I've bought Rimu

I learned about this program here on the forum.
I've bought it, and it works like a charm. Finished a redesign of my frequency shifter dome filter board in less than one day.
(I've sent the files to Olimex on Saturday - hope to hear from them soon.)

JH.

Wow, seems really affordable...

I've said this many times - One of the best investments I've ever made by far! (And I'm a very picky tight-wad!)

How does it compare to Eagle?

I want to buy a pcb layout program as well and I'm now going through the Eagle tutorial and I have to say that it looks quite complicated to me..

[quote author="radiance"]How does it compare to Eagle?

I want to buy a pcb layout program as well and I'm now going through the Eagle tutorial and I have to say that it looks quite complicated to me..[/quote]

Eagle is complicated. That's why I don't like it. (And the size limitation for an affordable version.)

I used to have a cheap program called Sprint Layout, basically a layout-dedicated drawing program, very easy to learn. I liked the approach, even designed my big PolyKorg Clone pcbs with Sprint (exaple: http://jhaible.heim.at/polykorg/jh_3200_gates_lay_solder.pdf - it looks more like a drawing than a CAD program.)
But Sprint has severe bugs, and to make things worse, wouldn't print anymore after I switched to Windows XP.

Now Rimu seems to be somewhere in between: Layer handling and Gerber data and Design Rule Check as professional as Eagle (from what I've seen so far) - Learning courve and approach as simple as Sprint. This is what I've been looking for without knowing that it exists. :razz:

Ok, nothing is perfect. I ran into the first bug in Rimu already. Seems that grouping elements sometimes doesn't work to 100%. Oh well. But I'm still optimistic about the program.

JH.

[quote author="jhaible"]
Ok, nothing is perfect. I ran into the first big in Rimu already. Seems that grouping elements sometimes doesn't work to 100%. Oh well. But I'm still optimistic about the program.[/quote]

Works fine on my version FWIW. I have never run into bugs with Rimu and I've been using it for about 2years now.

The BEST and most affordable DIY tool for PCB stuff.
Footprint editing is a breeze compared to eagle.

I wish gridlines would save with the project though - would be dead helpful for measuring panel mount pcbs.

-Tom

[quote author="TomWaterman"][quote author="jhaible"]
Ok, nothing is perfect. I ran into the first big in Rimu already. Seems that grouping elements sometimes doesn't work to 100%. Oh well. But I'm still optimistic about the program.[/quote]

Works fine on my version FWIW. I have never run into bugs with Rimu and I've been using it for about 2years now.

-Tom[/quote]

Maybe I made a mistake. But I just checked it again: I select everything (either with the mouse, or with CTRL+A), then perform a "Group Objects". When I try to move the whole block (which should be one group) afterwards, _most_ parts move, but some stay where they are.

Would you allow me to send you the (small) pcb file?
I'd love to see if it happens on your version as well.
(PM me your email adress if that's ok.)

JH.

[quote author="jhaible"]
Now Rimu seems to be somewhere in between: Layer handling and Gerber data and Design Rule Check as professional as Eagle (from what I've seen so far) - Learning courve and approach as simple as Sprint. This is what I've been looking for without knowing that it exists. :razz: [/quote]

Have you tried Sprint Layout 5?

It has added DRC, 2 additional layers, hotkeys (yeah!), ...
and the "test" function now really works with "AutoGround" (AutoMasse in german).

But I can't really judge the program as I've only made 3 projects with it so far (which are basically clones of existing PCBs) and I'm a total beginner regarding PCB designs. I've started with SPrint Layout 4 and then later switched for my current project to version 5 and I really like the improvements.

Have you tried Sprint Layout 5?

Click to expand...

No.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but when I feel left out in the rain (program doesn't work on new computer, program vendor merely shrugs when I ask for a workaround), I rather look for a new program alltogether than wait for an update that may or may not solve my problem.

And I did a lot of veroboard stuff in the mean time, so I didn't look for any updates ...

But I can't really judge the program as I've only made 3 projects with it so far (which are basically clones of existing PCBs) and I'm a total beginner regarding PCB designs. I've started with SPrint Layout 4 and then later switched for my current project to version 5 and I really like the improvements.

Click to expand...

I'm by now means a PCB design expert either. (I guess that's why I don't like Eagle; my colleagues who use it tell me it's easy to use after half a year. But _when_ I make PCBs, they tend to be big. (Prototyping small stuff is always easier on veroboard.) It's the big boards that bring (or don't bring) these programs to their limits. In Sprint (I think I had Version 3), I could not select components and traces on both sides and copy them: the traces and components would be merged in the paste process. No problem with with small designs: You just copy the components and draw the traces by hand. On big boards, you're lost.

JH.

[quote author="jhaible"]
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but when I feel left out in the rain (program doesn't work on new computer, program vendor merely shrugs when I ask for a workaround)[/quote]

Ok, that's not nice. Even when the program is that cheap.

Thanks! I'll be checking Rimu for sure...


EDIT: Did just that and I've to say it's much more intuitive than Eagle... :thumb:

Thenk you JH, I've installed it yesterday, going to try. :thumb:

Love it!
Thought I'd post a little update here after a few moths of using it.
That little bug that made me worry is nothing, really.
I mean, I learned to work around it so easily that I can hardly describe how to avoid it - what I mean is that, once I got a feeling for how the software works, the handling of the reference designators is no problem at all.

So all I can say now, I really love the program - it's the best piece of software I've aquired in a long time.
Made two rather densely populated boards with it, and it works like a charm.

And it's fun to make my projects available for others, much more than with building on veroboard:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau.html


JH.

Hi JH,

I've downloaded the demo version and compared to Eagle it's a breeze.
I was wondering though...do you first make a schematic (using Rimu schematic) and import a netlist or do you start designing the pcb straight away withouth making a schematic first?
I find the tutorial quite understandable but working with a netlist was to much for my newbee brain. I could not make a sensible layout with that example they suplied...Just too many components and traces... :?
Tell me, what's a good way to start?

[quote author="radiance"]Hi JH,

I've downloaded the demo version and compared to Eagle it's a breeze.
I was wondering though...do you first make a schematic (using Rimu schematic) and import a netlist or do you start designing the pcb straight away withouth making a schematic first?
I find the tutorial quite understandable but working with a netlist was to much for my newbee brain. I could not make a sensible layout with that example they suplied...Just too many components and traces... :?
Tell me, what's a good way to start?[/quote]

Can't say what would be a good start, 'cause everyone is telling me I'm doing it the wrong way ... :?

I've never used a netlist.
When I started making pcbs ca. 20 years ago, with enamel paint on bare copper, there wasn't such a thing as a netlist. I made the component placement with pencil on chequered paper, and when everything was ok, I re-drew what would become the copper traces with a permanent marker on the paper. The permanent marker would shine thru, and I could redraw it again from the back side of the sheet. Then I fixed the paper to the raw pcb material with Tesa film at the edges, and drilled all the holes thru the paper into the pcb material from the copper side.
Then, with these holes as orientation, I painted the traces on the copper with enamel paint, using a fine brush. That then was etched in my kitchen.

But you didn't want to hear that. :grin:

What I wanted to say is that over the years I've learned to read my own pcb layouts as well as a schematics drawing. (It would certainly be different if I'd done more digital stuff; but in analogue, how many different opamp pinouts are there, really?)

Today it's not that much different. I simulate parts of the circuit, and obviously have schematics for that; and other parts are sketched in free hand. But I rarely have a finished schematics drawing when I start making a layout (or, in these years when I built on veroboard instead - it's not that different from designing a pcb for me). Some decisions are made during layouting: If there's no place for a couling electrolytic cap, I may just specify a low-offset opamp in the previous stage instead, rather than starting over with new placement or larger board size. :twisted:

There is some risk to simply forget something when you work without netlist. I'm well aware of that. So I force myself to double-check:
I route everything with 12mil (0.31mm) traces first (except GND with 1mm, and +/-15V with 0.7mm). When everything is finished, I sleep over it, and when I can look at the design with a fresh mind again, I'm making all the traces broader, where I can. So the signal traces are all manually increased to 0.5mm (unless I really need 12mil to go thru IC pins etc.), and while doing so, I check the connections again. Found 2 errors in my recent frequency shifter board that way. I hope I found all errors - I'll only know for sure in a few weeks when I get it back from Olimex.

JH.

Thanks :thumb: