Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« on: June 16, 2006, 04:04:45 AM »
Hey there,
Now that summer is here, I am starting my summer project. I have decided to build a copy of the Neve 2254 Compressor. I already have all the transformers in my possession, so I need to get/build the 4 BA*** cards. I have found schematics for the BA191, 283 (obviously), and the BA185, but I cannot find the schematic for the BA192. I have searched google as well as this forum but haven't found anything yet. Does anyone have a link/scan/etc???

As soon as I start on designed boards, collecting parts, and assembling the damn thing I will start a big thread with pics and stuff.

Oh yeah, does anyone know the difference between a BA183 and 283 off the top of their head??

Thanks,
Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------


echorec

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2006, 07:23:57 PM »
I might have it in my 2254 manual. I will check. The 283 is smaller than the 183, as you probably know. I am sure there are other differences too but I have used both models in my Neve equipment and I can´t hear any difference in the way they sound.

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2006, 08:52:08 PM »
http://www.lazpro.com
I reserve the right to not sell to idiots

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2006, 10:14:13 PM »
Woohoo!!

Thanks for the schematic Peter! As soon as I get home from the studio, I'm gonna save it on my drive.

Does anyone know the value of the attenuators (or pots) used in the compressor (limit amount, comp thresh, etc.) I'm going to be using ELMA 24 pos stepped switches as stepped pots, but I need to know the overall value that they need to be.


Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------

Kit

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2006, 04:15:00 AM »
Interesting.

Hey Ian, how is the GR accomplished?
It´s a diode bridge. right?

Good luck with your summer project. :thumb:
"Relaxing on the axis of the wheel of life."

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2006, 02:11:23 PM »
I believe the GR is accomplished by varying the bias through a diode bridge which acts as an attenuator. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how it works.

Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------

clintrubber

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2006, 08:52:15 AM »
Quote from: "Ian MacGregor"
I believe the GR is accomplished by varying the bias through a diode bridge which acts as an attenuator. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how it works.

Ian


If you can read German, there's some info here:
http://www.gyraf.dk/schematics/Siemens_U273_Limiter.pdf

It's just the first link that came to mind, there's a lot more out there  about this topic.

Just curious w.r.t. 2254 vs 33609. I saw nice & complete circuit-info in the 33609-manuals, so was wondering why you're going for the 2254. That might be obvious to those in the know about these circuits, but I haven't ever done anything with diode-bridge attenuators myself.

http://www.ams-neve.com/html/downloads/outboard/33609J.pdf

Regards,

  Peter

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2006, 08:20:34 PM »
Quote from: "clintrubber"

Just curious w.r.t. 2254 vs 33609. I saw nice & complete circuit-info in the 33609-manuals, so was wondering why you're going for the 2254.


I know, I saw the whole collection of 33609 stuff, but I guess I am a glutton for punishment, I really wanna go all out and make the fully discrete, class-A (buzzwords, I know)  comp. My game plan is to design very accurate PCB versions of the four smaller BA boards, a front panel PCB for Elma 24pos switches, as well as a motherboard PCB that the smaller boards plug into. I know it is a large project to undertake, but I'm going to go for it.
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------

clintrubber

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2006, 04:05:33 AM »
Quote from: "Ian MacGregor"
Quote from: "clintrubber"

Just curious w.r.t. 2254 vs 33609. I saw nice & complete circuit-info in the 33609-manuals, so was wondering why you're going for the 2254.


I know, I saw the whole collection of 33609 stuff, but I guess I am a glutton for punishment, I really wanna go all out and make the fully discrete, class-A (buzzwords, I know)  comp.
I know it is a large project to undertake, but I'm going to go for it.

Sounds fine !

I don't have the 33609-plans around here & just for my understanding, how many non-A stages are there in that version ? IIRIC the output-amp, but I don't recall other stages.
But I might have been distracted by the 'balanced CFP' after the diode-bridge - for some reason I'm always pleased to see that topology.

Quote
but I guess I am a glutton for punishment,

 :wink:

Enjoy !

  Peter

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2006, 11:49:29 AM »
Good Luck, Ian.  If you need some more work to fund the project, let me know.   :wink:


soundguy

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2006, 12:46:04 PM »
Quote from: "Ian MacGregor"
My game plan is to design very accurate PCB versions of the four smaller BA boards, a front panel PCB for Elma 24pos switches, as well as a motherboard PCB that the smaller boards plug into.


Is there any reason why you are sticking with that form factor?

If you were designing a completely new product with four amplifiers, would you put each amp on its own board and then have a motherboard for it to plug into?

In a console, that makes a lot of sense, I could never see the return on the effort for doing that with rack gear.

dave

chips are good with dip...

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2006, 02:18:23 PM »
hmmm... Been thinking about that Dave. For one, it breaks up the work a little bit. I can work on the smaller boards individually. I think part of me just wants to do it like Neve did (and I know that Neve didn't have motherboards, it was hand wired but...??). I don't know, I guess I really don't have any great reasons. As I am still in the dreaming/planning stage, my layout might change.

How would you rather approach it? One large board, right? Would you keep the original layouts (of the BA cards) intact, just all on the same PCB?

Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------

soundguy

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2006, 03:18:40 PM »
If you are building it to use it, I would just completely redesign the thing.  I would put it on one big board and not worry about it.  All the trimmers on the back could go on the board and there are lots of creative mods to do or not do, whatever.  Just seems like a really odd form factor to keep which is why I asked.  If it was that 990 opamp footprint, thats one thing but keeping neve's plugin format for one off's seems like more work than its worth.

dave

chips are good with dip...

STR

2254
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2006, 05:13:15 PM »
Hello I'm also making a clone of the 2254.
On my site there are some PCB Layout of the BA192, BA191, BA185 and BA283.

www.str-electronics.com

under : projects->studio->2254

Maybe it is usefull ?
 :grin:

Gr Marc

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2006, 08:23:05 PM »
Hi Marc,
I have found your site very useful! I have been checking out the layouts that you have on there. Do you have gerber files for any of those layouts?

Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------

STR

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2006, 12:49:33 PM »
Yep I have got the gerben files. I will put them soon on my webstite

STR

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2006, 03:37:26 PM »
You can find the gerbenfiles here:

www.xs4all.nl/~theostr/str-electronics/DIY/Gerbenfiles/

Have fun with building the 2254E :-)

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2006, 07:48:41 PM »
Wow Marc! Thanks a ton. I haven't checked out the Gerbers yet, but I'm going to. Any idea on the Gerber type (274, 274X, etc)?

Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------

STR

Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2006, 02:23:48 AM »
The are Gerben 274-X files.

Ian MacGregor

    Echo Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Posts: 280
Searching for Neve BA192 Schematic (for Neve 2254)
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2006, 03:00:02 AM »
Awesome! I opened them up and they look fantastic! Nice work.

Now for me to get some stuff done...

Ian
www.blackwatchsound.com
www.standard-audio.com
 ------------------------------


 

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