"
Yes, and on that other pinout diagram, you will see 1444 and 1454 on the same diagram.

ICM (Plastic Moulding) Ltd
Enterprise Close
Medway City Estate
Rochester
ME2 4LY
Kent
Tel: 01634 298500
Fax: 01634 714338

Again, Need help from UK DIY'ers.

Free T4 for anyone who gets a foot in the door for some samples!!!

p/n ZM18902 - leads standard.

Thanks!

sorted - check my reply in the brewery

alk509

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 07:19:02 AM »
What is that I hear, I hear?
It's the sound of a milling machine I hear, I hear!
Tra-la-la! Tra-la-la Tra-la-la-laaa!
Tra-la-la! Tra-la-la Tra-la-la-laaa!


Peace,
Al.

Lest laziness get the best of you!

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2006, 01:10:22 PM »
ok, so you want carnage, you shall have carnage....
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

rascalseven

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2006, 04:11:53 PM »
CJ

 :shock:

PM'd you.  Please check it.

JC
"If you dig the gig, do it. -But listen to the signal, not the person talking."  -Keef

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2006, 05:30:47 PM »
OK, here are some blood and guts.

The coils sit on a horizontal axis, one stacked over the other.



Thats a two piece brass assy that clips on to lams as a retainer and core pad, to insulate the lams against the outer case:



Getting that brass thingy made might be a hassle:



Those 3 small gray leads must the shields.
Input XFMR = E Shields



Darn lams got leaked on by that stinkin black epoxy!  :twisted:



You can see how the parts go in this pic.
Copper shield around both coils:

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

rascalseven

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2006, 09:26:44 PM »
CJ!

Dude, you're a bastard!  You said you were gonna send that back!  You already did one of these last year, but you couldn't help but hack up another?

You owe me some cash, man!  Do you know what that was worth?  You've been beyond cool until now -- what were you thinking?

That was completely unnecessary.  What an ass.
"If you dig the gig, do it. -But listen to the signal, not the person talking."  -Keef

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2006, 09:28:15 PM »
:oops:  :oops: Now ya tell me.


I was gonna wind you some for free, but screw it.


 :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

rascalseven

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2006, 09:39:40 PM »
Oh, that's funny to you?  You really are a sick bastard.  

Put the torch down and go back to your crack pipe before you hurt yourself!
"If you dig the gig, do it. -But listen to the signal, not the person talking."  -Keef

CJ

Marinair 10468 T1444 Green Meanie Input
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2006, 09:40:51 PM »
Here, glue this back together, pal.   :evil:

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html


 

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