Capacitor Brand Voodoo - Let's clear the air

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Ethan

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The question of which capacitor brand to use for what seems to pop up pretty frequently, so how about we clear the air a little as to the the "reasons" why one uses a particular brand over the other. No heresay, just good old honesty, however humbling that may be...

I'll start:
I mostly use Xicon electrolytics, for PS filter caps as well as for signal 'lytic caps.
REASON: I see most modern gear manufacturers doing the same.

Panasonics for monolithic ceramics.
REASON: I see most modern gear manufacturers doing the same.

Vishay-Roederstein for polypropylene caps.
REASON: Because Wima's aren't readily in stock at mouser.

Who's next?

-Ethan
 
I guess you had this in mind for some time and my previous posting was the trigger, right ? :wink:

Nice one, could become interesting. :thumb:

I'll add why I'm looking for those Elna Stargets:
it's just based on what I've read here. Obviously nothing beats trying out yourself, but I could use this SSL asap so in it's first incarnation it'll be based on Lab-recommendation.

Bye,

Peter
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]I only use capacitors made of two plates separated by a dielectric. They sound awesome![/quote]

Man, I knew someone would feel compelled to say that... :wink:
 
For electros I tend to stay away from Xicon and IC brands. I don't like SMDs. Alot of an electros sound or lack of sound is due to price IMO. I have tested >20year old caps that were still good. Fo new ones things that make a difference at the same value ratings

Mass > tend to be better
dia vs H Seems to affect ESR
Seal at the end of the body Life time
cost

105C vs 85C does not seem to make a differece alot of times Sometimes I wonder if it just made up by some brands?

The chemisty is what you pay for I believe. I tend to like USA and Japan made electros. I think the chemisty and constuction are what sets the sound

The above is from testing electros(removed and installed) over many years (about 20) For repair of all kinds of stuff. Lots and lots of caps!

Elna,rubycon,nichicon,panasonic,mallory,sprague,CDE

I have not tried black gates. The writeups I can find read more like marketing than science to me.

Films

again size/mass I have worked on a newer tube guitar amp that the two output films to the grid of the output tubes would fail when was played loud. I removed them and tested them on a LC102 the leakage voltage can be adjusted in 1 volt steps to 999V the caps would fail as the voltage went up. I noted the caps were very small for the cap size and voltage rating. The orange drops I use to replace them were about 3 time bigger for the same value and film type. I guess they used a thinner/cheaper film to make the caps.

I think with caps you get what you pay for (until the snake oil level)
 
Well, i choose caps by studying the manufacturers datasheets and taking what is best suited for a particular application.

an example: is going for lowest ESR electrolytic for PSU filtering always the best way ? - depends on application. The lower the ESR the higher current pulse will the cap take, but will your rectifier feel comfortable with the current surge ? Very low ESR may lead to max current pulse specs for a given tube rectifier being exceeded thus seriously shortening it's life. Same goes for SS rectifiers.

Caps for frequency response shaping circuits - tolerance, stability, noninductive, tempcoeff. IMHO dielectric material is really not as important as we are led to believe.

Has anyone ever seen a manufacturer promising "clearer highs and tighter low end" in their marketing material ? Except ofcourse those who target the audiophile market specifically.

Admin's reasons are very rational. Same reasoning applies to stock market: buy whatever the big guys are buying :razz:
 
No heresay, just good old honesty
I choose them for the way they look:
roe.jpg

frako.jpg
 
I like to use the blue philips electrolytics (as seen here). Reason? I know they were good in the old days - I have a lot of old working equipment made with those caps. I just hope they are still good...

When I need small radial electrolytics I often use Panasonics (or Philips). They don't cost a lot, and I think the quality is ok.

When I need plastic caps, I just use what I have, or can get where I order the other parts. I use everything from old Russian surplus caps to new Wima/Rifa etc. I have never found any bad caps so far...

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen
 
Just wondering: Which kind of WIMAs do people here like? There is quite a difference between their MKS and their FKP caps...

;Matthias
 
I do use the MIT PPMFX style Multicap in the signal path. The idea of their construction technique in paralleling caps to get the final value makes sense to me (lower ESR and inductance) also a <.1% DF. They are not much more expensive than the Panasonics if you buy quantity direct from MIT. For the hi current low Z coupling, I use Solen because they are cheaper than anything else in an axial lead. In all the film caps though, I've never heard one really sound bad. Just use good stuff.

RonL
 
We need to divide up the usage into catagories such as:

Vacuum Tube Gear:
B+ supply:both lytic and poly/ceramic bypass
Cathode bypass caps
Plate to grid caps
Tone shaping caps
Output caps

Transistor Gear:
Pwr Supply caps:lytic and bypass
Emitter bypass caps
Coupling caps
Tone shaping caps
Output caps

I get really confused when someone says "I use only "Brand X polys".
Ok, but for what!
:?
 
[quote author="nacho459"]What about Orange Drops!? They ain't the most transparent but they have cool tone! :guinness:[/quote]

What are orange drops? Are these mylar caps that look like candies? Comes in green, orange and red colors???
 
Chris

For tube guitar amps. If I don't want to add anything polypro. For a little more warmth PET for the small DA, higher voltage for more DA because of the film thickness. I tend to like PETs better than electros as cathode bypass caps in the preamps section 1uf to 10uf(to taste) CDE makes a nice 10uf PET that does not cost alot. I like wound PETs for the output tube grids The wound seems to sound better than the stacked film

Tone stacks and treble leak caps. Cheap ceramic disks sometimes or PETs or polypro. A marhall is not a marshall without a ceramic treble cap sometimes the greater the voltage delta across a ceramic the more the piezo effect and DA effect with a time delay.

Electros for the PS 1.5ohms ESR per 20uf or better at 450VDC.
 
Cool Gus!
Whats a PET ?

Here are some notes I have been collecting from another forum:
Has anyone tried the new cornell dublilier metallized polypropylene? Up to 60uF@ 1200Vdc and 120uF @1000Vdc.
I some 100uF caps coming from ASC in their new blue line. They stated me 2.5"x5.88", so they are big uns.
How about the UNLYTIC brand? --keto
Unlytics and ASCs take care of all my B+ needs.

Oil caps are always an option although size is an issue.
Reference Audio Mods is now selling their version of replacement BlackGates from Rubycon. See their website: www.referenceaudiomods.com
Jensen also has its 4 pole caps, but they are limited to 385V.
Uniltyic also sells some great caps but are large like the oil caps.
Best of luck,

My understanding is Rubycon, Nichicon, Chemicon, and Black Gate are all the some company. One of those Japanese congomerates. If there's a Rubycon replacement, it may be the same thing or very close to it.

Black Gate is made by Jelmax -
 
I'll chime in. I can only really comment on audio coupling as thats about the level of my sophistication with this stuff so far as perceiving differences. I like the BC caps for a growly midrange. They are definitely "dull" sounding, which I love. Im not a big fan of bright sounding stuff, which is why I dont care to use panasonic FC caps too much. They are great caps for brightening dark sounding stuff though, I like them in DBX gear, it helps out the speed on the high end a lot. Ive got black gates in an 1176 but Im still not sure what those things sound like yet, need more time with them. I really dig the nichicon UPW caps in the brown can, they've got a really mild and mellow thing about them that I really like. I dont much like those blue xicon caps, I used to use them in fuxx boxes and didnt even like them there, always kind of got this "cardboard" imaging when I used them.

I think when evaluating comments like these, and you could really extend this to any discussion about sound, its really important to keep in perspective the taste of the person whose comments you are evaluating. If every record sounded like black sabbath Paranoid, Id be pretty happy, thats the sound I like. For someone looking for a more modern sound out of their vintage gear, you'd probably fare well chosing caps that I dont like, dig?

dave
 
[quote author="owel"][quote author="nacho459"]What about Orange Drops!? They ain't the most transparent but they have cool tone! :guinness:[/quote]

What are orange drops? Are these mylar caps that look like candies? Comes in green, orange and red colors???[/quote]

These are orange drops!

ORANGEDROP.gif


Polypropylene caps made by Sprague, and they aren't very HiFi. They are really popular with guitar amp techs and DIYers, I like them, but many people in the George Masenburg school don't like them cause they can be really colorful. I'm into the old carbon-comp resistor, really colorful tube gear. Mainly they're used to filter out DC coming off the plates.
 
Slight tangent here... Not trying to hijack the thread, but...

Hey Dave, that's a good benchmark for sound... Although honestly, I think their first album was really their best sounding album, although Paranoid and Master of Reality had more classic songs.

The first album was tracked on a couple of 1" 4-tracks in a day, then mixed in another day, at Regent Sound in London. That record sounds so big to me... real "present" guitar sound, perfect drum sound--it sounds like an actual drum kit!--with lots of "space" in the recording as well to let the elements stand out. I'd love to know more about how it was recorded and what they used, but available info is scarce.

Basics for Paranoid were tracked on the 4-banger at Regent then transferred to 16 for overdubs at Island Studios. Details here:
URL

I guess we could re-open the Black Sabbath thread over on the Brewery if there's enough interest...

But, getting back on topic: when you say "BC" caps, could you be more specific? I was able to find out that this refers to Beyschlag-Centralab, but they make more than one series of cap.

Nacho: Me like Orange Drops. Look like candy. I have piles of them from my days as a guitar amp tech. They were my "standard issue" film cap most of the time.
 
dave-

digikey carries a few, the asm021 and aht118 Ive been using a lot and really dig them. They dont ruin the vintage vibe of old stuff at all. I tried the aml138 in a 1272 and liked it also although Ive only tried it in that one circuit so its hard to judge...

The first sabbath record sounds insane, but the second sells it for me. Its just the rubbery bass sound on the second record that is so completely brilliant and the whole record just sort of sits around the bass in a really special way. I had heard stories from a good source about them recording in a barn...

dave
 
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