Manley Vari-M Limiter/Comp

Hey Matt,

I am a fulltime engineer with probably half my time devoted to mastering and a couple of db on the L2 gets me there almost always. I always get the rock and dance stuff I do up to commercial level, otherwise it's a recall as you say. I've got a huge session full of the loudest and proudest in the various genres I work in.

Acoustic music which suffers the most from limiting often does not need to be as hot. Hardcore techno can often be abused highly with all sorts of horrible tools without giving out.

The thing is that I don't rely on the limiter to get me level. If I know that level will be an issue I'm using eq, compression, harmonic enhancement, clipping, filtering and all sorts of other things in harmony to get where I need to be. The combination varies from track to track even on the same album. I try to never default to one tool - clipping can be great or awful, so can the L2. I know I'm preaching to the converted here so I won't go on.

cheers,
Ruairi

Analog limiters suitable for mastering work are very rare. Even the new Pendulum limiter is not considered by many good enough for mastering.

The trick is to reduce the difference between the RMS and peak in small steps at different stages (mixdown, tape, comp) so you will not need to apply a lot of L2 and destroy the material. If L2 is set to reduce not more than 1-2dB at the peaks it will sound clean and nice.

chrissugar

how about we all get together and figure out how to make the PRR varimu do more GR? I use it on the outputs of my console religiously, it's a magic box for sure. I would just like to do more GR with it though.

Maybe another thread is in order?

[quote author="ruairioflaherty"]Hey Matt,

I am a fulltime engineer with probably half my time devoted to mastering and a couple of db on the L2 gets me there almost always. I always get the rock and dance stuff I do up to commercial level, otherwise it's a recall as you say. I've got a huge session full of the loudest and proudest in the various genres I work in.

Acoustic music which suffers the most from limiting often does not need to be as hot. Hardcore techno can often be abused highly with all sorts of horrible tools without giving out.

The thing is that I don't rely on the limiter to get me level. If I know that level will be an issue I'm using eq, compression, harmonic enhancement, clipping, filtering and all sorts of other things in harmony to get where I need to be. The combination varies from track to track even on the same album. I try to never default to one tool - clipping can be great or awful, so can the L2. I know I'm preaching to the converted here so I won't go on.

cheers,
Ruairi[/quote]


Makes sense, I can dig it!
:thumb:
M@

Most of the simpler tube compressors just aren't fast enough to use as peak limiters. But it is possible to make a relatively simple tube circuit that can do the job, with sub-millisecond attack. I did it with only three tubes, although the catch was that I had to use four audio transformers. (The thread is here, although the pictures have been lost since the Twin-X server crash).

I'm not going to post/distribute the schematic of this particular circuit, but I just wanted to make the point that there's a whole world of possibilities--besides 436 copies, Sta-Levels or Fairchild-esque monsters--which is yours to explore if you're not dead-set on building a direct clone of an existing product.

That is why I think the PRR varimu would be an excellent choice for most people as a stock unit as well as one to base more modifications on. It's pretty fast, to the point where I can't hear the unit reduce the gain at it's fastest attack but you know it's working if you watch your VUs.

There is nothing like a Fairchild-esque monster.....ha ha ha ha. The rest are overshooters by comparison.

analag

uh huh.. but then again who can afford the time and effort that you have put into your monster?!

Gyraf is a little family of a Fairchild-esque monster...

The L2 only works for me when we're having labelpeople in "judging" on the production before it's finished.
8-12 dB of L2 keeps them happy for a while, try it, some even start to dance in the controlroom :thumb:

having been in mastering studios quite a bit, I can say this there is no end all be all. If there was, then every mastering house would be using it. There are places here in LA that master exclusively with all analog gear and some that mix it up analog and digital. Capitol for example has custom built solid state mastering/transfer consoles out of neve parts. Other places like the mastering lab use custom designed and built tube consoles and tube outboard gear to do their mastering. Oasis mastering uses a mix of digital comps and eq's(weise) and analog comps and eq's.
Old thread come new again? cool.
Oh and FWIW I once had Doug Sax tell me that the finalizer by TC was one of the best mastering boxes built to date as it did exactly as advertised, Made it loud. :green:

[quote author="analag"]The rest are overshooters by comparison.
[/quote]

uh oh I think that was a dare Rowan.. :green: :green:

[quote author="Svart"]uh oh I think that was a dare Rowan.. :green: :green:[/quote]

We can go there....zero shooting. Starting with the program dependent setting. The specs are coming....didn't think I was doing pics only, did you?

analag

That wasn't a dare. But it doesn't look too bad for only three tubes, don't ya think?

Definitely post some waveforms and sound clips from the 30-tube monster when you get around to it, though.

[quote author="NewYorkDave"]Definitely post some waveforms and sound clips from the 30-tube monster when you get around to it, though.[/quote]

I was thinking of reviving your " Compressor Development" thread this week with the RMAA 5.5 stuff.

The waveform is extremely well behaved.
I think I'll upload a song with and without compression with the latter totally squashed yet remaining musical. (So many variations to choose from)

Svart, with this and the 660 type I have, you can hear the compression quite clearly....all dynamics goes away, gone, disappear.

analag