techniques for real flanging on DAW?

Has anyone successfully attempted to do flanging on a DAW without plugins or real tape? Not the pitch-bendy stuff--I'm talking the real TearsForFears'HeadOverHeelsDrumBreak-style" through-zero flanging that's so thick that you can almost cut it with a knife!

This is the rare time I miss my ancient VCR that literally exploded a couple years ago. It was the very first production VHS-HiFi deck, the JVC HR-D725. You could record audio on it without a video signal! It had a pot to select between the Hi-Fi and linear stereo audio tracks! It had a manual tracking knob! I discovered that if you mix in some of the linear track with the Hi-Fi audio, you can get a real flanging effect by subtly rocking the tracking control back and forth! It worked by slowing and speeding the linear tracks while the FM Hi-Fi signal remained locked in time. Oh well.. it was fun while it lasted.

I tried a pitch shifter I could control with an envelope, but it's not the right effect. I'm thinking I need some sort of plugin that "bends the sample rate" (stretches and compresses the pitch and time) with an envelope. I use SONAR, but suggestions for any DAW are welcome. I'd rather do something locked into the timeline if at all possible rather than process samples offline.

Thanks!

--Bob

wouldnt you just do it with 2 DAWS? I knew a guy that would do it with 2 DAT machines and it was thick. getting 1 DAW to think in 2 time schemes never works.

I haven't used Sonar in a while. You may be able to do something like this with Reaper. It has a play speed envelope which appears to do dynamic resampling. If you are careful with the envelope so that you don't introduce an overall time stretch/squeeze it might work. You'd have to render the track(s) you want to flange through the pitch envelope and then import them into another project with a normal copy of the tracks.

You can try Reaper for free. I believe Analag was the first to bring up Reaper on our Fora. Cool app... Download the pdf user guide--it has an example of how to set up play speed.

Reaper

A P

I believe it was called "Reel" flanging ?

Name comes from dragging hand on outside edge of tape reel to vary delay between two machines.

I have speculated that some of the really (reely?) "hairy" flanging sounds are due to incomplete cancellation caused by mistracking of HF phase shift and frequency response between sundry magnetic tape paths.

To really emulate the effect you may want to introduce intentional phase and amplitude response errors (in one not both sources). Imperfect audio paths contributed to, more than hurt the final result. IMO

JR

[quote author="JohnRoberts"]I believe it was called "Reel" flanging ?

Name comes from dragging hand on outside edge of tape reel to vary delay between two machines.
[/quote]

I think there's some debate as to where the term flanging came from.

I shared my belief... about the name and that irregularities in tape machine response characteristics contributed to the classic sound.

What is your belief?

JR

I've flanged before using a regular computer sound card (no clock) paired with my Delta (clock)

[quote author="JohnRoberts"]I shared my belief... about the name and that irregularities in tape machine response characteristics contributed to the classic sound.

What is your belief?

JR[/quote]

not trying to start a fight !!!

I don't really have a belief - and I agree about the finger-on-flange technique.

There's a story about Lennon calling ADT "double-bifurcated sploshing flange" in 1966, that's a year before itchycoo park .

There's another story about it being invented by the BBC for the Goons. Flange was a standard silly word that the goons used (which is probably where Lennon picked it up).

Where the truth lies - I don't know.

I believe , that everything is exactly how it should be , and the proof is
, that it is

or was it the 70's who did that pop tune
" I believe there's nothing stronger than our Love " ?

Also flanging & fun both [ among other words ] start with an " F " ,
no coincidence there

One BBD and static phase shift networks in the feedback path I believe!

Have you heard the waves metaflanger? It's got a thru-zero preset.

I never liked any plugin flangers/choruses.
I think thats where the limitation of 44.1 khz really shows.
However, having one output with slightly varying digital clock can be an interesting idea.
Now, how do we implement clock LFO?
:shock:

Man all you need is that new pro tools plug in by digidesign that acutally looks like a reel of tape. :green:

I know I'm repeating myself, but if the two audio sources being summed and differeced are identical. the cancellation is too abrupt, complete, and IMO uninteresting.

YMMV

JR

There's a story about Lennon calling ADT "double-bifurcated sploshing flange" in 1966, that's a year before itchycoo park .

There's another story about it being invented by the BBC for the Goons. Flange was a standard silly word that the goons used (which is probably where Lennon picked it up).

Where the truth lies - I don't know.

Click to expand...

I believe the 'bifurcated' comment came from George Martin to John Lennon as a tongue-in-cheek way of explaining how ADT was done. John was apparently quite incapable of understanding anything technical, and so Martin's comment was meant to simply shut him up.

According "Recording The Beatles" Ken Townsend, one of the technical engineers at Abbey Road came up with the idea of how to work a Studer J37 and a mono BTR2 tape machine together to create the effect of double tracking, though it was originally a static effect (didn't modulate) meant to make it sound like two takes of the same thing (Artificial Double Tracking).

A variation of this effect would be to use your thumb to put varying pressure on the flange of the secondary (effect) tape machine, and the subsequent modulation, when layered back against the original track created a type of effect that we have come to know as flanging.

[quote author="stickjam"]Has anyone successfully attempted to do flanging on a DAW without plugins or real tape? Not the pitch-bendy stuff--I'm talking the real TearsForFears'HeadOverHeelsDrumBreak-style" through-zero flanging that's so thick that you can almost cut it with a knife!
--Bob[/quote]

don't know the real answer to the question, because that varies from artist to artist..... I am a DAW artist and producer using outboard processing...but I rarely use software based flanging. In fact, I've never been satisfied with plugin or Logic based flangers. My current technique involves exporting to analog or Eventide virtual analog.

Having been raised on psychedelic rock from the 1960s and beyond... I'm kind of particular. Yet it's always a taste isn't it?

I don't want to sound exactly like old recordings, yet they are in some way ingrained into my memory from my earliest years (39 now).

I use guitar FX pedals built on existing designs using my own parts choices and when I want a part to be super-clear I use the Eventide DSP.

Just my tools and fleeting ideas at the moment, no recommendations for how many miles your car may or may not get on 'fossil fuels' or even for your magnetically suspended train.

Also it should be noted that I do not cater to producing bands that want "THAT SOUND". whatever that should be.

-Jay