JW

Need answers to questions concerning power.
« on: March 03, 2006, 04:00:35 PM »
1. What's the difference between voltage regulation and line conditioning, if there is one?

2. Is it okay to run everything off of 1 outlet? (3 tube pres/ a couple small racks of about five pieces of solid state gear each. Yamaha PM1000 board. Nearfield powered monitors. couple tube guitar amps)

3. UPS units. I have 2 APC UPS units that I've been using. I just read on a gearslutz thread that they're a real tradeoff and can affect the sound in a bad way.
I'd like to hear others' opinions too.

4. If I got a reasonably good power conditioner, what do you guys think of plugging the UPS units into that? (running everything off of 1 outlet)

5.What is the first best thing a rentor w/ not much cash do to to attain a reasonably consistent voltage?


CJ

Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 04:40:14 PM »
UPS takes a 12 volt batt up to 120 with a chopper=switcher=gremlins inside

What you ultimately want is a clean sine wave that stays at the same voltage and frequency.

Voltage regulation takes care of the voltage, all the other stuff goes under "conditioning".

A marketing word for the people who just fell off the technical hay wagon.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

JW

Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 06:01:17 PM »
Oh,

That's another thing I was wondering about. The UPS' that I bought were fairly cheap, though heavy, for what it's worth.

I wasn't under the impression that they were cleaning up power in any way. I just have them because in additon to a surge supressor, I thought having a battery kick in when the voltage goes out/low was additional protection.

That is what they are doing right? They aren't running off the battery all the time are they? I thought it was just like a standard surge-suppressing power strip until the power goes off/brown.
So, in that regard, what's wrong with UPS'?

CJ

Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 06:07:49 PM »
uninterupted power supply means the unit kicks in when you lose power.
the rest of the time, there is a trickle charger on the battery, but the switcher is not working.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so nobody else can!
Frank's Tube Page: www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/vs.html
Guitar Amps: http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

Freq Band

Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2006, 09:11:49 PM »
You can get a UPS that runs off the battery, all the time, and produces a " pure sine wave"......so they say. But it'll co$t you.
I am thinking of getting one, if I find some money underneath a park bench.
---------------------

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2949&print=yes

"...actively converts raw incoming AC power to DC, then re-converts output back to completely regulated, filtered AC output."
----------------------


=FB=
Facebook is an unfortunate way to receive news, and a good place to receive rumors.

Freq Band

Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2006, 12:35:12 AM »
...just came across this DIY "dual conversion" UPS......and it's just gorgeous...

http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm


-=FB=-
Facebook is an unfortunate way to receive news, and a good place to receive rumors.

bobkatz

Poor Man's power line RFI filter?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 09:42:40 AM »
Hi, guys. Someone just told me that an AC capacitor, say an 0.68 uF film across the line at the outlet can reduce RFI (say from a switching power supply) getting back into the audio system. Seems like voodoo. What do you think of that?  What do you think of the Tripplite multi-outlet boxes with varying degrees of isolation built in (I suspect LRC type)?

chrissugar

Re: Poor Man's power line RFI filter?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 11:20:20 AM »
Hi, guys. Someone just told me that an AC capacitor, say an 0.68 uF film across the line at the outlet can reduce RFI (say from a switching power supply) getting back into the audio system. Seems like voodoo.

Why do you think it is voodoo?
The cap is like a shortcircuit for high frequency noise on the powerline. Until recently I plugged in 3,3uf wima capacitors (parallel with 250Kohm resistor to discharge the cap when pulled out) in some outlets of my power distribution box. Now I have a capacitor across each outlet inside the box.
I'm 100% sure that I'm not halucinating and the whole system sounds cleaner and with more details than without them.
When I had before just those plugs, from time to time I pulled them out for a couple of days just to check if it is not my a problem with my perception. Every time the results were consistent.

chrissugar

P.S. Bob, I would like to ask you some details about your OCL-2 mod offline if possible.
Christian Mike Sugar
        CMS-LAB

bobkatz

Re: Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 11:28:36 AM »
Chris, just write me directly at bobkatz[atsign]digido.com com about the OCL-2.

chrissugar

Re: Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 11:31:12 AM »
Thank you, I will.

chrissugar
Christian Mike Sugar
        CMS-LAB


nielsk

Re: Need answers to questions concerning power.
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 10:55:47 PM »
All UPS units used in an audio system should be "fully on line" (this means it is always running 100% off the battery, otherwise there is a switch-over time & glitch) and fully sine wave regulated ouput. Otherwise they can cause more problems than they solve.
UPS is important if you have regular power drop outs, if you have voltage variations, a buck / boost transformer- cap bank type regulator is the ticket

gswan

Re: Poor Man's power line RFI filter?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 05:19:06 PM »
Hi, guys. Someone just told me that an AC capacitor, say an 0.68 uF film across the line at the outlet can reduce RFI (say from a switching power supply) getting back into the audio system. Seems like voodoo. What do you think of that?  What do you think of the Tripplite multi-outlet boxes with varying degrees of isolation built in (I suspect LRC type)?

A cap such as this (X or Y type) will attenuate differential-mode noise either going into or coming out of your equipment. Its effectiveness depends on how much noise you expect on your power line, however with all kinds of control switching tones superimposed on mains these days you never know what might be there. To reduce common-mode interference (ie same signal on both active and neutral wires) a common-mode choke is often used as well as caps to ground (however you need a really good ground connection for this to work properly). There are may filter units which have common mode chokes and capcitors in them (quite a few IEC mains input modules have them), so it ca be an easy thing to add.

Another option is to clean it up on the secondary side of the transformer, in your power supply. Often the voltages are smaller here and can be more aggressively attenuated without the problem of leakage currents tripping your RCD protection devices. Various types of capacitors and configurations, ferrites, common mode chokes etc can be employed in a PSU where there is a suspicion of excessive noise on the incoming mains.

-Geoff


 

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