Ilya

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« on: March 24, 2007, 01:43:50 AM »
I was just wondering if it's possible to crimp EDAC pins with a general crimp tool. Have anybody done it? Any suggestions on crimper type/gauge?
Original tool is very hard to get here, and it is a little bit expensive...
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com


sintech

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2007, 05:15:25 AM »
I always buy the EDAC solder pins over the crimp ones, this is great for recycling and also you don't need the really expensive eject tool also.

Ilya

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2007, 10:10:26 AM »
sintech, why don't you need an eject tool with solder pins?
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com

sintech

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2007, 10:24:29 AM »
Cause the pin stays in place and you can resolder if you make a mistake or want to change things about... with a crimp you need to eject and replace.

I just rewired everything here to Edac, and I was able to recycle all my ADAT edac looms from the early 90's :-) so solder pins was forward thinking from back then!

Ilya

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2007, 11:01:34 AM »
Oh, I see... Didn't think about that.
I guess I'll need an insertion tool though...
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com

Gold

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2007, 11:17:48 AM »
You don't need an insertion tool. They will click into place with something like a little screwdirver. Personally I don't like the solder pins. I found the connections broke under abuse. Maybe it was me, but after being burned onece I never used them again. It probably had to do with cable type. I was using an oldstyle stiff cable. The blue Gepco which has a stiff jacket and stiff tinned wire strands. It probably wouldn't be as much of an issue with something like Mogami. If the cables are for yourself use the solder. If they are for someone else I would consider dropping the cash for a crimp tool.

Gold

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2007, 11:22:38 AM »
double post

Ilya

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2007, 11:24:41 AM »
Basically, we're doing a wiring in the studio for a new desk, EDACs won't be exercised much, I guess. I need to think more thoroughly though.
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com

Gold

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2007, 12:43:45 PM »
The main trick for doing neat work and having the cables fit in the cover is to use the pin length as a template.  Use the length of the pin (not including the strain relief/solder eye part) to measure the amount to cut the pairs in the descending rows. Load the connector from the bottom up.

barclaycon

Edac Tool
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2007, 10:53:45 PM »
Ilya. Do you want to buy an Edac Tool?
I've got one for sale.
I've also got some bags of Edac pins, some shells and covers.
PM me if you are interested.


Svart

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2007, 02:43:52 AM »
I have all EDAC for my console as well, I used solder pins.. but watch out, the EDAC housing tends to get soft really quick if you hold the heat on there for more than a second.  Solder, let it cool completely, solder, let it cool, etc.

Don't ask how I know this.l.. :oops:
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

W DeMarco

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 10:06:47 AM »
Im with Svart on this Q.  I have both the tool and solder pins but can barley stand the crimper.  First off if want your hands to feel like their arthritic the crimper is the perfect way to go.  That crimper hurts me bad!  I have seen many crimp connections fail over time.  and repairing those are a *****.  Also means you'll need the pin removal tool.  Go for the solder, They are much easier to deal with!

Golds point is good,  real estate is limited in the head so cable prep is very important.  You can find good preps here !  http://www.kyocera-elco.com/prdct/type/e_wire/8026.html  find the appropriate series, 56 pin is in the 8016 series for example, and openthe pdf file which will have your wire prep lengths.

I found that if you attach your pins, whether crimp or solder, to all wiring first then inserting the pins to the head makes things quicker, easier and less prone to screwups.

BTW if you need any male 56 pin elcos let me know I have a half dozen with no mates.  

Not to sure if this guy would ship to you but its my source for parts.

http://www.audiogear.com/EdcELcoCart.html

Finally, don't you dare buy the insert tool, I use a set of needle nose pliers or a precision screwdriver, or my teeth!

Pinouts:
http://www.rapco.com/catalog/edacpinout.htmhttp://advancedaudiorentals.com/ref/elco90.cfm
http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/data/cables/edac_pinout1.htmlhttp://www.clarkwire.com/PinOutEDACELCO120.htm
http://www.whirlwindusa.com/dload.html#con

Have fun!

pucho812

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 10:52:57 AM »
I have yet to find an alternative to the edac crimp tool. If you need one go buy one or rent a crimp machine. :twisted:   Those machines rent out all the time in town and use a special belt fed pin much like a machine gun bullet feed you seen in all the movies. Better then the 10K it costs to buy them. Those things are killer and speed up things. Only good when you gotta do a few 1000 pins  quickly or to keep from getting carpul tunnel. I have logged thusands of hours with crimp and or solder elco pins. Here is what I have noticed.
If you use the crimp kind, you better find a way that is comfortable to operate the crimp tool as  it will give you hand cramps. I usually just rest one handle on my leg and then just push down on the other handle. This has worked for me and a good way to keep from getting carpul(sp) tunnel. Secondly a crimp alone does not make a great connection so a lil dab of solder after you crimp works great. Solder right at the crimp. Keep it clean and neat.   I can show you some pics if you like.

With Solder pins you are slightly more flexable as one can reuse them.  Here is wha I suggest when soldering. After you solder, Heatshrink the solder connection on all wires as it will make it look good and work great.
Unless your doing a super quick fix never ever solder elco pins in the elco. As stated before one can melt the elco and cause the pin to not sit right.  Not a big deal except makes it not work right with the other side.
As far as pinning and de-pinning, There are few ways to go. ON the de-pinn side you gotta use a de-pin tool. I have used  small screwdrivers before to remove pins and it was very caveman or bushman like style. That means it worked in a pinch but was ugly and I had to put on a whole new pin.  So get a de-pin tool they are kind of expensive but with proper use can last a long time. My first de-pin tool lasted over 10 years and eventually broke when my buddy borrowed it.  :cry:  We(me and my de-crimp) wired some good studios together.  SO you have to have one of them.
As for pinning the elco itself use a small screwdriver. It will work fine and as long as you do not force it you will not do any damage.  Make sure you hear that lil click sound so you know your pin is in place otherwise it might come out when attaching it to another elco and you will not have a good connection.

Aside from that, Use standard pinouts as if you ever need to get a cable from the store, It will work with your system.  Some consoel compaines like never have their own quirky pinout, Make an elco to elco that converts that to a normal standard for the same reason stated. I usually will do no more the 24 channels per elco and usually use 90 pin elcos. I still follow the standard pinout just leave out channels 25 and up on each elco.

Lastly always good to have on hand extra single cables made of connector to elco that way when your wiring up a rack and need to swap gear  you can do so with ease.

I also suggest doing this, Wiring the outboard racks to an elco mounted in the back of the rack. THe do an elco to elco cable all the way to the console. If you ever had to move, you would then just need to make another elco to elco. Same goes  tape machines, mic pannels and such. This keeps it completely modular. Now some may argure about the sonics and doing to many connectors but screw that as I have yet to have anyonje complaign about it sounding bad.

IF you need pinouts and so forth just ask. I can hook you up with some good diagrams.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Ilya

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2007, 11:52:13 AM »
Quote
We(me and my de-crimp) wired some good studios together.
LOL!!! That sounds great!
pucho812, thanks for the info, especially for details on werking with the tool (I've just recieved the crimp and ejection tools).
Do you suggest heatshrinking the crimp contacts as well?
Regarding pinouts, the patchbays are already 38-pin ELCO terminated and I have the pin-out. But it would be very usefull to have a standard pin-out info as well. And yes, pics would be usefull too.
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com

pucho812

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2007, 12:14:18 PM »
No need to heatshrink over the crimps just a quick touch of solder.... However When wiring I usually will heatshrink over the ground wire up to the elco pin. Cool I get some photos out to you to show's you what I'm talking bout. As for standard pinouts there are a few variations that are considered standard. I can't find the good PDF that has everything elco on wiring. And unfortunately my drive is not with me so I can't e-mail at the moment. However the link below is a good example of what we use around work. All 90 pin elcos with 24 channels accross each elco

http://www.whirlwindusa.com/dload.html#con
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Ilya

Is there an alternative EDAC crimp tool?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2007, 03:23:42 PM »
Cool. Can't open files though, I'll try downloading them again tomorrow.
Regarding automatic crimping machine, it's almost impossible to find it here, believe me. Anyway, we don't have such an amount of crimping to do to rent a machine. I feel that some EDACs will end up having only 4 pairs of twisted cable. So I need to think if it's worth using 4 or 8 pair cable instead of 12.
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com


 

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