Vintage valve radio into valve guitar amp

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datape

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
63
Location
UK
Hi, I have a 1946 Murphy Radio I found lying on the the street. It powers up, and all the valves glow, but it doesnt really work.

I dont care about that because I want to cannablise it into a big fat valve guitar amp.

Heres a pic.

A104_thumb.jpg


and another

Its a big bastard though, over half a meter wide.

Heres the schematic

http://www.murphy-radio.co.uk/diagrams/A104.jpg

I know nothing whatsover about valves, but could this be made into some sort of guitar amp?

How can i check if the valves still work? They all glow, but one seems a bit loose at the base.
 
When answering posts that say "I know nothing about valves" followed by " I want to do this with valves", it is customary to offer the obvious, but required warning to observe the uttermost caution when approaching tubes and tube devices. High Voltage can turn you into a Dead Person.

ok

You can do what you want by replacing many bad capacitors and finding the spot near the volume control to interrupt and insert a 1/4" jack. On the schematic, lift "C29' and connect your tip of the 1/4" jack to where it went on the volume control (also marked "p.u.") , if ya do get this thing talking.

Tubes may need replacement also. Start with a schematic, a meter and one hand in your pocket. Find what voltages are ok and which ones arent.

Also, If you are going to connect a wire attached to your guitar (and body) to it, add a grounded power cord that has it's green wire bonded to the chassis. :cool:
 
thanks for the reply. i'll ground the thing immediately.

I just soldered a jack input onto the P.U terminals. P.U comes off C29 and must be an input. Well it works and I can play a guitar through it, but it doesnt get very loud. How can i get power out of this thing?
 
it is actually grounded, and a lot of caps seem to have been replaced at some point. its just got quiter though.
 
Lift c 29 completely. Try a guitar pre thru it. It may not have enough stages. Although "pu" means "pickup" which in their case means phono pickup.

Tubes may be soft.
 
anybody know of anybody who died from a tube project?
just curious.
in 40 yrs of DIY electronics, I have not heard of one person.

or died from just eletrocuton in general?

it can't be that high a number?

i know of a monkey who died because the stupid owner had it on a steel leash, and
it went for a climb on the power pole.
Bar B Q ed monkey.
shock the monkey, you bet.

i think it would be faster to start building a tube amp from scratch rather than tear into that radio.

not a lot of parts in there that will cross over.

you need a new pwr trans so you don't have a 120 heater string.

the cabinat is cool though.
 
Probably the most well-known casualty of electrocution by a guitar amp is Keith Relf from the Yardbirds. (Contrary to popular myth, he was not electrocuted in the bathtub, but rather while playing guitar in his home studio).

Personally, I've had a couple of shocks that could have done me in if I had been in poorer health at the time. Also, don't forget, part of the danger of electrocution comes from the involuntary reflex action--you might not die from the electricity but you might be badly injured by falling backwards off your chair!
 
My dad had a TV Repair shop. He never wore a watch. But he had a cigar box full of busted ones from sticking his hand inside a tv set and smashing them against the inside top of the cabinet upon getting poked, lol. (cabinets were wood then)

PRR's extra stage there looks pretty good, datapes. That should shred. :grin:

"Component values subject to alteration without notice" .. funny, PRR.
 
[quote author="CJ"]
or died from just eletrocuton in general?
[/quote]

yup, I knew someone that got fried. not super common, but it happens.

Once I found a little tube mono reel to reel with a speaker in it. early 50s japanese, I think. I had the same idea, was thinking of turning it into a guitar amp. first thing I did was take the wire off the playback head and solder it directly to a 1/4 jack. sounded so crazy and cool I just left it like that, transfered it into a new DIY case and called it a day. It has alot of gain, turned all the way up it gets so distorted, all gurgly and choked. it sounds like it is going to give up the ghost. love it. once in a blue moon, in the studio, this gets indie rock guitar guys very excited. and the playback EQ curve gives it so much high end boost, with the tone knob all the way up it is so jangly it is stupid. think jesus and mary chain's psychocandy taken a bit further.

mike p
 
> funny, PRR.

It was on the original plan. I doubt Murphy is going to break into datape's house and alter component values without notice, but I figured I better keep their notice.

I knew a guy killed by a Xerox machine. I wasn't there, but the story seems to involve a 3-pin plug in a 2-pin outlet, not the kilo-volts on the drum.

I have nerve damage from a tube-shock 30 years ago. Little finger is numb. I'm still very glad it was from fingertip to wrist: if my heart had gone equally numb, I'd be in mighty poor shape (probably dead, with the CPR of that day). It was getting better, slooooowwwwly, but an illness a couple years ago brought it back.

Generally, tube-amp shocks are no more dangerous than sticking your hand in a half-horsepower saw, except you don't see the spinning blade until it bites. Most of the time, you get a nick; maybe you get a bum finger; but sometimes you get pulled face-first into the saw. And as NYD says, sometimes the saw never touches you, but throws you to the floor head-first. I had one of those: woke up slumped against the wall, sore from the back of my head down to my butt.

There was a Jacobs Ladder through the heart.... still not sure what happened there.

Really worth warning your friends.
 
My dad got fried a few times but didn't die.

Once he got mains power from one hand to the other... I'm not sure if it was 240 or just single-phase 120, but his fingers cooked like sausages and actually split. Someone had to hit him with a board because your involuntary reaction is to clench your hands.

Poor dad with a hot in one hand and a ground in the other :shock:

2,000 watts. Ouch.

Everything healed OK...
 
Like pilots, Darwin weeds out careless broadcast engineers pretty fast.

But the same work habits you develop at 10kv @ 2 amp get used at lowly tube amp voltages.

Anyway datapes, when you wake up, make a post and let us know you are alive. :thumb:
 
[quote author="PRR"] had one of those: woke up slumped against the wall, sore from the back of my head down to my butt.

There was a Jacobs Ladder through the heart.... still not sure what happened there.

Really worth warning your friends.[/quote]

Wow, that's crazy!!!

But what exactly is meant by the jacobs ladder comment, and pardon my noob-ness
 
> "pu" means "pickup" which in their case means phono pickup.

Yeah, but it means the OLD electric Victrola pickup, not a modern pickup.

The old ones were pretty much telephone earpieces, with a needle stuck to the diaphragm, mounted in an acoustic-style tone arm. With a hot fast 78, you got over 0.1V of semi-equalized signal, a far cry from the 0.005V of modern needles which also need electric EQ.

The output of an old pickup is close to the weak-station output of a radio detector. You might get 6V on a strong local station, but you might have distant stations 30dB weaker (even after AVC), so the audio amp was scaled for around 0.2V sensitivity. Work backward: classic power pentode needs 8V signal, hi-Mu triode has gain like 40, 8/40= 0.2V. (*)

A hard-strummed power chord on a hot gitar will beat 0.2V, but your fingers get tired. We like guitar-amp sensitivity in the 0.05V to 0.01V range. The "PU" input hardly cuts it. We need another gain of 4 to 20.

What we got? Right before the hi-Mu triode we find the IF stage. I had NO idea what a "VP41" was, except that it works as an IF amp; it'll work as an AF amp if we replace the tuned circuit and detector with a resistor. Most small pentodes can be cranked to gain of 100, but they get fussy, and we don't need that much. When trode-strapped (see how I moved the screen grid to the plate) they give theoretical gain of 10 to 40: I dunno which we'll get, but it hardly matters. Copying the 47K resistor from the audio stage (and stealing some of its clean DC power) will give actual gain of 10 to 20, which is in the ballpark of what we need.

The VP41 turns out to be (no surprise) a variable-gain tube. For large input signals, it would distort. That's not a defect in a funky guitar amp. But for our small guitar signals, the distortion will be very small. Mazda says that, as an IF amplifier, you can poke 5V at it! Audio linearity is different than IF linearity, but I bet it can take 0.1V strums with mild sweetening, and 1V bangs without getting offensive. (When you want offensive, crank the output past its 5 watt ability: it'll go nasty, until the old speaker shatters.)

Stick with the tubes that are in it: there is a good chance they are OK. If not, and you can't find replacements, you have a problem: these tubes use a 4V heater, and most post-war tubes use 6V heat. To use good old 6V6 and similar favorites, you'd have to add a new transformer just to power the 6V heaters. Not a big deal, but annoying. The PEN45 should be an excellent gitar-amp bottle, really too good for a radio. (This looks like a very deluxe radio.)

Since you say it plays, with the expected low gain, we know V3 and V4 "work". We won't know if V4 works to its full 5 watt level until we jam a bigger signal into it: but hell, 2 Watts is still a lot of racket in a good speaker.

(*) OK, HL41 only has mu of 30, typical working gain of 20, but the PEN45 can be pushed to clipping with just 6 or 7 volts. 6/20= 0.3V, near enough to the wild-guess. LH41 may have stuningly low distortion under these conditions, so it is good the input tube is a little bent.

If gain is almost-enough, change the plate resistor on V2 from 47K to 100K or 220K.

The tone control is treble-cut only. It controls the treble-rise of a dynamic speaker on a pentode, and it cuts the hiss off of AM, SW, and 78s. For guitar we want a little treble-rise. If it has enough gain, but isn't bright enough, change that new 25uFd cap under V2 to a 1uFd. Treble gain stays the same, bass-gain drops a bit, the basic guitar-amp sound.

BTW, V1 is a Triode-Heptode. You'll be the only dude on the block with a Heptode in his amp. (Don't tell them it isn't doing anything for the guitar.)
 
lol you guys dont have much confidence in me...

cheers for the circuit PRR!!!

i got a bit carried away its now 5.30am and the radio is in pieces on the desk and i'm thinking wtf am i doing. i've pulled out all the bits that arnt in the revisied diagram. these things wernt designed to be pulled apart easily were they? waxy capacitors....mmm...um.. i think i better get some sleep...
 

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