GE BA 5A Vari Mu limiter guided tour needed any info ?????

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Whoa...thanks for sharing Doug.

emrr said:
Differs with the all pass filter creating instantaneous limiting,

This is crazy. You can't possibly get a full bandwidth delay of any meaningful time with a couple of inductors and caps. EMT had to use like 6 stages of active filters get a couple ms analog delay in they're limiter. And even then I feel like the delay wasn't consistent throughout the whole 20 to 20k.

What am I missing here?

 
I dunno.  I didn't check for overshoot.  It does not sound like anything is getting by at all.  It does have cathode follower 6Y6 or 6V6 pairs driving a pair of 6X5's in the side chain, so I assume very low Z drive for speed ahead of any delay created.  That interstage area with the all pass filter is 600 ohms. 
 
Can you put a dual trace scope on it before and after the delay network and sweep a sine wave? See if you can see the delay?
 
> the latter guy stated that these things weight 75lbs? .... holy smoke.

Wuss. Transmitters are heavy. The puny BT-1-B, a mere 250 Watt FM transmitter, is 765 pounds net (half-ton packed to travel).
 

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> You can't possibly get a full bandwidth delay of any meaningful time with a couple of inductors and caps

It appears to be a pure 50 microSecond shift. 250uS to 300uS... 50uS delay.

The frequency response is dead flat, of course. The phase shift is exactly what it should be: zero to 180 degrees (passing 150deg at the top of the audio band).

 

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Thanks PRR.

PRR said:
The phase shift is exactly what it should be: zero to 180 degrees (passing 150deg at the top of the audio band).

So the time is changing throughout the audio bandwidth. Looks like its 50uS at 1K? What is the delay at 20hz? and 20Khz? Sorry I'm a little dim and can't calculate phase shift vs. time.
 
emrr said:
Ok.....almost 11 years since the last post. 

I've belatedly (sorry) finished going through a pair of these, and they are pretty cool sounding. 

No slouches in General Electric Engineering dept, I can't think of anything else in tube audio electronics that called for a bipolar 250V PSU, looking at tubes with their plates connected to ground and -250VDC fed through resistors to cathodes will  mess with your head.  Massive external dual tube regulated PSU feeding an amp with 14 tubes, and only a single electrolytic in the amp on the +250VDC side, none at all on the -250VDC side.    23 total tubes for mono, in 13RU and around 80 lbs. 

The super comprehensive DC current meter (30 microamps) will check B+ and B-, most of the tubes, balance match of the 6J5 feedback pair, and gain reduction. 

Using it along with the VU, which can look at signal before and after the gain reduction amp, you can get comparative gain reduction readings on 2 different scales, which confirms you've aligned it correctly.  If it's not aligned correctly, the GR meter will tell you it's doing something when it's not doing much at all. 

These things are damn flat for 1945, both examples are within a dB or so from 20-30K, audio going through 4 audio transformers and one all-pass filter. 

Thordarson transformers too, so frequently maligned as inferior.  No, they definitely aren't.  1940's Collins Radio gear with Thordarsons also measures at higher bandwidth than many competitors. 

That input transformer for the gain reduction amp:  also rarely seen, a 600:600 feeding PP tube grids.

Really meaty and hi-fi sounding.  None of the smush of a vari-mu....since it isn't one.  Reminds me of the other feedback tube limiters I've heard, Collins 26-C being one.  Differs with the all pass filter creating instantaneous limiting, and the multiple time constant means it really doesn't pump like a vari-mu.  I tried altering the time constant to see what would happen, and it was nothing good. 

The input control is more precise than most tube limiters, (30) 1dB steps. 

The output control is interesting, these are meant to hit a very specific +12dBm output level with limiting calibrated as designed, so the range is 9dB total in 0.2dB steps.  I haven't seen a Daven control so fine in detail anywhere else.  It does not affect compression in any way, so as the manual states, effectively a vernier control for max output. 

There's an interesting story I tend to believe, that at least one NBC owned high power station used this, with all other equipment being RCA ( mandated, naturally), though the GE was repainted and rebranded RCA to avoid scrutiny from visiting corporate types.

Dang and wow.
And only 25k for a pair (some guys asking anyway).
 
Wow, I never posted the pictures......


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I had to have a custom meter made with a new face, several hundred dollars for that. 

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One PSU had a bad PT, the fix was to add a filament transformer and a Power One regulated B+ supply inside.  I have another limiter with no PSU, and that's what I'll end up doing with it. 

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Hey sorry to revive.

Doug, do you mind if I ask where you had the meter remade? I have a few 5A's in the shop and one has a cracked meter.
Both DC meters are a bit lethargic as well, moving slowly and not returning to the same starting position.
The VU meters on the other hand are very sharp in their movements.
Thanks for all the schematic and links everyone (y)
 
Hey sorry to revive.

Doug, do you mind if I ask where you had the meter remade? I have a few 5A's in the shop and one has a cracked meter.
Both DC meters are a bit lethargic as well, moving slowly and not returning to the same starting position.
The VU meters on the other hand are very sharp in their movements.
Thanks for all the schematic and links everyone (y)
custom order from here, of course they put in inn their catalog.
https://www.metersales.com/shop/category/analog-panel-meters-apm-audio-level-139
 

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