how noisy is your SSL clone?

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Svart

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
5,134
Location
Atlanta GA USA
Mine are somewhat noisy.. white noise floor at -58db@unity on the makeup (faders @unity) with no signal input, raising the makeup gain also raises the noise floor. without the SSL clones the channels are hovering around -75db@ unity. is this what you guys are seeing? I've tried the normal grounding and other noise reducing ideas with no real change. they are running as inserts to the drum buss and main buss. there is no hint of line noise or hum either, just pure static. units are properly star grounded also.
 
I had 50 Hz hum at about -65dBu but after I fixed that the noise floor is at about -81 dBu (unity). Not the quietest gear i have but it's ok for now.

-58dBu is too high. Something's wrong.

/Anders
 
also, i am running unbalanced because i have no idea how to make a balanced insert... the cables are double shielded(shield around cables as a whole and shield in each individal cable+foil) and only 10 feet long. this happening in two different units, one board from Gustav the other from Swedish Chef, both stuffed at different times with different parts and they are exactly the same in noise, so either it's my wiring or the boards, but i have other things on the same patchbay that aren't this noisy, and others that are MORE noisy( b*hringer crap..) and i tried some direct to insert cables bypassing my wiring with pro-made cables with the same results, maybe 2db less noise but generally the same.

I can live with it for now since i record a lot of rock bands and their volume generally overpowers the noise when the compressors are working but in quiet parts or parts i compress a LOT(a lot of makeup), it's very noticable.
 
That doesn't sound right to me. Mine is dead quiet, or at least as quiet as the noise floor in my TAC Scorpion. There's no hum, no noticable hiss...(though I didn't measure it). I used Gustav's board for mine as well, so I don't think that's it.
 
You said something about running it unbalanced... could be the problem. I haven't built one yet so i'm not gonna get into the circuit, but sometimes hitting a piece of balanced gear with an unbalanced signal can be wierd. Not always, but sometimes. Why do you need it on inserts? Why not run your console outputs into it instead? If your drums are being bussed, why not hit the comp with console buss outputs, then return the comp outputs into a pair of faders? What kind of console are you using for this?

FWIW, SSL 4000E/Gs were/are noisy beasts. They were not pristine or 'hifi' by ANY stretch of the imagination. Neither was older DBX gear, which used very similar circuitry and ideas.
 
It's a heavily modded Alesis X2.. please hold the laughter to a minimum.. :green: my dbx boxes are a little noisy, a little noisier than the SSLs. my few behringer devices are much noisier(another thread coming soon) but i expected these to be much quieter than they are. they are both using toroid trafos with the wiring pointing away like some suggested.. I am using the inserts just because it's easier. the output on some of the busses are running to various things like extra guitar amps/monitors. As i mentioned before, if i disconnect the "tip"/sends to the SSL and just leave the returns i still get the white noise which changes with makeup gain, which leads me to believe that it's self noise of some type. the only changes to the original design was larger lytic caps at the in/out and the use of polypro at the i/o instead of polyester. i wonder if it's some kind of mismatch between impedence?
 
[quote author="Svart"]i wonder if it's some kind of mismatch between impedence?[/quote]

Could very well be. Is the Alesis 'true' +4? I know some pro-sumer gear isn't. Mackie kinda sits somewhere between -10 and +4, for example. I'd bet the inserts are -10, considering they're on those send/return jacks and i doubt Alesis took the time and money to balance the send and return in the middle of every channel. I'd still put the stereo bus comp on the console's outputs and not the inserts. No reason not to.
 
I haven't measured to see if it's "true" +4 but there are selection switches on every channel for +4/-10 but alas i know that isn't worth much without numbers. I didn't think of that, i'll check that when i can get a chance. anyone know an easy way to convert it to +4 if it is indeed -10? I believe that is a very likely answer. thanks!
 
[quote author="Svart"]I haven't measured to see if it's "true" +4 but there are selection switches on every channel for +4/-10 but alas i know that isn't worth much without numbers. I didn't think of that, i'll check that when i can get a chance. anyone know an easy way to convert it to +4 if it is indeed -10? I believe that is a very likely answer. thanks![/quote]

Sure, you could build a rack of transformers and balance all of your insert sends, hit your +4 gear, and then unbalance the signal, and hit the return of your desk. Of course, you could roll around in a patch of poison ivy as well, but I wouldn't suggest it!

j/k... do what I do, screw inserts, interface your outboard gear between the multitrack/DAW output and console input. How are you bussing your drums? I'm assuming you're sending the individual channels to a group bus, then bringing the group bus up on a pair of faders. So put the SSL on the group bus instead of the insert. At least try it. When you really think about it, there's no reason to be using your unbalanced inserts at all. I haven't had a problem avoiding them completely on my desk.
 
good ideas, however, I am using the console with an Mx-2424. the audio path returns to the desk and is then sent to the busses and mixed to 2 track going to the mixdown computer via the master buss, a simple, standard setup. as far as what i use i don't have many channels available@mixdown usually running around 18 tracks. I'll try something here, I can setup where the buss outputs to the compressors and returns back to my bank of aux returns(8 sets) which don't see much use. it'll be later this week before i can try though.

I appreciate all your help! thanks!

:guinness:
 
Yeah, I agree, avoid the inserts. I have unbalanced inserts on my Tac Scorpion, and there's no need to use them. You can always go directly out of your multitrack or busses (if they're balanced) and then back into the balanced inputs of your board. I've always tried to avoid inserts like the plague.
 
[quote author="Svart"]good ideas, however, I am using the console with an Mx-2424. the audio path returns to the desk and is then sent to the busses and mixed to 2 track going to the mixdown computer via the master buss, a simple, standard setup. as far as what i use i don't have many channels available@mixdown usually running around 18 tracks. I'll try something here, I can setup where the buss outputs to the compressors and returns back to my bank of aux returns(8 sets) which don't see much use. it'll be later this week before i can try though.
[/quote]

I don't think you get it yet... no probs using the MX2424, take the output from a channel of the MX2424, run it into whatever piece of gear you want on it, and then send that into a channel of your desk. That way, you bypass the insert and everything stays balanced. By doing this, you're creating your own form of insert in a way.

You don't wanna bring the comps back into aux returns. You say you're putting the SSL across the drum bus. How are you setting up the drum bus? You must have a stereo drum group coming up on a pair of faders, otherwise I can't figure out how you would do this. Instead of putting the SSL on the drum bus inserts, put it on the busses themselves, and return the output of the comp into that SAME pair of faders you were using for the drum group.
 
the drum channels(up to 10 of them) are sent to the drum buss, which for me IS the stereo drum group, i cannot assign mono channels to other mono channels unfortunately, just to stereo bussing.. from there it's switched to the main faders. I have busses for drums, guitars, vocals and other( 4 stereo busses) the SSLs right now are on the drum buss inserts and on the main buss inserts. the guitars have dbx 166 inserted and the other buss has dbx 266 inserted. so all channels are routed to their busses, from there the buss levels are set and assigned to the main faders..

maybe i'm not understanding what you are saying then because I have outputs from the busses, and inputs to the busses but how would i output to the SSLs, then input back into the same buss? I'm not sure how it is in my mixer but i'm under the impression that it would feedback or not make a circuit.. :shock: :?: hmm i guess i just need to play around with it some then..

my mono channels have monitor faders separate from the main faders, but the buss channels do not.

the MX-2424 is connected via 3x elco (console side) to DB-25 (mx-2424) side. I'd have to make all new cables to do what you are suggesting i believe...?
 
[quote author="Svart"]

maybe i'm not understanding what you are saying then because I have outputs from the busses, and inputs to the busses but how would i output to the SSLs, then input back into the same buss? I'm not sure how it is in my mixer but i'm under the impression that it would feedback or not make a circuit.. :shock: :?: hmm i guess i just need to play around with it some then..[/quote]

what you could do in this situation is take the bus balanced outputs, feed the SSL comp from them, and then return the SSL outputs to a pair of unused mono faders and assign them to the stereo bus (be careful not to assign them to the drum bus or it will feedback). If the drum bus still feeds the stereo bus, then you've got a problem, but you should be able to change that on most consoles. Even just plugging something into the bus outs probably breaks the normal to the stereo bus, but i could be wrong about your specific desk.


[quote author="Svart"]the MX-2424 is connected via 3x elco (console side) to DB-25 (mx-2424) side. I'd have to make all new cables to do what you are suggesting i believe...?[/quote]

Ah i see... yeah I was assuming the MX2424 and console were both on a patchbay or something like that. Although for the future, that's something you might wanna consider.
 
hey buddy make sure u let us know if all this balaced/unbalanced jazz fixes the noise problem aiiight (hope it does, good luck!)
 
I'll be sure to update this when i get a chance to try all the combinations! won't be until later this week though.

do you have a similar problem?
 
I thought about it and I think the problem is the +4/-10 issues AND unbalanced together.. i nearly have to turn the makeup ALL the way up to get a useable signal once i start to get into compression when turning the threshold knob down... Which is almost half way. this seems like way too much for both, must be low input.

I found a manual for my mixer online, the group outputs are UNbalanced.. go figure eh?

also one thing that has been running in my head is that I've been reading a lot about op-amp circuits and most say to ground the unused input to lower noise/hum, etc. I left mine floating on both of my boxes.. could that be a source of problems?
 

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