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I plugged mine in last night

Nothing. Except a large hum coming out the other ends (stereo unit)
Time to start working through and figuring out the disconnect...

-ChuckD
 
Does anyone have a source for the 500k Linear pots?

Newark have the Vactrols, and the 100k log and 5k reverse are available on back-order (lead time 61 days). But I can't find a suitable 500K linear pot.

Any leads?

Cheers,

Kris
 
Thanks Fred...

Wow, they are pricey, but Clarostat makes good pots. Damn I just received digikey order today...why didn't I look for pots there?

Fred, if you have a chance would it be possible to get a little walkthrough of the sidechain circuit. Here's my understanding:

The gain reduction element is effectively a variable resistor, whose resistance is inversely proportional to the current driven into the LED. This resistance, then acts to pad down the input to the output stage.

The threshold control appears to be a level adjustment on the sidechain input buffer amp. After this, the signal is paralled and one side inverted then the two signals are rectified by the small signal diodes. Out of curiosity, why not use an absolute value, or precision rectifier type circuit here? Maybe the forward diode drop isn't significant given the response time of the compressor/Vactrol...or maybe you're using the forward drop to set the threshold of compression (thats what I'm currently thinking, and would explain how you can have a threshold control without a comparator to see if the level is over or under threshold).

From the rectifier, the release time control appears to be a kind of variable pad, reducing the level of the rectified signal. I don't really see how this affects the release time though....

Attack time seems to be a variable low pass filter breakpoint....this makes sense to me. Taking the sharp edges off the rectified signal will make the attack slower.

The ratio control looks like an variable current limiting resistance on the output of the sidechain, which makes sense to me as it will change how hard the LEDs are driven.

I notice too that the circuit is set up as a feedforward compressor....I wonder how hard it would be to tweak to be feedback....I guess I'd want to pad down the threshold an amount equal to the amout of make-up gain I'm applying in the output stage (may need a two deck switch).

Cheers,

Kris
 
Hi Kris,

Fred, if you have a chance would it be possible to get a little walkthrough of the sidechain circuit.

Yeah I can do that.


The gain reduction element is effectively a variable resistor, whose resistance is inversely proportional to the current driven into the LED. This resistance, then acts to pad down the input to the output stage.

Yes, the LDR acts as a variable shunt element as in a L-pad, working against the series resistance created by R43 and R44.

The threshold control appears to be a level adjustment on the sidechain input buffer amp. After this, the signal is paralled and one side inverted then the two signals are rectified by the small signal diodes. Out of curiosity, why not use an absolute value, or precision rectifier type circuit here? Maybe the forward diode drop isn't significant given the response time of the compressor/Vactrol...or maybe you're using the forward drop to set the threshold of compression (thats what I'm currently thinking, and would explain how you can have a threshold control without a comparator to see if the level is over or under threshold).

Yes, the threshold control is a simple level control that adjusts the signal level feeding the side chain. U5A is configured for some gain (appox +24 dB) to allow the compressor to function at low signal levels. U5B is a unity gain inverter. The outputs of U5A and U5B are rectified through D9 and D10.

The reason I used this scheme to create a full-wave rectifier instead of the more commonly encountered precision full-wave rectifier is simple; I wanted to use D9 and D10 to prevent C24 from discharging into the very low source impedance of U5A/B. While a precision rectifier could be built with one opamp, its output connection would cause C24 to discharge very rapidly preventing a long release time setting. Making C24 larger to try to improve the release time would be problematic. The only drawback to my approach is that signal levels lower than one diode drop (about 0.6v) will not trigger the compessor. Adding gain to U5A took care of that problem.

The main thing to think about from this point on in the side-chain is that everything after D9/D10 is DC.

So what happens is that the output of D9/D10 is a series of positive going AC waveforms. C24 charges to the peak value of the outputs of D9/D10 and discharges through the release time pot and R26 to ground. The input impedance of U6A is very large compared to the pot/R26 path to ground, so it doesn't play much of a role in the release time characteristics. R26 determines the quickest release time. The 500k pot determines the longest release time.

U6A buffers the release time R/C network from the Attack time R/C network and provides enough drive current to charge the attack time cap quickly. It also help reduce interaction between the attack and release time controls.

C25 and the output charactistics of U6A determine the fastest attack time (if we ignore the LED/LDR time constants) when the 500k attack time control is not creating a resistance in series with C25 (fully CCW). In this case, C25 will not add to the release time characteristics because it discharges rapidly into the output of U6A. As we increase the attack time by moving the pot CW, C25 does take longer to discharge, so it is important to use a fairly small value C here. R27 is there to provide a ground ref to the input U6B and needs to be large so as not to attenuate the drive to C25.

U6B is a unity gain buffer that provides a good high current drive to the LED/LDR cell(s). The input of U6B is also a good point to passively sum drive signals for a multi-channel compressor.

The ratio control looks like an variable current limiting resistance on the output of the sidechain, which makes sense to me as it will change how hard the LEDs are driven.

I notice too that the circuit is set up as a feedforward compressor....I wonder how hard it would be to tweak to be feedback....I guess I'd want to pad down the threshold an amount equal to the amout of make-up gain I'm applying in the output stage (may need a two deck switch).

Yeah, that's how the ratio works. Another way to do that is to place a variable R in series with the LDR (to ground), and for a long time I did it that way, but it makes is difficult to design a GR metering circuit that tracks the amount of gain reduction as you vary the ratio. If one were to check the tracking on other opto compressor design (as a function of ratio control setting), you'd find that almost none of them (none of them?) track properly. It does on my design, if you use my metering circuit (once you get it calibrated), at least well enough to be useful.

With regard to feedback/feedforward-- my desire was to design a reasonably simple side-chain. There is a bit of feedback and a bit of feedforward on this design, at least with regard to how the side-chain functions. The point at which the signal to the side chain is picked off determines this. If you were to reduce R43 to zero, you'd have an all feed-forward design (and you'd have to increase the value of R44 by 4.99k). If you were to reduce R44 to zero, you'd have a feedback design. I chose values for the R43/44 ratio by trail and error. You might have fun playing with these values to see what effect it has on the design.

It is possible to use this design as a gate instead of an compressor. The LDR would be connected in series with the signal (like R43/44 are now) and you'd need a resistor to ground where the LDR is now. You would want the side-chain pick off point to be prior to the LDR, therefore it would be a feed-forward design. Max attenuation would be determined by the ratio of off resistance to the shunt R resistance (and may vary as a function frequency, so be aware). Min attenuation (gate on) is determinded by the ratio of the LDR on resistance and the shunt R.

Anyway, that's kind of the idea. I hope my explaination makes sense and that it addresses your questions.

I wish a great new year for all of you.
 
Wow Fred, thanks for that post (and yes, it addressed all my questions very well)...it's going to take me a couple of reads, but I'm starting to get a handle on it.

Cheers, and happy new year to you too!

Kris
 
wow
indeed
:thumb:

Fred,
can I take that and work it into the ffosc page at the DIY Factory ??

http://www.diyfactory.com/projects/forsselllimiter/ffosc.htm

pls.pls
beg.beg

shameless, I know :cool:
 
[quote author="FredForssell"] ... Of course you can...but thanks for asking.[/quote]

:thumb:
just found my job for today ... then a walk down the beach ... I'm still on holidays ... :cool:

thanks Fred
 
just found my job for today ... then a walk down the beach ... I'm still on holidays ...

That being the case, I hereby retact permission for you to use this material until AFTER you have taken that walk down the beach and finish your holiday. Priorities Kev, priorities!

BTW Kev, it looks like April/May for my next visit there. Booking it next week.

Cheers mate.
 
Here's a head's up on the parts list....C4 is not listed for the parts list, but is required for the discrete output servo amp. It's a .68uFd/16V.

Oh, and there's a misquote on the DIY factory website. I'm quoted as having said

Q : (Kris) - The reason I used this scheme to create a full-wave rectifier instead of the more commonly encountered precision full-wave rectifier is simple; I wanted to use D9 and D10 to prevent C24 from discharging into the very low source impedance of U5A/B. While a precision rectifier could be built with one opamp, its output connection would cause C24 to discharge very rapidly preventing a long release time setting. Making C24 larger to try to improve the release time would be problematic. The only drawback to my approach is that signal levels lower than one diode drop (about 0.6v) will not trigger the compessor. Adding gain to U5A took care of that problem.

Which makes me sound far smarter than I really am....these are Fred's words.

Cheers,

Kris
 
[quote author="DrFrankencopter"] ... Here's a head's up on the parts list....
... Oh, and there's a misquote on the DIY factory website. I'm quoted as having said ....
Which makes me sound far smarter than I really am....these are Fred's words.[/quote]

errr :oops:
oops

take another look
ToM can fix the parts and send me an update but I have a short comment below the parts list download


[quote author="FredForssell"]BTW Kev, it looks like April/May for my next visit there. Booking it next week.
Cheers mate.[/quote]
yep
perhaps we can connect then ... :thumb:
 
just tested Fred's gate idea and it worked very nicely first time (with a 10K to ground) which is excellent news for me as I'm rather short on gates at the mo. I haven't run a rigorous frequency/response test on it though but it seems to be absolutely fine with the test CD I had to hand.
Also, if you are doing a single (or more than stereo) unit, you can use the unused DPDT stereo link pad (snip out the middle pins of the switch) to switch between gate and compressor functions.
Come to think of it, I've also 'harvested' the unused (repeat) power supply sections for my 9Ks - handy boards indeed for 7 dollars!

Many thanks again Fred for this brilliant project, Tommy and Butta and everyone who helped too :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
I am having trouble getting my power supply to work.
When I hook up the +/- of the transformer I only get 6 VAC on each. And the transformer gets HOT really fast.

When I unhook the board and just test the transformer I get 27 VAC on each side to the center.

I don't see any shorts. Could I have a bad diode? what would cause this to happen?


Thanks

-ChuckD
 
[quote author="DrFrankencopter"]The tommytones board expects DC, not AC. You need to build a PS board to take your 27VAV and get DC to feed the regulators with.

Kris[/quote]

But rectified out from the transformer is okay to put onto the boards, the places marked for smoothing caps is plenty big, this is what i have done on mine.
 
Johnathan

I don't understand what you mean. Can you draw a rough schematic to show what you mean???

SO you just put two rectifiers inbetween Transformer and the +/-/0 and how did you wire them?

Thanks


-Chuck
 

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