Gyraf DIY G9 vs. Manley VoxBox

Hi,

I want to give a little feedback and say THANX A LOT to Jakob!
Two Weeks ago I ordered all the parts for my first G9.

- PCBs from Audio-Kitchen
- Lundahl Input and Output-Trannys
- Mundorf M-Caps
- Selected and balanced Electro-Harmonix-tubes
- Panasonic FC Elecrolityc-Caps

I tried to buy the best stuff I know and ... of cause ... that fits the board.
There is not a millimeter space with the M-Caps on the PCB ;o)
but I think it´s worts it.

Yesterday a friend and I made a microphone-test.
Seven microphones and two preamps.

The amps:

- Manley Vox Box (preamp section only!)
- Gyraf Audio DIY G9 (one channel only!)

The mics:

- Brauner - Phantom C
- Groove Tubes - ?
- Rode - K2
- SE Electronics - Z 5600 A
- Sontronics - Helios
- Studio Projects - T3
- Nevaton - MC 416

We made the test in his professional studio.
The listening room acoustic is very good, the monitors are ADAM P22A
and the AD/DA Converter was a RME Fireface 800.
I know there is better equipment around, but I think it´s
good enough to tell the difference between different mics and mic-pres ;o)

To make it short ... the Gyraf DIY G9 is on one eyelevel with the VoxBox.
But it sounds different. If you compare the two units against each other
the VoxBox sounds more scooped and the G9 has a louder midrange.
We tried every microphone with every preamp.
We did a Born to be wild cover with a male-rock-voice-singer.

Believe it or not, it´s in the combination!
If I read some posts like: "What is the best mic under 500 bucks" I start to smile now.
If someone asks me something like that in the future I will answer "It depends on your preamp son!" ;o)

One example. My friend uses the VoxBox with the Nevaton a lot.
We triend the Groove Tubes (sorry, I forgot the model! Something with "1A" ... ? ...)
and it was better for that voice. Perfect without EQ!
Then we did the G9-combinations. I always liked the VoxBox-combos
a little bit more until we hooked up the Nevaton MC416.
The Nevaton got a scooped sound and the VoxBox, too.
Sounds a little bit like not very much mids.
The G9 got a stronger midrange and that sounded perfect with the Nevaton on that singer.

At the end we had two winning combinations we both liked:
VoxBox + Groove Tubes
G9 + Nevaton MC416

Some people may ask: "And what´s about the Brauner?"

So I thought it might be a good idea to write a short comment for every mic.
But please note, it´s a matter of taste in a certain range and we got only one singer for the test.

NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE !!!

Brauner - Phantom C

Very nice microphone. Open and detailed sound, not cold but ...
too much treble for a shouting rock-voice and not so much balls, sounds a little bit thin for my taste.
Maybe a very good mic for smoother music or poeple with a very full voice.

Rode - K2

Not bad but sounds metallic in the midrange with the G9 and the Voxbox.
Nothing for my taste. Sounds not smooth and always harsh and hard.

Sontronics - Helios

Cool at first sight, but too coloured in the midrange for my taste.
It´s a microphone with a "special-sound" that you like or ... not hate but let´s say don´t like ;o)

SE Electronics - Z 5600 A

The, in my opinion, absolut looser. The last mic under the sun. China-trebles that pierce your brains out.
Perhaps good for some Instruments or bad preamps that suck your trebles up. Very loud!

Studio Projects - T3

Sounds great with the VoxBox and nearly good with the G9.
The T3 is a mic with a loud midrange and that fits the VoxBox with it´s scooped sound.
With the G9 it´s getting too much for my taste.

I hope that helps someone ... but one thing´s left to say ...

The G9 is really a great preamp. The only "problem" with a lot of todays microphones is it´s pronounced midrange.
If you want a well balanced sound, go for a mic with not too much mids ...
and remember ... it´s only my taste ! :wink:

By the way ... does anyone have some ideas how to get the mids down in the G9 ?
I don´t want to use an EQ if I can do it in the circuit.

Rode - K2

Not bad but sounds metallic in the midrange with the G9 and the Voxbox.
Nothing for my taste. Sounds not smooth and always harsh and hard.

Click to expand...

I have one but replaced the China tube with a NOS Telefunken. Sounds great now

Nice review BTW :thumb:

Thanks for the valuable info!

Hi Purusha!

I heard about that before. A friend of mine told me that even Rode
says REPLACE THE TUBE IF YOU WANT A BETTER SOUND.

I ordered five mics from two music-stores in Germany (Musik-Service and Digital-Audio-Service) for that test.
The Groove Tubes Model 1A (... I remember now ... ;o) and the Nevaton where mics of my friend.
I can not open every tube-mic, look what´s inside it, order a NOS tube that fits and try it again.
Who should pay for all that tubes? :?
And I don´t want to play tricks on the store, open their mics and change some parts ... if something goes wrong ... that may cause trouble :sad:
It´s too bad, I know, because it doesn´t show what the capsule and the electronic is capable of ... really too bad!

The next problem for me is that I was looking for a mic that matches my voice ... now it´s out, I was the singer ... :shock:

The Groove Tubes is discontinued and expensive if you can get a used one.
It sounded best with the VoxBox, so I have to modify the G9 to get that sound.
The second opinion is buying a Nevaton MC416 which sounds absolutely perfect with the G9 on my voice.
The problem ... Nevaton has got big quality problems ... 50% of the mics start to make a high-frequency-humming-noise after a while :roll:

Any Ideas about a good base-mic for modding ?

Hi CJ !

I think that´s what THE LAB is about ... give and take, not only take! :wink:

[quote author="Telmar"]By the way ... does anyone have some ideas how to get the mids down in the G9 ?
I don´t want to use an EQ if I can do it in the circuit.[/quote]


Use a JLM 1:1:1 for the output transformer instead of the Lundahl. There was a thread about it a few weeks ago.


M@

[quote author="mattmoogus"]Use a JLM 1:1:1 for the output transformer instead of the Lundahl. [/quote]

even better use oep transformers for in & out .

[quote author="ioaudio"][quote author="mattmoogus"]Use a JLM 1:1:1 for the output transformer instead of the Lundahl. [/quote]

even better use oep transformers for in & out .[/quote]


:shock:
But he wants LESS midrange (ie, transformer saturation).



M@

he wants colour, no?

no, he doesnt...... stupid me, confused the thread with this

Hi Purusha!

I heard about that before. A friend of mine told me that even Rode
says REPLACE THE TUBE IF YOU WANT A BETTER SOUND.

Click to expand...

I had the chance to borrow two tubes before buying any of them. At first I was kinda surprised about a subtle change. It wasn't a day and night change like I expected. But it's a nice improvement which was needed for K2. I am happy with this mic now.

Anyway if anybody wants to have some fun here are my blind guitar recording results. It would be nice to make a test on vocal too.

A TUBE http://gearslutz.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=14528&d=1137224283

B TUBE http://gearslutz.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=14530&d=1137224605

C TUBE http://gearslutz.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=14531&d=1137225167

I used the original China, NOS Telefunken, NOS Siemens but not in that order. So you tell me which one you like the most.

:green:

Thanks, Telmar - that sort of evaluations are always valuable! :thumb:

[quote author="mattmoogus"]
Use a JLM 1:1:1 for the output transformer instead of the Lundahl. There was a thread about it a few weeks ago.
M@[/quote]

I'm not quite sure why you'd want to do this - the LL5402 that can be used in the G9 is VERY linear in this application and with the related impedances. Colouring probably comes much more from the input transformer and/or source and load impedance matching..

But YMMW..

Jakob E.

When we started the test we choosed a gain setting of 6 (I count the Lorlin from 1 to 11 so 6 is 12 o´clock).
That was too much mids for our task, so we tried to get down with the gain but less than 3 is not possible
because the output-gain was at maximum and just right.
Is it possible to get the output louder ? Perhaps that helps ... lower the input-gain and increase the output ... just an idea ...

Something more about the mids and the VoxBox:
If you hear it first, you get that feeling of ... Oh, wow that thing (the VoxBox) sounds expensive.
After listening a while you realize that the unit got more bass and treble, or in other words, less mids. :wink:

I don´t know why, but it seems like human beings think always something sounds good if it´s got lots of bass and treble.
One example? THE BIG BAD LOUNNESS-SWITCH ! :twisted:
You got bad speakers (kind of nearly no bottom-end) and want to fix it? Just turn up the volume and press the Loudness-switch.
That´s not what it was made for, but sounds sooo goooood !!! :green: ... at least for some poeple ...