DIY Neve 2254/64?
« on: September 18, 2004, 03:24:56 PM »
just a thought, since Chandler was able to clone the 2254 and keep the MSRP pretty low, seems like it would be a fun and possibly easy DIY project. any thoughts?
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions


soundguy

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2004, 04:15:07 PM »
its in the works and seemingly not easy at all.

do a search, theres lots of info here.

dave

chips are good with dip...

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2004, 04:29:18 PM »
ah just found the thread... jeeze, another clone with the original name and logo on it, haha... although pretty sweet looking anyhow.

wonder how Wade kept the price of his LTD-2 so low... granted it's only one channel. He also kept in a single rack space. They sound great too!

Dave, J.Hall mentioned to me that you prefer the sound of your SSL clone to the C2... i was wondeirng if you could elaborate a little if you don't mind. I know the FXG384 sounds pretty different from the C2, and it's damn near impossible to compare the Quad bus comp since you're also hearing the conditon/maintenance of the desk as well (or lack thereof)... just wondering on the differences that you've found. Thanks!
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

soundguy

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2004, 04:40:47 PM »
wade probably kept the cost of the ltd-2 low by ass reaming profit on the TG1 which features $.89 plastic lorlin switches and a board with no solder mask for the bargain basement price of $4k.  There are nice components also, of course, but if there was any competition with that design, he'd never get that price.  Crazy profit on that box.  Does sound good though.

I dont have a real good answer, Ive tried C2's and just didnt like them.  I built the Gssl and use it all the time.  Ive never compared the two side by side or anything like that, Ive just never felt compelled to leave a c2 patched after auditioning it, its pretty stiff sounding for me.  Im sure its good on something, I just never bothered too much to figure out what.  

dave

chips are good with dip...

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2004, 07:51:40 PM »
Quote from: "soundguy"


I dont have a real good answer, Ive tried C2's and just didnt like them.  I built the Gssl and use it all the time.  Ive never compared the two side by side or anything like that, Ive just never felt compelled to leave a c2 patched after auditioning it, its pretty stiff sounding for me.  Im sure its good on something, I just never bothered too much to figure out what.  

dave


How about we do a blind test, if you can pick out the GSSL from the C2 and 384 i'll cover the travel costs, if not, you foot the bill... j/k, had to say it... :cool:

I've found the 384 to sound a little darker and tighter on the bottom when compared to the C2, and I can see how 'stiff' can be used to describe the C2 as well. 384 was nicer on drums, C2 nicer on the stereo bus in that particular situation. 'Crush' is nice on a drum sub.  Only used the Quad comp once and it was sucky on the mixbus, the "give up" was way more than the "get" if that makes any sense. J.Hall gave me the idea of using a variable HPF in the sidechain of my clone to retain some bottom on the mixbus, seems like a great idea.
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2004, 07:55:01 PM »
BTW, the EMI comp/limiter would be a fun clone to spec out... curious to see how much in parts goes into the damn thing!
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions

soundguy

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2004, 09:19:41 PM »
Ive only used one real 384 and dark is definitley the word, I wish I could get my gssl that way.  I think there is a big enough difference between the gssl I built and the smart C2 I heard to at least pick them different.  Im not much of a fan of integrated circuits and dont use them much for anything so Im not really the best judge anyway.  When I need something to smear, I'll use my Gssl, its one of very few limiters I have that use IC's and I like it for that.

As for the TG-1, the parts count is ridiculous, I have one and nearly vomited when I saw what was inside it.  That box could be 1/2 the price and still turn some profit.  The transformers are carnhill, which hes using in everything, so there is some discount on bulk.  The meters are expensive, period.  The gain switch is an elma, but again, bulk purchase for the rest of the line, so they are affordable for him.  sh*tty plastic knobs.  Horrifying lorlin cheap switches for two functions, I think the release and maybe the comp/limit select, and a really sh*tty feeling carbon pot for the threshold.  The boards honestly look like they were made at PCB express, I swear.  It looks like the original artwork from the EMI overlay Ive seen for the original PCB's.  The wiring is very nice and the chasis just seems like a bad idea to me, but thats probably more of my "I would have done it differently" bias more than anything else, its just like the older neve console rails.  It sort of feels solid, Id sort of feel afriad to bring it on the road.  Its ludicrously overpriced, there's no way it costs much more to make than the 2254 copy, which with its extra transformer (if he's building it stock) probably offsets the cost of the more expensive meter in the tg-1 a little bit.  He isnt selling pairs of 2254's for $4k, its really disgusting that that is the price on the tg-1.  The person to offer that limiter to the marketplace for half the price with better parts (which IMO, if you are tooling up 100 units is so absurdly doable) is going to kick serious ass.  Ive thought about it but I dont have enough time for my career right now, let alone a hobby...

Even at $4k, its a really good sounding box, its just a shame its priced where it is.  Voodoo.  silly.

dave

chips are good with dip...

Bear

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2004, 11:51:30 PM »
So how possible is it to kludge together a stupidly cheap EMI/TG-1-ish thing as a DIY?  What kind of parts cost would we be talking?

Bear

soundguy

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2004, 12:57:06 AM »
parts on the board?  a few bucks.  two input transformers, two output transformers, switches.  If it doesnt need to look pretty I bet you could build for under $400 channel.

dave

chips are good with dip...

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2004, 02:57:07 AM »
That's nuts... let's do it!!!!

I say we make it look pretty, cause lord knows if it sounds the same yet looks smarter we'll be rich in no time... :green:
--
J.P. Sheganoski
Recording/Mixing Engineer
www.RisusProductions.com
www.Purevolume.com/risusproductions


soundguy

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2004, 03:05:24 AM »
ok cool, just cough up a schematic and let me know what the beta is on the matched transistors and we are good to go...

you do have a schematic, right?

chortle chortle...

dave

chips are good with dip...

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2004, 03:06:21 AM »
I completely agree Dave - build quality is aweful
its sacriledge compared to the original EMI TG stuff which had better build quality than Neve in many ways.
some of the stuff I have seen in this forum completely puts it to shame

has anyone got a schematic for the TG - I havent seen one posted yet. I assume its a diode bridge device like Neve and Pye.
also we will need transformer info
have you got anything on this Dave? or be willing to share

DIY Neve 2254/64?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2004, 03:13:37 AM »
I dont think the 2254 and 33609 are that difficult to build. one of my first projects DIY was a stereo 2254 clone. I reversed engineered it for a Neve
worked with no great dramas
a little on the noisy side though
the problems with these is that the diodes in the diode bridge have to be very closely matched to stop distortion and noise. this is a pain to do well.
Also I think the knee of the diodes has to be the same aswell.
I think there might be some parts on the market that are worth looking into
1n4153 (if I remember) is a close tolerance version of the 1n4148
would be better with these parts
but also I have seen in some circuits (Moog and others) a chip made in the 70s which was 4 matched signal diodes 1n4148
I will hunt around to see if I can find the part number.if we could use this chip for the diode bridge it would be a revelation.
problem is it is probably very rare now
can anyone think of a modern equivalent (4 matched signal diodes in a DIL/DIP package?


 

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