Peter Simonsen

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« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2004, 12:46:48 AM »
JPrisus,

I think you have made your point clear now...Just as I suspected all I wanted to know..Carry on with the "magic".. ;-)

btw after 10 hours..listening to the same song over and over..id say you cant hear sh*t anymore..unless you are willing to claim you can breake the laws of nature as well..noo wonder you hear a difference when you raise the vol..

Kind regards

Peter


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« Reply #81 on: September 17, 2004, 01:54:37 AM »
Quote from: "Peter Simonsen"
JPrisus,

I think you have made your point clear now...Just as I suspected all I wanted to know..Carry on with the "magic".. ;-)

btw after 10 hours..listening to the same song over and over..id say you cant hear sh*t anymore..unless you are willing to claim you can breake the laws of nature as well..noo wonder you hear a difference when you raise the vol..


Since this is obviously some sort of sarcastic stab at me and seemingly nothing more, you can listen to some of my work and tell me that I can't hear sh*t after 10 hours of mixng. When you hear it, you'll be hearing plenty of mix decisions that were made after 10+ hours at the desk. How you can tell mewhat i can and cannot hear amazes me. How is that breaking the laws of nature? please explain this. I'm telling you that I work using a variety of monitoring levels because i'm well aware the level affects percieved frequency response, and the increase of input level of my Lucid ADC was noticeable at ANY monitoring level. But I must be some sort of magician, is that it?

Nevermind, sorry... i was born yesterday, i'm a total hack, and I have no freakin idea what I'm doing in front of a console. In fact, i'm gonna go buy a brand new studio based on spec sheets and Hz response curves. And I'll never claim to hear anything that goes against technical data ever again.

If you'd like to continue this, please PM or e-mail me. Hell, give me a ring if it's so important to you. 201-739-2644  :thumb:
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

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« Reply #82 on: September 17, 2004, 02:19:36 AM »
Quote from: "Peter Simonsen"
I think otherwice its a little on the strong side to go out in a public forum and claim PT has very big problems with the math..so much it f**ks up audio..!!!


I'm not the first and certainly won't be the last to say so. This forum IS public, everyone is entitled to share their own opinion, and I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me. You asked me to explain myself and I have. Beyond that, I don't understand any point you might have in provoking this response from me. If you don't hear what i'm hearing, that's fine. No two people hear anything in quite the same way. But to tell me i'm wrong, crazy, or any of the sarcastic comments you've made is just plane immature. Yes, i'm a very opinionated person, and that might rub some people the wrong way, but I've formed my opinions from using these tools in practical situations and judging them based on that and that alone.
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

Peter Simonsen

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« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2004, 03:19:51 AM »
JPrisus,

as i said..I think that you at least to me has said enough for me to know where you´r e comming from and how conduct the fact behind the words you write..*S*  What I was after was the fact that you started to claim the PT math was soo bad it "f**ked up the audio" more than platform XXX, and XXX..NOW you say you cant really hear it..unless you know its there..and you really concentrade on hearing it..and if you didnt know it was there..you where not able to hear it and it really wouldn´t matter..!!! common man what do you mean..??? does it matter or not..??? can you really hear it or not..???

I`m so tired of people going out in public saying sh*t about some product without even have made a clear research about it and gained a least an understanding of what they are saying !!! Last time I had a talk about such a matter..was with a guy who said he could hear the difference among resistors..NOW I took his word on it a sure..as long as he could see which resistor was in the signal path he could tell me how much more "open", "detailed" etc the sound was with one type over the other..When I then put him in a very simple double blind test..he couldn´t hear sh*t..btw a double blind test is not scientific bullsh*t..its just to put one in a normal listening situation where one has not the chance to be wronly coloured by anything else than what you really hear..!!!

Soo Are you willing to back up your claims ??? if soo I´m willing to pay for it..I´ll pay for planetickets, studio time, food, whiskey.. etc..and if you really can hear what you say in a double blind test..its all on me and I´ll tell everyone I was wrong..If you can not hear..then you get to pay for it all..!!! It this a deal..???


[/quote]Since this is obviously some sort of sarcastic stab at me and seemingly nothing more
Quote


I´m sorry but no its not..I´m here to find out if you really can hear it or not, and if you really has been listening without beeing coloured by other inputs other the listening

again sorry if i sound sarcastic to you, or others..not my attention *S*

Kind regards

Peter

Kev

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« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2004, 03:22:04 AM »
I find that one of the problems with these discussions is some get very specific with the language used and yet they no knowledge of the meaning of the words.  Also words are used very differently by different people.

Quote
... and claim PT has very big problems with the math..so much it f**ks up audio..


Unless people use maths as a language to explain this statement the discussion ends up going around and around in circles.

My father is a mathematician and I have been privaledged to witness very deep discussions with people of great knowledge.  It is not possible for me to explain in detail because much of this is well beyond my core knowledge.

If you were project leader and had Gearge M on one side saying 'NO TRANSFORMERS please' and most of this forum saying ' The sound is IN the Iron'.
What do you do ?

People say CORRECT maths.  Years ago the Fairlight people chose to break the rules a little and ended up with what many people thought was a better sounding product.

The Digi people may well have chosen to go with correct maths ... with all the consequences.    I'm not convinced of an inherit problem with Fade or Bounce to disk.
BUT
I have had sessions given to me that took a great deal of effort to repair and get sounding right.  Even though there are no red lights on PT there can still be problems.  

There can also be problems with the way people use hardware mixing desks as well.  The difference is that to own PT is cheap and to own 64 tracks of analog and the effects to go with it is very expensive.  Usually only experienced people play with the later.

Some analog boys will have a go at me here.  They have experience but still don't like PT.  I've spent many a free session with some of them to show some of the fundamentals issues that get overlooked.

Such a difficult subject matter for a forum
and yes it has been tried many times before and will do so long into the future.
PCM will be replaced eventually and we can start all over again.
 :green:
Kev
DIY Factory

Peter Simonsen

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« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2004, 03:37:44 AM »
Kev

Hmmm I agree with you..words and use of word can be a diffecult game to play..I´m the first to say that english is not my very best..I´m a Dane..soo many times when I try to explain myself it may not come across in the way it was meant to be said in the first place . What i try no to talk about is the "math" it self, but more the "claim" at hand which may, or may not be true for all I know.. I´m all for finding the "truth" and in doing soo all I ask is for people to give themself the chance to at least listen without beeing coloured by so many other human inputs..*S* And until that happens I´m really doubtfull..;-)

Kind regards

Peter

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« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2004, 03:38:49 AM »
Kev, you make a great point regarding terminology and i may have been wrong by saying that PT math was *wrong*, when it might actually be *right* and that's what I don't like about it lol.


To Peter... i said I prefer the processing of other platforms, specifically DP4 and Nuendo. Well, it was stated that Nuendo performs crossfades in a different manner than PT. What more do you want dude?  I can hear the difference. If you can't, that doesn't make me any more or less of anything than you are. It just means we hear things differently.

As for saying how i heard it, now saying I don't... You described a scenario for hearing these differences that didn't coincide with the differences I claimed to be hearing in the first place! I spoke of editing a single track during a critical point or juncture of a song, you spoke of editing an entire mix and picking out the edit blindfolded. All that would do is display the skill of the editor as to whether or not I could pick it out!. If you can't understand why i feel there's a dramatic difference between the two, then I can't help you there. I've performed countless hours of editing in PT as well as other programs, and I can hear a difference. I prefer several other systems to PT, and for some reason, you can't accept that.

This is an endless argument and I will be the bigger person and say goodnight.

PS - I prefer the ears test, not the numbers test.
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

Kev

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« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2004, 03:50:46 AM »
Quote from: "JPrisus"
PS - I prefer the ears test, not the numbers test.


Trouble is I can find people that will disagree based on the same statement.  
I don't find the classical boys scrambling for DP4 or Nuendo.
Then again I don't see them using the FADE function either.
I do see them using two channels to get the lower noise floor trick.  Joe M can explain this one better than I.

If I were project leader I would go with CORRECT as I have to explain things to the share holders.

I am still interested in what people think is wrong about the FADE function ... or is it the X-FADE ?
All of the options or just one curve ?


a little OT but ....
I don't think GML has shareholders so George doesn't use transformers.
Just take the time to have a listen to the George interview over at 3daudio
http://www.3daudioinc.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=25
he doesn't care if you buy his pres or not.
a great listen  ...   :green:
Kev
DIY Factory

Peter Simonsen

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« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2004, 04:14:03 AM »
Quote from: "JPrisus"
I spoke of editing a single track during a critical point or juncture of a song, you spoke of editing an entire mix and picking out the edit blindfolded.
PS - I prefer the ears test, not the numbers test.


Sir..please dont put words in my mouth..Noo I did not..I even said an audio file that you may record, and/or play yourself..= an audio file that you know very well..NOT a mix..just a single 2-3 minute audio file..

I too prefer the ears test, and thats what I want you to do.. I even offert to pay for it and if you can not hear it you´ll have to pay.. Its still up my offer..Are we game..??? Dont run away now..!!!

Kind regards

Peter

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« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2004, 04:35:24 AM »
Quote from: "Peter Simonsen"
Quote from: "JPrisus"
I spoke of editing a single track during a critical point or juncture of a song, you spoke of editing an entire mix and picking out the edit blindfolded.
PS - I prefer the ears test, not the numbers test.


Sir..please dont put words in my mouth..Noo I did not..I even said an audio file that you may record, and/or play yourself..= an audio file that you know very well..NOT a mix..just a single 2-3 minute audio file..

I too prefer the ears test, and thats what I want you to do.. I even offert to pay for it and if you can not hear it you´ll have to pay.. Its still up my offer..Are we game..??? Dont run away now..!!!

Kind regards

Peter


Then I do apologize, as I thought you were referring to an edit across an entire song.

I'm not running away from anything. If you want to pay for a test, go right ahead. I'm not tryng to prove anyone wrong nor do I really care about proving my personal opinion. I offered it to the original poster, you seem to have a probllem with it and won't drop it. Personally I really could care less, i'm still gonna wake up tomorrow and mix music for happy clients.
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions


Peter Simonsen

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« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2004, 04:55:03 AM »
Quote from: "JPrisus"

I'm not running away from anything. If you want to pay for a test, go right ahead. I'm not tryng to prove anyone wrong nor do I really care about proving my personal opinion. I offered it to the original poster, you seem to have a probllem with it and won't drop it. Personally I really could care less, i'm still gonna wake up tomorrow and mix music for happy clients.


Then fine I have no problem with other than people  going out on public fora´s claiming stuff that they either can not, or will not stand up to. I gave you an offer that you refuse to take I dont know why..according to yourself..you have anything to win..

You sleep well at night..*GG* all good and dandy..I have made my point clear, and now know where you are comming from, and it s just as I espected..

So Ill let you mix again..happy mixing..and look out for all the "dirty math" :grin:

Thanks for climing in ;-)

Kind regards

Peter

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« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2004, 12:53:26 PM »
Quote from: "Peter Simonsen"


Then fine I have no problem with other than people  going out on public fora´s claiming stuff that they either can not, or will not stand up to. I gave you an offer that you refuse to take I dont know why..according to yourself..you have anything to win..



Correction smartass: people browsing a public forum should expect to read opinions. Just because you don't agree with mine doesn't mean I need to justify it to you or anyone for that matter.
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

dmlandrum

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« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2004, 01:00:13 PM »
Okay, guys, I think this has gone far enough. Let's get back to something productive, okay?

Relax, this is nothing worth getting upset about. World peace does not depend on ProTools math. :green: :thumb:

DIY, DIY
Happy, happy DIY
Darren Landrum

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

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« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2004, 02:13:39 PM »
The voice of reason!

Thanks Consul, we needed that! :roll:
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

Kev

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« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2004, 06:25:04 PM »
yep
thanks Darren
Kev
DIY Factory

Peter Simonsen

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« Reply #95 on: September 18, 2004, 01:19:54 AM »
JPrisus check your PM

Kind regards

Peter


 

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