dmlandrum

Whether 'tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of some manufacturer getting ticked off at you or by creating original designs, end them.

Okay, so Shakespeare was never my strong suit, but the question remains a valid one. All references to Raelians aside, how do you view DIY cloning versus trying to create original designs?

First, another question: With analog audio design having been around for eighty years or more, are there truly any worthwhile original designs left, or has it all been done? While the answer to that last may be "no", finding original designs and new ideas may be much more difficult now than it was forty years ago.

This topic arises from the conversation in the "Mount Everest" thread, wherein I stated my opinion on building clones. I feel the need to clarify a bit here.

In the process of deciding what I'd like to build, I have always given much more weight to the original designs available, rather than to clones. The G9 mic pre, the G7 mic, Marik's ribbon mic, and a couple of others. In the final analysis, I would much rather have gear like this because it is new and unique in the world. Not very many people use these designs in their studios.

For a while, I thought it might be cool to build a pair of U47-approximation clones, and then Gus drops his all-original design on us, and I think, "hey! I could do that, too!" It certainly is simple enough.

But on top of all that, much of the gear I'm building are "clones". A pair of API 312-like pres, a G1176, and later on, an LA2a. Sometimes, a design is so good, you just can't ignore it.

So let's hear your views here. Don't be shy, and don't be afraid of sounding selfish. That's what opinions are all about.  :thumb:
Darren Landrum

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.


[email protected]

Re: To clone or not to clone? That is the question.
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2004, 11:47:42 AM »
So what is the question?

Tamas

dmlandrum

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2004, 11:53:33 AM »
Hrm, you know, that's a good question. :grin: I'm suddenly not too sure what I'm trying to ask here. It seemed like a good idea at the time, though.

How about this? Let's create a thread where we can compile all of the original designs presented to The Lab. An "original designs" metathread sort of idea.

How's that for a question?
Darren Landrum

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

dmlandrum

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2004, 12:10:50 PM »
I'm not too sure I follow you, kubi...

I will define "original design" as a device design presented to us directly from its designer. Gus' condenser mic, the G7 and G9, PRR's 12AU7 vari-mu compressor, and Fred Forsell's opti compressor all qualify, as well as many others I missed, I'm sure.

If I'm going to volunteer to manage a meta thread, I may as well also pitch in on an acoustics meta as well.
Darren Landrum

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

NewYorkDave

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2004, 12:16:27 PM »
Jack (AMZ's) story about his design--which he freely shared on the web--being ripped off by commercial maufacturers is certainly sobering.

dmlandrum

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2004, 12:20:54 PM »
Okay, I see your point.

I seem to be seeing pros and cons from all sides here. One side says "let's focus on original designs", while another says "but then they get ripped off by $big_name_maunfacturer."

I fear there will be no happy medium here.
Darren Landrum

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

[email protected]

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2004, 12:21:24 PM »
Dave,

Don't for a second believe that this place isn't alredy being frequented by major manufactures to scrounge for ideas. The nature of sharing an idea in this world seems to be that you pretty much give it up for grabs. This is not just the US. Asia is the ripping-off/cloning capital of the universe. If you are worried that someone will make money on it then DO NOT SHARE IT WITH ANYONE. This includes your pets.

If you are willing to let go of it completely in all forms, share it and you will have no heartache.

Tamas

Gus

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2004, 12:41:57 PM »
NewYorkDave


  Some of the early cool sites I found on the web were Jack's then DMZ, Ampage.org,  R.G.'s Geofex and the Lepers Abode.  Alot of current petals are due to sites like them IMO.

  The mini booster(DMZ now AMZ) and all the  the rangemaster clones(Geofex).  I did a bit of work on Si fuzz face type circuits and Aron's stompbox page uses my simple booster(NPN boost not a clone) as a beginner project.  The booster is a simple build and sounds good driving a tube amp.  The circuit will bias up with almost any Si transistor and the tone changes with different Hfe and gain setting because of the bootstrapping and input R change with gain.  add a EF with a transformer for a nice DI  http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewforum.php?f=6

  You have to a calmness about yourself if you post ideas on the web.  I always remind myself that what ever one posts will be around for along time.  If it is a good idea someone might take it and make it a product.  Don't post if you think it will cause yourself stress now or later.

Peter Simonsen

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2004, 12:56:27 PM »
My take on this would be...it would be very hard to design something completely new..I mean..It´s all gonna be "based" on something old..*S*

Cloning something that is know as a "public design"..cool..etc , or old school designs that is not build anymore..(hence my PCB layout to share for the "990 type" opamp pack)

My hmm feelings against cloning is just as much of ethic-reasons..I just dont belive in making money on other peoples business..ymmv and I surely hate it when people are trying to make money on my work (guess why ??). And I understand very well why somebody like "the M-word" etc..would not like to see their schematics online in public.

I´m all for "new" designs........and Learning from the past..Hell I dont know many who didn´t, or dont do that.. :?:  Its just that we..or at least I..for one would  like to respect a manufacturer..who´s trying to survive...making any money in this crazy world of audio of today..and I for one does not belive that this done by cloning their work, and showing all their schematics in public. Just like I do not belive in using cracked software..(and you wont belive how many "pro-studios" who does that)..again ymmv..

All the best, and kind regards

Peter

toby

Original designs metathread? (was:To clone or not to clone?)
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2004, 01:20:21 PM »
i'd say on this forum there are many, myself inculded, who when building a new toy look at previous designs as reaserch, identify the key points of how this is working and adapt this to what budget/materials they have available.

an example is i'm building a compressor based on a western electric 1126. (http://www.waltzingbear.com/Schematics/Misc/KOIN_WE_limiting_Amp.htm)
its a very standard varimu layout, apart from all those grids!! i have used the same tubes, and all that crazy stuff going on with the grids, but very heavily modded everthing else.

in summary, i think it depends how closely things are copied from the origional. i like the sound of very simple circuits, and theres only so many things you can do with a tube, so i guess i destined to fall in to the 'cloner' camp whatever i build.


 

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