sta-level output attenuator

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bradb

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Joined
May 5, 2005
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I seem to remember some kinda chart or something that lets you vary the output attenuation on a stay level by changing a resistor (maybe i'm getting confused with the attack / decay table???)

I've got a balanced 20dB H-pad on the output there and its too severe. Should I build a 10dB or slap something new into the existing output attenuator?

Lower the 200 Ohm resistor and bump up the 160s?

thanks guys!
 
Is the stock 10-16 db (quoting from manual) variable output pad still installed, and do you have a 600-680 ohm load on it? Another 20db sounds way too severe, if that's what you're saying. The stock variable pad is a 10 db 600 ohm H type with the 1K variable resistor shorted fully. You could change all the H values. There's H charts around here somewhere, and various places on the web.
 
I replaced the 1k pot used in the H-pad with a fixed resistor and then put a Langevin 20 dB attenuator (in 1 dB steps) in its place on the front panel and after it in the circuit. That works pretty well.
 
Hey guys,
thanks for the help.

I'm driving an apogee rosetta which, if i remember right has about a 500Ohm input impedance.

I think that the values in the existing H-pad are not for 600ohm - 600ohm operation, it seems imbalanced? The legs are not the same. It seems to be for 740ohm - 600ohm.

Should I just redesign an H-pad including the 1k variable pot? I need more than 16dB but less than 36dB. maybe a 25 db pad would be perfect! Should I go for 740ohm - 600ohm?

What do you guys think?

PS: emrr, don't you mean that that with the 1k pot shorted the attenuation is maximum, 16dB? I just need to be sure about this.
 
I'd bet the Rosetta has at least a 5K input impedance, if not much higher. I don't know. Therefore; ohms law for parallel impedances to come up with a load resistor to make a 600 ohm H (or T) pad attenuate correctly INTO a 600 ohm load.

I don't have one to play with; fully shorted would be max attenuation, but is 'by the book' 10 db, and less at any other setting unless I'm not understanding something. It's a textbook 10 db 600/600 H pad at that setting, meant to reduce 10db between two 600 ohm devices. Change the impedances and you get a different attenuation.

Not sure what you mean about the legs not being the same; four identical leg resistors is indeed the same on both sides. Maybe you have a mod or a different schematic I've never seen.

You might do best to scrap the built-in pad/output control and build NewYorkDave's variable H pad as an outboard box. I also agree with putting a Daven type 600/600 ladder on the output. It's not symetrical, but it works fine and you shouldn't be scared by the idea. You can shell out the big bucks for a Daven T or H, but it ain't gonna make a noticable difference. The ladder has an automatic 6 db loss, and has a more relatively fixed impedance load on it's input side, without having to be loaded like a T or H to get attenuation that matches the settings. Plus, people are scared of asymetrical ladders and haven't driven their cost up....yet. Most are 40db total in 2 db steps.

Even cheaper, more scary, and just as good: Daven 150/300 ladder with your output transformer re-connected for 150 ohms. Transformer re-tap will give a few db more level loss.
 
150/300 ladder

Gates used those in mixing consoles such as my "Studioette"--insertion loss 3dB less than an equal-impedance ladder. Clever bastards :thumb:

People are really hung up on line output attenuators being balanced. Many times here, I've tried to explain that it doesn't always matter that much--but I usually get an incredulous response, since it contradicts the conventional wisdom of many "experts" on the web. (I guess they're not looking hard enough at those old schematics to notice all the bridged Ts hanging off input and output terminals!). As you say, maybe it's just as well 'cause it keeps the prices down for those in the know.
 
Collins used them on the later 212 E/F/G consoles also. Sorry Dave; I'm giving away too many 'trade secrets'. :oops:
 

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