Rossi

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2006, 12:49:50 PM »
Quote from: "Svart"

Maybe the Onyx you got was an evaluation model and the production models are different?


I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. I reviewed it while the unit was already in the stores. I suppose they make a difference between the relatively pricey 800R preamps and the ones in Onyx consoles. The JRC2114 isn't insanely expensive. Profusion sells them @ about 50 cents. And even B*ringer uses the 2SA1316 in their cheapo ADA8000.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"


Rossi

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2006, 12:59:53 PM »
@ Brad: Have you heard of a transistor with the somewhat strange designation 2SV888? It's supposedly another low Rbb type.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

ciminosound

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2006, 01:24:43 PM »
Quote from: "tommypiper"
OK, I'm going to lose all credibility with this one.  :grin:  I have an old Mackie CR-1604.  For those who remember, these were virtually universally loved by everyone in pro audio at the time when they came out - because they were the first of this type of board that sounded "good" or "decent" or whatever (fill in the blank) and were cheap and easy to use, especially for live sound.  It was a minor revolution at the time.  People were recording with them with success, without complaints.


I disagree with minor revolution, I'd say MAJOR revolution. I had been working in MI/ProAudio retail and Mackie destroyed all competition. To get a board with features anywhere near the 1604 you'd spend at least twice as much. Every other company came out with a "Mackie killer", their words not mine. Did it sound like the top of the line (at the time) Yamaha PM2000 we had in rental. NO. For the five piece band making 500 bucks a night in the local bars or the guy recording in his basement with an Adat it was a Godsend.

tommypiper

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2006, 07:36:36 PM »
Chimosound, I totally agree.  :grin:  It was a revoluation at the time.  And people were not tricked by marketing or hype, it really WAS a revolutionary product.  Between the Mackie 1604 and the introduction of ADATs, about 1993, pro audio changed forever.  It was the beginning of the decentralization of recording - tools that regular musicians could afford for the first time.  We forget, but even many commercial studios began selling their 24 tracks and switched to ADATs.  This was the beginning of the long trend which has climaxed in recent years with everyone going to PT and DAWs and working mostly outside major studios.  It was the beginning of the bedroom and basement project studios.  It was a major paradigm shift.  (Similar to what Apple computer brought to desktop publishing.)

Again, with two identical ribbon mics, one on a V76 and one on a Mackie 1604, you'd be amazed how close they do sound.  Obviously the V76 has a bit more depth when you listen carefully, but it's also worth $1k more per channel.  Rossi's point is right on - the cost/performance is remarkable.

I'm glad Rossi has set us all straight.  :guinness:
Imagine a wet, slightly chilled from its gas release and decompression, with water droplets condensing, sucking surface tension, slowly sliding down the side, capped by a healthy virgin froth on top..

Joechris

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2006, 07:52:15 PM »
Is there anybody here that has worked on a onyx, live or in a studio..?
I have done a lot of mixes on a 8 buss mackie, and it sounds like...ehh..music :grin:
Ive heard this new eqs is suposed to be much better??

jo
musicians vary +/-9dB depending on mood, drugs, and line-voltage. (PRR)

MartyMart

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2006, 08:00:14 PM »
Quote from: "Joechris"
Is there anybody here that has worked on a onyx, live or in a studio..?
I have done a lot of mixes on a 8 buss mackie, and it sounds like...ehh..music :grin:
Ive heard this new eqs is suposed to be much better??

jo


Yes, quite recently did some tracking using one.
I thought it sounded great, very "neutral" and I liked the eq.
I've had a 32/8 buss for about 7 years and I love it, it has a slightly
"grainey" texture, which you either like or dont, personally i think that
everything put through it sounds better/bigger in particular tracks from
a DAW  !
Just my 2 c's worth ..

Marty.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"

bcarso

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2006, 09:02:06 PM »
Quote from: "Rossi"
@ Brad: Have you heard of a transistor with the somewhat strange designation 2SV888? It's supposedly another low Rbb type.


No!  I am all ears, as they say.  The "V" is very odd.  I have some varicap diodes that are designated 1SV103, and they happen to be duals at that with common cathodes, hence three leads, but the 2- prefix seems to be reserved for transistors only.

If one is fortunate, one learns something every day.

Svart

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2006, 09:11:19 PM »
B3hringer is already using it..
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

bcarso

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2006, 01:00:09 AM »
Quote from: "Svart"
B3hringer is already using it..


And all the refs on Google are from Behringer blurb sheets in a zillion different languages!  Maybe they got some one to private-label a part for them  :?

Rossi

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2006, 07:06:56 AM »
Yeah, well. I stumbled across this transistor in the said press release by B*ringer.

BUT: B*ringer had 2SB737S in their consoles and preamps (MX8000 and Ultragain 2000) and they have used the 2SA1316 for quite some time now, even in their $250 ADA8000 ADAT pres. So they do have a history of using nice super low Rbb parts in their pres. And since the new Xenix (fell off my chair laughing when I first read the name!) mixer pres are supposedly better than their old ones, I thought this might be an interesting transistor. Couldn't find any info, though.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"


Svart

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2006, 07:25:18 AM »
Quote
Maybe they got some one to private-label a part for them Confused


I wouldn't put it past them.  It's probably cheaper to let China do the whole thing.  I bet that it's an identical design with a few *better* parts.  I mean how many different ways can you make a BJT impedence converter and opamp gainstage?

 :shock:
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

cuelist

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2006, 10:50:18 AM »
Tobias,

Looking at the parts in isolation does not really give you a foundation for judging the performance of the circuit and whether or not it meets the specification that they have published.

Some of the world best sounding and renowned circuits are made up from "cheap" components. Exotic parts with impressive figures on a datasheet does not guarantee exceptional performance.

Eric Clapton would kick ass with a $200 guitar I am sure...

Finally this PR blurb on the Mackie site almost had me falling of the chair:

"But hey, don't take our word for it... just listen to what Monty Lee Wilkes, FOH Engineer for Britney Spears, had to say: "Holy crap! ... I have to admit that the Onyx preamps sounded phenomenal."

I had the displeasure of hearing his work on a Britney concert and it must have been most awful sounding piece of garbage I have ever been subjected to. Monty is perhaps the "Eddier Kramer of live sound".
Mr K

Rossi

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2006, 11:22:12 AM »
You could make Britney sound much better if you just moved down her fader a few inches. :roll:  Or really awsome, even, if you hit the mute button  :green:  

BTW. The German ads for Mackie's Onyx producs had several bad typos. Both in their main slogan (claiming perfection :oops: in bold print) and in the product name. Onyx was misspelt Onxy. :oops:  :oops: A few guys even thought they did it on purpose to make people look at the ad for a while. But  in last month's magazines Mackie corrected their spelling mistakes.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

SSLtech

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2006, 11:52:00 AM »
Having attended several of Britney's sessions, I have to say that she's really not a bad singer at all... -and that I can think of less aesthetically pleasing people to work with!

-I know it's terribly politically incorrect, but the engineer on one paricular session set the mic up in a dark studio area, directly beneath a single down-shining spotlight. He had also cranked the Air Conditioning some time earlier until it was very[/u] chilly in the room, then dimmed the control room lighting and sent her out to the studio area.

The resut of a suddenly super-chilled Britney under direct overhead lighting was... ummmm.... 'outstanding'! :shock:

...I have to add that the same experiment performed today would not produce the same quality result.. :?

Keef
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind"
Quote from: PRR
Ah, but that was 1999; we don't party like that any more.

cuelist

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2006, 11:57:18 AM »
Quote from: "Rossi"
You could make Britney sound much better if you just moved down her fader a few inches. :roll:  Or really awsome, even, if you hit the mute button  :green:  


Maybe she had a bad day, but seriously, the whole show sounded awful. When she sang a ballad on her own (?) at the piano, her voice sounded like it a was 90% reverb and the piano was all low mids. Meanwhile Monty seemed more attentive to the two buxom blondes he had invited FOH.

Oh well...
Mr K

alk509

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2006, 12:00:06 PM »
Quote from: "Rossi"
Let's face it: People like to bash the likes of Mackie, B*ringer etc, because it makes them look like pros.


And then:

Quote from: "Rossi"
You could make Britney sound much better if you just moved down her fader a few inches. :roll:  Or really awsome, even, if you hit the mute button  :green:


Practice what you preach, son! :razz:

Peace,
Al.

Lest laziness get the best of you!

NewYorkDave

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2006, 12:05:39 PM »
IMHO, it's more work to produce a good-sounding mix on a Wackie, but it can be done. They're not outstanding mixers, but they're also not the horrible pieces of sh*t that some people claim they are. As always, good ears/hands can make better records on mediocre tools than hack ears/hands on excellent tools. You learn the strengths and weaknesses of your gear and you play to the strengths and find ways around the weaknesses. In the case of a Wackie, this usually entails keeping the buss levels lower than you might with some other mixers, and avoiding excessive use of the EQ. Some consoles sound better when they're pushed; just remember that the Wackie is not one of them :wink:

This is based on my experience with the older models; I've never used an Onyx.

SSLtech

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2006, 01:52:21 PM »
Quote from: "NewYorkDave"
This is based on my experience with the older models

...So there you have it.

New york Dave and I have had experience with washed-up former sex-kittens; but in his case it's former models and in my case it's former teen-pop-stars! :twisted:  

 :wink:

Keef
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind"
Quote from: PRR
Ah, but that was 1999; we don't party like that any more.

Rossi

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2006, 02:05:23 PM »
Quote from: "alk509"
Quote from: "Rossi"
Let's face it: People like to bash the likes of Mackie, B*ringer etc, because it makes them look like pros.


And then:

Quote from: "Rossi"
You could make Britney sound much better if you just moved down her fader a few inches. :roll:  Or really awsome, even, if you hit the mute button  :green:


Practice what you preach, son! :razz:

Peace,
Al.


Yeah well, at least I know I'm not a good singer.  :razz:

Plus, I don't qualify as a real pro in the first place, because I don't really see Britney's appeal. Okay, she's certainly not ugly, but she doesn't look that special to me. I guess that means I'd make a bad talent scout. There's obviously millions who are more than willing to buy her records and tickests for her shows.
"I am not a number, I'm a free man!"
"Hahahahaaaaaa!!!!!"

JustinS

Mackie ONYX ... the truth: a big fake!
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2006, 03:38:19 PM »
Quote from: "NewYorkDave"
IMHO, it's more work to produce a good-sounding mix on a Wackie, but it can be done.


I was reading an interview with the Producer/Engineer on one of John Mayer's albums who said that a couple of rough mixes done on a Mackie 32x8 (being used as a monitor board while tracking to tools through a bunch of nice pres) ended up as final mixes on the album... This is after redoing the mixes in tools with nice outboard inserts etc...

I'm not a huge John Mayer fan, but he does what he does well, and his records always sound good.

The Producer commented that he thought the limitations of the board, and the speed that those limititations gave to the mixing process produced some really nice results.

Justin


 

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