To DIY or not to DIY, (mic preamp), that´s the question..

I know there is an infinite posibilities of desgining a mic preamp, and also there are lot of kits out there like SCA, Eisen, jlmaudio ..
I want to learn the most posible about to someday can select the components of my preamp.. but till then I think it will pass a long time, so.. for now my doubt is:
go for DAV BG1?
Buy a kit?
DAv BG1 costs around 700. There are much people that tells it´s awesome, other people tells it could be built for a few dollars. The question is that it can be powered by battery, is portable, and seems not expensive, and good quality.
The kits? Many I have found would cost little near than 700 for stereo, or something less, but no great diference. what I don´t know if they sound better (know it´s subjective), to can compensate the mounting work.
Do you have an opinion of any of them? Have compared any of the kits with the DAV?
What to you recomend me to start?
I have no probems on soldering and undertanding schematic, the only thing I´m afraid of is to build the pcb. If there is availbe schematics here to can allow me build a high-end quality preamp, it would worth the work.

I haven't heard the DAV but I can make a general point that might help. If your focus right now is making and recording music buy the DAV (or any decent pre). If you want to spend lots and lots of time learning about electronics with the eventual arrival or a working piece of gear go the DIY route - it's really satisfying but it's not music. The kits fall somewhere in the middle, you may save a little and learn a little.

For every night I spend reading about electronics, hanging here and messing with circuits I've spent a night less writing , tracking and mixing music. I'm happy with that because I run a commercial studio all day so I've had enough music at the end of the day. For a guy sitting at home who records his own tunes I would recommend just getting a pre and get on with making music. The notion that pre X can be built "for a few dollars" is becoming a little pervasive on the boards (not here) but it has little enough to do with fact unless you have acquired the necessary skills (now we're back to spending every night on electronics ,


hope this helps without discouraging the DIYer in you,
cheers,
Ruairi

I haven't heard the DAV but I can make a general point that might help

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It helped. Very good reply.

The notion that pre X can be built "for a few dollars" is becoming a little pervasive on the boards (not here) but it has little enough to do with fact unless you have acquired the necessary skills (now we're back to spending every night on electronics ,

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My idea is getting a pre to can make music, and at the same time, go adquiring skills, slowly, depending of my time avaible.
I had the doubt of the kits, but as you tell, is not a high price diference, so I think I´ll go for the DAv to can be making music for now.
As for the desing learning, I´m reading this thread: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=3291&highlight=preamp+mic+theory
Would be nice any other link you consider useful.
I have basic electronic knowledge, zener, diodes, transitor, resistor, condenser. Know how they work but I´m newbie on specific designs.
What I studied on school was about AM/FM circuits, transitor setups, Basics about TV... The only thing I´m afraid of is on translating some technical words to Spanish. :?

I highly recommend a Green-Pre.
They sound amazing, and all the parts, pcbs - and best of all - HELP, can be found here.
I'm very happy with my 2 channel Green... and not to continue that thing thats pervading the boards. :wink: it cost me about 300.00 to build two channels, and I think is equal to anything in the 1000 dollar (store bought) range.

Also, you mentioned batteries - it can be made to run on batteries.

try an emu 1820m if you can find one. In the USA about $500.00

I built two channels of green using good parts and I like the pres in the 1820m better plus you get good converters.

Here is a green pre question for the lab. Who has built one and compared it to other pres and wonders like me whats the big deal?

well, seeing as he mentioned portable - I guess that rules out the emu 1820, doesn't it?


What were you looking for in a pre? something that would color the sound? If so, the Green is not for you.

I was looking for something that was sonically clean and quiet. I am not interested in coloring sound at this point - either it's done before or after the pre stage.
Most of what I'm recording is either classical music or sound design based stuff for film.

The Green, compared to other pres I tested it against, has a wider dynamic range and sounds like someone lifted gauze off the sound.

It also made me very aware of the room, the sound outside of the room, and what my various mics really sounded like. I can hear the air...

http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU1616

Have not heard one. look at the price and it is portable

Also for DIY remember batterys are noisy power so are 3 term regs. There was a good link here about noise from different power supplys.

[quote author="stefanzap"]
What were you looking for in a pre? something that would color the sound? If so, the Green is not for you.

I was looking for something that was sonically clean and quiet. I am not interested in coloring sound at this point - either it's done before or after the pre stage.
Most of what I'm recording is either classical music or sound design based stuff for film.

The Green, compared to other pres I tested it against, has a wider dynamic range and sounds like someone lifted gauze off the sound.

It also made me very aware of the room, the sound outside of the room, and what my various mics really sounded like. I can hear the air...[/quote]

I don´t want color. I want a Pro preamp. Clear, detailed, precision on low levels, take each harmonic. Seems it corresponds to what you tell about the Green, now, what preamps did you compare agaisnt?
Look at this web, there are some comparisons between preamps, the DAV BG1, seems to sound very good compared with other great preamps like Universal Audio. I would prefer the DAV against the UA on the Acoustic guitar, and female volcal tracks. Take a look:http://www.target-music.ch/studio/sounds.htm
If I can build the Green for 300 and sound as good as the DAV, I think it would be a good choice.

When I built my 2 Channel Green pre It only cost me maybe $25 per channel as I etched my own PCB"s and did the First version of green pre that didn"t have the bells and whistles.....

For me as a newbie DIYer it was a great place for me to start and I really like the sound of the Pre"s as they are better than anything else that I have....

Since building my first green I have gone on to designing several preamps and of the ones that I was able to prototype they have all worked and sounded quite good....

My present pre project is a design that I have been working on for a little while...It is a Mic pre with 4 Gain stages, The first stage is a Simple Transistor stage with about 20db of gain, the next stages use 2 6418 sub-miniature Tubes in series with the first tube at Unity gain and the second tube with gain adjustment of about 8.... The last stage is a Non-inverting ballanceing stage that is adjustable from 6db to 18db.... There is also a 20db pad and a Clip indicator and phantom power.....I will probably get a chance to test it this week end if I find time.....


Cheers

[quote author="Gus"]Here is a green pre question for the lab. Who has built one and compared it to other pres and wonders like me whats the big deal?[/quote]
I've built
and
the big deal is that it is better than most of the budget pres and small consoles that were on the market at the time when Pete posted the web page

that probably still holds true today

if you compare to a high class pre with picked components that is truly working as it should then it could be had to find what the big deal is.

many people just don't have the budget to obtain some of that stuff.

the same probably goes for the G9 from Jakob

Also for DIY remember batterys are noisy power so are 3 term. regs

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why are batteries noisy ?
that's just simply not my experience
perhaps I need to use some better test gear

About batteries - I was wondering the same... I always thought they were quieter than AC. No line noise, etc.

yep
but knowing Gus there will be something in it
he is into details

but as I said above
from my experience
with batteries with enough current capability and short contained wiring I've had my best results on batteries

I don't own an Audio Precision but have a Sound Technologies 1710A and do use the some PC based units including the LMS card.
The is a machine at work I call the WobbyGong ... obviously that's not it's real name
and for now I just can't remember the real name
:roll:
oops
seniors moment

coffee time
coffee, coffee, coffee

Wobbygong.........thats a shark with a beard, right?

yep

a face only a mother could love

if you compare to a high class pre with picked components that is truly working as it should then it could be had to find what the big deal is.

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That´s exactly what I want to know now. The DAV BG1 sounds even better the preamps over 1000$,and for be much better than Neve Portico.
A Green for 25$ seems very cheap :roll: , for 300$ would need to hear side by side with a high class one, BG1, Universal Audio, Avalon, Neve..
Just spend a little time listening them: http://www.target-music.ch/studio/sounds.htm

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/regulators_noise1_e.html

last page

Search is your friend

And why is this thread in the drawing board?

Bca* gave this link

[quote author="lagoausente"]That´s exactly what I want to know now. The DAV BG1 sounds even better the preamps over 1000$,and for be much better than Neve Portico.
A Green for 25$ seems very cheap :roll: , for 300$ would need to hear side by side with a high class one, BG1, Universal Audio, Avalon, Neve..
Just spend a little time listening them: http://www.target-music.ch/studio/sounds.htm[/quote]

Add the labour, the box, PSU, transformer etc... it ends up being a lot more... but you still get a lot of pre for the money. I have Neve, API, Lavry, Portico, Telefunken, Spectra Sonics, Hamptone Pres in my studio along with my Greens and quality wise they are up there, though sound very different. There is no 'holy grail' mic pre, it is all about options and colours. If you want to get into DIY, build one, it is cheap and sounds great compared to any budget pre under a few hundred $$$ if not, move on and buy something you think will work for you, no need to have to stand here and compare it to 'other' pres.

And not to come off sounding like a dork, but I A> Don't have time to listen to those pre clips B> Don't feel that they can tell me much about how they will react to my use(s) based on them, C> Have enough of my own, or access to enough others to make an informed decision about what pres I need/want.

Use the search engine, or check out the META's, there is a lot of information there about the Green Pre.. I know, I put it together...

Agreed with Gus, this is not a place for this kind of thread, it should be in the Lab or Brewery.

Cheers

Matt

Agreed with Gus, this is not a place for this kind of thread, it should be in the Lab or Brewery.

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Have writed pm to administrator to move the thread to Lab.

if not, move on and buy something you think will work for you, no need to have to stand here and compare it to 'other' pres.

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it´s not an easy decision. If hearing clips is not very useful, the same is about opinions.

Have enough of my own, or access to enough others to make an informed decision about what pres I need/want.

Click to expand...

I don´t have. Maybe you can give me a help.

Use the search engine, or check out the META's, there is a lot of information there about the Green Pre.. I know, I put it together...

Click to expand...

I would like your opinion of the Green compared with the other gear you have.
I have around 700 for a stereo pre, might be portable, not rack wide.
I have a Presonus Mp20, what is nor portable. I heared it on www.3daudioinc.com 3d pre cd. A real comparison with high-class pres.
It sounded near as clean as other much more expensive, and costed me 600.
I now want a portable preamp, a high class one with no color needed. To record vocals, and acoustic instruments, like acoustic guitar.
The DAV BG1 costs 700, but perhaps has a "big" sound but with low attack.
If I take the preamp of a cheap mixer, it sounds quite bad, distorted, noising, harsh. The Mp20 sounds clean, transparent, natural, and take quite well the low levels, like for example the breathing when singing. That´s what I¨m looking now as portable device, DC or AC is no problem.
Can I buy the pcb for the Green anywhere?

I don´t have. Maybe you can give me a help.

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With what? I have said there is info in the META's. While I don't have clips there comparing it to HIGH pres there is enough to know it beats the pants of budget pres of built in soundcard pres like the Digidesign, MOTU and M-Audio ones.

I would like your opinion of the Green compared with the other gear you have.

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Compared to what? All my pres... I'd be here for a while! Everyone of them has a unique sonic character I like, some work well on some sources, but terrible on others, it is about playing and seeing what combo of source, mic and pre I like.

The Green Pre sounds, open, detailed and fairly flat with a nice gentle lift in the mids that leads to a surprisingly 'warm' tone for an IC, transformer less design.

Can I buy the pcb for the Green anywhere?

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Check here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=7192 I'm sure Ptown could hook you up with just the PCB.

Cheers

Matt

[quote author="Gus"]http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/regulators_noise1_e.html
last page , Search is your friend , And why is this thread in the drawing board? ...[/quote]
thanks Gus
as I said, in my experience I haven't been able to reproduce these results.
I don't feel that batteries can produce the noise and I feel the noise could be coming from the surrounding equipment and even the test gear.
Even on batteries I use the normal power smoothing techniques and noise and crosstalk rejecting methods.

why in the drawing board ? ... I don't know