Remote cut-off point?

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A pile of 26A6 landed in the old tube box last week.
Another remote cutoff. Do not know if they would make a good compressor.

26A6 datasheet

More from the tube book:

9003
6660
6137
5972
5907
1853
956
78
58
39/44
35/51
26CG6
14A7/12B7
12SK7
12K7-GT
12BD6
12AC6
6386
6U7-G
6SS7
6SK7
6ES8
6F7
6E7
6D6
6CR6
6CG6
6BJ6
6BA6
6AB7/1853
3BA6
1P5-G

For everyone of those, and the ones I missed, there are three more semi-remotes lurking.
 
[quote author="SUPERMAGOO"]cj dont forget ef184??
ef184 its remote cut off ...i fink....or not?[/quote]

Nice suggestion :thumb: I must have a few of these I thought.

If they're really suited I don't know, but indeed,
EF183 is a 'pentode with variable mutual conductance'
and
EF184 is a 'sharp cut-off pentode'.

Bye,

Peter
 
6ba6b.jpg

6BA6 Triode 200v 2v/step starting at -4v

6386b.jpg

6386 200v 2v/step starting at -4v

They are close on paper. Sound mighty close, too
 
im trying to answer but the avatar of Lemmy keeps me spitting my Guinness.

I should think the 4BA6 is a similar animal. Just not in such great quantity.
I'll be happy to sweep one vs 6386 if anyone sends me one. or I find one here.

5749's are actually not 6Ba6's. They are a Mil version and their Rp is lower than the 6BA6's 1.5mohm
I didn't like them. Pulling them out and stuffing in 6BA6's woke this beast right up.
 
> ef184 its remote cut off ...i fink....or not

Not. EF184 datasheet. Not only does it say Sharp Cutoff, this is the first tube I ever noticed that says "...this tube should not be used in circuits with automatic volume control. For such applications a tube with variable mutual conductance is recommended." If you look at the plate curves, the plate current goes down MUCH faster than the transconductance.

It might make an interesting triode. Mu would be 60 and the plate current could be as high as 15mA or 20mA, a LOT more than the usual high-Mu triodes like 12AT7. Triode plate resistance seems to be around 3K.

> A pile of 26A6 ... Do not know if they would make a good compressor.

Interesting sheet. Has to be one of the good-old IF tubes, but with 26V heater and with 26V plate performance specs.

As with any audio limiter, the killer problem is that we have to reduce current on the loudest signals. So at some point, the tube starves and distortion soars. So we want the highest possible idle current. Running these tubes at 26V will "work" but output will have to be very low, S/N not very good. Since the 25A6 has a fairly high dissipation rating, you could just cook it at 200V-250V and 5mA-10mA and get pretty good output and gain reduction.
 
> Wow on the plate voltage

No, no. It is a 250V tube, with data for 26V operation. All tubes work at low plate voltages. Mostly they work poorly, and you can see that the 26V performance is far below the 100V-250V performance. But in off-line application (I think this was for a ship-radio, which had to work on battery so you could send SOS when the engine failed) sometimes it is OK to work around poor performance, maybe adding a tube to the system to make up for poor gain per tube.

> which is beter opcion for vari mu compresors ??

The funny thing is: they all seem to be very similar. They ARE all variations on type 35/51. The 6386 working at high plate voltage needs a LOT of grid control voltage, which leads to slightly lower THD and perhaps the best S/N of the bunch, 122dB. Also the 6386 was once cheap enough to use in multiples, which gives 128dB S/N and (along with a very high-strung transformer) allowed Narma to get line-level output without a post-amp. The "hot" types like 6ES8 need small grid control voltage which reduces the sidechain problem, but must be run at lower signal voltage. Even with their high Gm the maximum input S/N is about 114dB. The output S/N is reduced by the maximum GR designed into the limiter: for 30dB max GR we get 98dB (quad 6386) to 84dB (one 6ES8) output S/N. Note however that R-FET limiters give "only" 70dB-80dB output S/N, and optos generally similar, yet both are popular.
 
And I do not know if it is a mis-print, but the 6386 Rp value is listed at 4250, which is lower than a lot of those remotes.

I do knot know what this lower Rp would do to the circuit...
 
My GE "Essential Characteristics" tube manual confirms that Rp of 4250 CJ.
Pretty low. But when you wire a pentode as a triode, the Rp drops, so I guess we dont have a published number on a 6BA6 triode to compare.

check this ham radio thread: http://mailman.listserve.com/archives/collins/2001-01/msg00183.html
The vintage Collins collectors discovered the dif between a 5749 and a 6BA6.
 
> the 6386 Rp value is listed at 4250

Sure, at the test condition. 6386 is fairly low-Mu. For a given cathode size and grid technology, maximum Gm is fixed, Rp is Mu/Gm. Or Gm = Mu/Rp. 17/4250 is 4,000 uMhos, which is what the book sez.

FWIW, the Fairchild idles at much higher voltage and I think somewhat lower current than the 6386 book spec. Rp is probably like 8K rising to 50K, Mu 10 going down to 4, Gm 2,800 falling to ~300.

> which is lower than a lot of those remotes.

If comparing to the Pentodes: hell yeah! Pentode plate resistance is meaningless in audio. Sure Larrchild heard a difference between 5749 and 6BA6, but it wasn't the Rp. That's swamped by other circuit impedances. Probably grid-pitch or bracing or other "minor" change caused the audible difference. Pentode Rp is meaningless, but it has a lot to do with the screen grid pitch and spacing, which has other effects on the sound.

> I do knot know what this lower Rp would do to the circuit...

Not sure which circuit we have.

In Pentode operation, we can neglect Rp per se. In Triode operation, it is a Big Problem. Since Mu really does not change much (only about 2:1 in the 6386), we really have variable-Gm limiters. But Rp changes too! And the gain of a triode is Gm*(Rp||Rl). If Rl could be made infinite, and if Mu were constant (for most tubes it is nearly constant, even 6386 can't be varied more than about 2:1 or 3:1), then as Gm falls Rp rises and Gm*Rp is a constant equal to Mu! Even on 6386 we could only get 6dB or 10dB GR.

That's where a Pentode is an advantage. Using tubes, resistors, and iron coils, Rl is never as high as Rp. Now gain is Gm*Rl. Gm varies, Rl is fixed, gain changes.

In most triode limiters, the idle Rp is less than Rl, gain is Mu, and does not change a lot when you start to starve the tube. Finally you starve it enough for Rp to get higher than Rl, and now gain falls as fast as Gm.

I went the other way on my 12AU7 limiter. Using high Rl is good for gain, reduced tube-count, but we have chips and gain is cheap. I loaded the Rp=>6K 12AU7 with 1K. Since the gain equation is nearly Gm*Rl, as soon as current and Gm fall, gain falls. Gain is low (nearly unity) but we can fix that for a buck: 5532 has gobs of gain with noise as low or lower than 12AU7 so we can afford unity gain or even a loss through the tube. And 1K-2K impedances work with cheap transformers, unlike the ultra-high impedances used in most tube-era limiters that used transformer coupling out of the vary-gain stage.
 
I can tell you this: I just took a boxed Antique Electroncs Jan-5749 and a boxed Antique 6BA6 and a-b'd them on the curve tracer and they matched quite well. 1 year ago the batch of 5749's i got on ebay didnt match well to 6BA6's

I'lll stuff some more back in and retest. I remember the difference now. the 6BA6 had more gain reduction in the identical circuit. And the 5749's had less mu on the tracer. So the sound difference was control voltage/gain related.
Not spectral coloration.. 6BA6 just seemed more sensitive to bias, gain-wise.
For an identical amount of GR they sounded identical.
 

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