using the 1176 as mastering limiter, linking, or build ?

Ok, aside fromt he fact there is no detents;
I have a rev A and the mnats board.
A blackface and a silver face, so the black is the hack and slash mod,
the mnats one is the clean gain mod. All joking aside, they are very close.
I have the box made for the #9 bin and a cable available between them, although I find linking almost useless, how in the ??? does one use that?

I mean, I find matching by hand much closer?

And then, in the end, How in the heck does one supposedly use these as masting limiters? I mean, I can get it fairly close with 1-2-3 db off, and it sounds ok. But I need the metal hit the wall 3-6 db gain type of job done on
a analog limiter, aside from droping 3k and then I still don't know what to buy, what does one do? I mean, I can use a plug, timeworks or L2, but I
can't quite get chimera and metalica levels out of the stuff...

Yes, I know it's insane to do it. I can get awfully close with 2-3 db off the 1176 after the pultec into timeworks or UAD's limiter, but it's DANG hard and not very reproduceable. And can anybody tell me how to use linking work a BEAN? I mean, what's the process to get good stereo limiting? use 1 input gain knob, then one output knob on one 1176, or both output knows on both boxes, and then only attack and release on one, or?

And, I I've read the monster thread a few times, so I don't think I ever found this there. So, hopefully we can answer it here... It's bugged me for
awhile, and best I can find, you have to use both units independant, get them and close as possible with test tones and cross your fingers. BUT THAT IS A PITA if you want to try different input settings, output is easy enough, but the way the 1176 works, it's best to try both. And don't get me started on trying something other than all fast or all slow on attack release...

Ok, enough with rant, hopefully somebody knows. !!!

Hehehe... I'm in the studio with Chimera this evening as it happens! :grin:

Okay, I don't understand the first paragraph very well -at-all.

Detents?

When you say Rev A, do you mean Board revision or an actual UREI rev. A?

What do you mean black and silver face?

UREI rev A was not black face. it was BEFORE black face. LONG before.

I don't know what 'hack and slash' means

If you're trying to link them, are you using an SA11776? -Do you know about that box?

What's a "#9 bin"?

Are your GR meters calibrated correctly? -If not, you can't tell what the HELL is going on with each unit, never mind how well they're tracking in stereo.

Linking for stereo requires a few things, and one of them is that everything be very well set up & calibrated BEFORE you link them... whether they're the same batch or not. You can make 1176's (of whatever type) from the same batch of components, and they'll NEVER track with just a cable between them, you have to have an SA1176 stereo adaptor, and that has to be adjusted for the two specific limiters that it's connected to. The Purple MC76 and MC77 has this stuff on-board, but it still requires calibration and if you plug them into differenc MC76s and MC77's -FROM THE SAME BATCH- they still have to be recalibrated every time... without exception.

I'm really not sure if you knew that or not, and I don't get most of what you're trying to say in your post, so forgive me if you knew that already. The short story is: -If your two 1176's aren't fully calibrated, and if you don't have an SA1176, forget it. I know a lot of people who slipped bits of the calibration when they built their 1176's and they find that the unit compresses nicely, so they're happy. -That's fine, but don't expect another unit to come anywhere near tracking it of you try to link them.

Oh, and don't forget that the 1176 also has some anomalies with the cntrol interaction (release time etc) that is far from instinctive... even when properly set-up, they're not the simplest beasts to use in stereo! (hence the 1178...)

Keith

1176 for mastering :roll: :shock: :? Have you tried one so far for that purpose?

I don't think 1176 will work nice as mastering limiter without the SC HP filter ...

i think the only hope you have of using them for mastering, especially for avoiding stereo image shifting, is to use a sumdifference matrix before and after.

link them, dont link them, but you should process m/s rather than l/r

otherwise, to be totally honest, theres just not much chance of getting a good sound.

i've done a bunch of experimenting linking up my g1176s, and regardless of what i do, even breaded up the sa1176, it just does not do things well enough for a stereo pair, in my opinion.... too much hassle... let alone stereo program

m/s would be a different story, and actually might be something i try out when i get around to building a matrix ;] could actually be pretty cool to use 1176's in that manner

If you use them M/S, you probably DON'T want them to be linked...

Anyhow, even real 1176's tend to 'pump' a little, and they end up run with the input w-a-y down.

Keith

yeah thats what i meant, unlinked, and remix them on two channels, or perhaps an m/s matrix with a balance knob or some'n

my point is pretty much that linking, for me personally, is not worth it whatsoever.

something designed for stereo would be an all around better plan

I am suprissed that anyone is using the 1176 for mastering purposes as they tend to cut off the low frequencies too much...

[quote author="Purusha"]I am suprissed that anyone is using the 1176 for mastering purposes as they tend to cut off the low frequencies too much...[/quote]
...huh?

You're joking, of course!

-Or there's a miscommunication perhaps...

Keith

mastering with 1176 then you use all in mode aka nuke I.E. push in all for ratio buttons. There instant master :razz:

[quote author="SSLtech"][quote author="Purusha"]I am suprissed that anyone is using the 1176 for mastering purposes as they tend to cut off the low frequencies too much...[/quote]
...huh?

You're joking, of course!

-Or there's a miscommunication perhaps...

Keith[/quote]

I am not joking :wink:

I never heard that someone had ever used the 1176 for mastering. I also tried mine but what came out was just thinner than what came in. I don't know why but otherwise it's a great rocking comp on vocals and guitars...

[quote author="SSLtech"]The Purple MC76 and MC77 has this stuff on-board, but it still requires calibration and if you plug them into differenc MC76s and MC77's -FROM THE SAME BATCH- they still have to be recalibrated every time... without exception.
[/quote]

if the unit is not correctly calibrated to begin with, you don't have a chance of any kind of stereo tracking. when we get orders for pairs we try to match them as closely as possible, but the reality is that the 1176 circuit doesn't lend itself well to stereo linking.

[quote author="SSLtech"]
Oh, and don't forget that the 1176 also has some anomalies with the cntrol interaction (release time etc) that is far from instinctive... even when properly set-up, they're not the simplest beasts to use in stereo! (hence the 1178...)

Keith[/quote]

this is one area where the MC77 (not the MC76) was improved; the stereo link circuit is buffered so that when two units are linked in stereo at least the release times do not double, and otherwise interact with each other.

i see the 1176 type limiters as color devices; very useful and multifunctional ones, but not what i would pick for mastering.

ed

this mastering house uses an 1176 for mastering in their studio A

http://www.peerlessmastering.com/splash/

it's a 1176 copy Made by ESE

2176uln Dual channel fet peak limiter

Circuit design of 2176uln is loosely based on the famous "black face" Urei 1176, with special attention to best possible noise performance and sound neutrality.
The pinciple of gain reduction and control is identical to the original, but there are some unique features in the design of the ESE 2176uln :

- lower noise achieved with our custom special mains transformer, careful parts selection, layout design, proprietary PSU and overall construction quality
- with link function, both cannels remain tightly coupled (less than 0.5 dB difference for up to 10 dB of gain reduction)
- output stage is true class A, based on Neve 1073
- 2 channels in just 2U of rack space, very sturdy, can survive touring conditions
- temperature stability usualy overlooked, was taken very seriously and measures were taken so there is no GR meter 0dB drift


Features:
- transformer balanced inputs and outputs
- class A output stage
- separate power supply for each channel
- link function
- 5 compression ratios including famous "ALL" position
- tightly matched channel fets
- hand wired with Mogami cable
- Beyschlag resistors, Wima MKP coupling caps, ELNA and Os-Con audio grade electrolitics, Lundahl input transformers and proprietary custom output transformers

SPECIFICATIONS
INPUT: floating, transformer isolated
INPUT IMPEDANCE: 10k balanced and floating
MAX. INPUT LEVEL: +20dBm (ref. 0.775V rms as 0dB)
MAX. GAIN: 45dB, +/- 1dB
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: +/-1dB, 10Hz-100.000Hz
OUTPUT: floating balanced, transformer isolated
OUTPUT LOAD: 600 Ohms or greater
MAX. OUTPUT LEVEL: +24dBm/600 Ohms
RESIDUAL NOISE: -81dBm, at treshold of limiting, 30Hz to 15 kHz
ATTACK TIME: less than 20uS for 100% recovery, adjustable to to 800uS
RELEASE TIME: 50mS to 1.1seconds (for 63% recovery)
RATIO: 4:1, 8:1, 12:1, 20:1, All
POWER REQUIREMENT: 200-240V (115V USA), 50/60Hz, 20W

Click to expand...

this mastering house uses an 1176 for mastering in their studio A

http://www.peerlessmastering.com/splash/

it's a 1176 copy Made by ESE

Click to expand...

Really? That's the one I have. :shock: :grin:





I guess I'll have to give it a another shoot :wink: :green:

well in all fairness I have yet to see therm use it but it is in their rack of mastering gear :wink:

I know the owner of the studio who makes the ESE stuff and I often work there too and I know that the main mastering guy there doesn't use the ESE 2176ULN for mastering.

OK, eventually one could use the 2176ULN if somebody brings 4 groups of mixed stereo tracks to the mastering session and for example stereo vocal track is then run through the 2176ULN. In this situation I would use this unit without the second thought. But not on the stereo mix as the only mastering compressor/limiter. Maybe only as one of few compressors in parallel compressing technique. This is what I often do and it does the trick also when doing mastering.

Uh, oh, way too coloured for mastering work. :shock: No-go.

The only application I can see (and gonna try) is parallel compression. There, it might actually work OK, but will need some tweaking.

In a parallel world (or universe) it might be nice to drop some color into a master. An engineer I once knew had a pair of some Dolby things he would throw onto a buss for high end tweaks. I saw the same units in Emily Lazar's rack and there is no way it would be used in series with a mix. I always go for that kind of stuff when I mix live, even on those PM5Ds I hate. :?

It might be cool after a crossover as well, but I'm a rebel.