When you sell DIY
- Thread starter Gustav
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Yes, this is an increasing problem :?
What disturbs me most is that it ultimately could damage the perception of the Gyraf brand, if too many half-working shoveled-together units are sold as genuine Gyraf's - giving us a bad reputation in the long term..
This is why it's very important to us, that you do not mark your front panels with "Gyraf Audio" or our Gyraffe-at-the-window logo...
Jakob E.
What disturbs me most is that it ultimately could damage the perception of the Gyraf brand, if too many half-working shoveled-together units are sold as genuine Gyraf's - giving us a bad reputation in the long term..
This is why it's very important to us, that you do not mark your front panels with "Gyraf Audio" or our Gyraffe-at-the-window logo...
Jakob E.
okgb
Well-known member
perhaps back to the idea of screening warnings on the boards , so at
the very least the response can be to check for authenticity or cloning
Gyraf , handsigned serial # , or ?
There is nothing that indicates you repair or service though , so in this
case i think they're just trying to see if they can slide it by you , no
mention of payment and you'd think they'd go to the seller [ Wonder who
that was ? unless they have pointed your way and ran ]
the very least the response can be to check for authenticity or cloning
Gyraf , handsigned serial # , or ?
There is nothing that indicates you repair or service though , so in this
case i think they're just trying to see if they can slide it by you , no
mention of payment and you'd think they'd go to the seller [ Wonder who
that was ? unless they have pointed your way and ran ]
vertiges
Well-known member
Gustav,
If I've well understood, that email was addressed to you and not to Jakob right ? So probably, that guy knows that it is a diy-project based on a Gyraf design and not a genuine Gyraf (= build and sold by Gyraf) ?
It seems the design is not in cause here but the building.
But maybe he has discovered that after buying it... which would be very bad ! It's strange, he should have asked for a refund..
Maybe Malkjos needs help for repairing one of its compressor ! :green:
eD)))
If I've well understood, that email was addressed to you and not to Jakob right ? So probably, that guy knows that it is a diy-project based on a Gyraf design and not a genuine Gyraf (= build and sold by Gyraf) ?
It seems the design is not in cause here but the building.
But maybe he has discovered that after buying it... which would be very bad ! It's strange, he should have asked for a refund..
Maybe Malkjos needs help for repairing one of its compressor ! :green:
eD)))
Ptownkid
Well-known member
Have you seen a picture of said unit?
lolo-m
Well-known member
[quote author="gyraf"]Yes, this is an increasing problem :?
What disturbs me most is that it ultimately could damage the perception of the Gyraf brand[/quote]
I hope mine won't... I won't sell it anyway but the Gyraf brand appears on the front plate and it was only the way I found to say "thank you"...
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26153&highlight=
Thank you Jakob to make this be possible... :thumb:
Maybe we shouldn't name them G1176, but... 1176 Clone...
What disturbs me most is that it ultimately could damage the perception of the Gyraf brand[/quote]
I hope mine won't... I won't sell it anyway but the Gyraf brand appears on the front plate and it was only the way I found to say "thank you"...
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26153&highlight=
Thank you Jakob to make this be possible... :thumb:
Maybe we shouldn't name them G1176, but... 1176 Clone...
kazper
Well-known member
I'm sure it has came up before as indicated by OKGB, But I'm all for the PCB made for DIY USE on the PCB.
About the only thing you could do Gustav is point him here and say he can fix it with help from the board, but first look through the specific projects thread.
About the only thing you could do Gustav is point him here and say he can fix it with help from the board, but first look through the specific projects thread.
okgb
Well-known member
I agree that [ or anything ] to distingiush it from Gyraf products , and
perhaps gyraf including some " seal of approval " , maybe known only
to him , on his boards .
the arguement before was that people could regerber without it , but
it is a start and maybe some woldn't know or bother to make new ones
perhaps gyraf including some " seal of approval " , maybe known only
to him , on his boards .
the arguement before was that people could regerber without it , but
it is a start and maybe some woldn't know or bother to make new ones
lofi
Well-known member
our boards should be different to the commercial boards. personally i would like to see all our boards from all producers emblazened with
'Not For Profit'
judging by the numbers that people buy of these boards it seems obvious some are selling. all of the regulars will be building and selling items at cost plus labour, so no profit there (its a fun hobby, but bloody expensive at times) but some of the unscrupulous out there will try to make money, cut 'n' run merchants as it were. this would help to distinguish between you guys who can build stuff in a night and the idiots who half heartedly build stuff with the idea of a quick buck.
Iain
'Not For Profit'
judging by the numbers that people buy of these boards it seems obvious some are selling. all of the regulars will be building and selling items at cost plus labour, so no profit there (its a fun hobby, but bloody expensive at times) but some of the unscrupulous out there will try to make money, cut 'n' run merchants as it were. this would help to distinguish between you guys who can build stuff in a night and the idiots who half heartedly build stuff with the idea of a quick buck.
Iain
[quote author="lofi"]our boards should be different to the commercial boards. personally i would like to see all our boards from all producers emblazened with
'Not For Profit'
Iain[/quote]
Not about profit, but about the brand image of Gyraf being confused and sullied by these homebrew projects.
I think a good starting point would be to remove 'Gyraf Audio' from the title blocks on the schematics, Jakob...
'Not For Profit'
Iain[/quote]
Not about profit, but about the brand image of Gyraf being confused and sullied by these homebrew projects.
I think a good starting point would be to remove 'Gyraf Audio' from the title blocks on the schematics, Jakob...
Mbira
Well-known member
I like the idea of a "not for profit" type thing on the artwork.
I think that it's bad practice to put ANYBODY's brand name on a DIY unit, whether you're selling it or not. Defunct company or not. It can cause the existing business problems (as described above), and it's lying to your studio clients and potential clients as well as gear buyers. It's misrepresentation... no matter how you look at it.
solder_city
Well-known member
i agree, i cringe when i see 'teletronix' or 'pultec' or 'ssl' brand names on peoples diy projects here, no matter how nicely done. it just seems wrong.
lofi
Well-known member
i fully agree with that, creating the aesthetics of the original is one thing, even the names (1176, 33609 etc) but to try and make the facia look like the original down to brand name...
its like buying dodgy jeans of a back street market IMO.
still, its all personal preference if your keeping them in your rack, but when you decide to sell its different.
think we need an agreement on the pcbs. most of you guys 'DIY' is above the professional items offered by manufacturers. i wouldn't like to see diy only on the boards as it demeans your abilitys hence the Not for Profit. i would also like them to state 'PCB manufactured by ...' and ''with permission of ...' if needed.
anything that makes it harder for people to pass of their work as somebody elses. bastards.
Iain
its like buying dodgy jeans of a back street market IMO.
still, its all personal preference if your keeping them in your rack, but when you decide to sell its different.
think we need an agreement on the pcbs. most of you guys 'DIY' is above the professional items offered by manufacturers. i wouldn't like to see diy only on the boards as it demeans your abilitys hence the Not for Profit. i would also like them to state 'PCB manufactured by ...' and ''with permission of ...' if needed.
anything that makes it harder for people to pass of their work as somebody elses. bastards.
Iain
okgb
Well-known member
Agreed , we all know what they are
I have however added " custom made by GKB Audio "
on mine , which may " devalue it " comercially but lets
me qualify other words , so
it's like a sleeper hotrod , you know if it works thats all that matters
I have found almost no matter how good my d.i.y. is , I can't charge extra
for it cause no one wants to pay more for quality ,
[ that doesn't have 10,000 of ad hype behind it ] so it ends up being
as much for my personal satisfaction [ and hopefully enhances my
reputation though better sounding recordings ]
So " not for profit " on the boards works for me .
I have however added " custom made by GKB Audio "
on mine , which may " devalue it " comercially but lets
me qualify other words , so
it's like a sleeper hotrod , you know if it works thats all that matters
I have found almost no matter how good my d.i.y. is , I can't charge extra
for it cause no one wants to pay more for quality ,
[ that doesn't have 10,000 of ad hype behind it ] so it ends up being
as much for my personal satisfaction [ and hopefully enhances my
reputation though better sounding recordings ]
So " not for profit " on the boards works for me .
Ptownkid
Well-known member
[quote author="drpat"]I think that it's bad practice to put ANYBODY's brand name on a DIY unit, whether you're selling it or not. Defunct company or not. It can cause the existing business problems (as described above), and it's lying to your studio clients and potential clients as well as gear buyers. It's misrepresentation... no matter how you look at it.[/quote]
Totally agreed
Totally agreed
guitarbill55
Well-known member
[quote author="drpat"]I think that it's bad practice to put ANYBODY's brand name on a DIY unit, whether you're selling it or not. Defunct company or not. It can cause the existing business problems (as described above), and it's lying to your studio clients and potential clients as well as gear buyers. It's misrepresentation... no matter how you look at it.[/quote]
Yeah guys, this is why when I make amps, comps and whatever I add my own improvements and powdercoat 'em all bright yellow and put my own original names and silk screens on 'em ..........all point to point because that's just what I dig.
gb
Yeah guys, this is why when I make amps, comps and whatever I add my own improvements and powdercoat 'em all bright yellow and put my own original names and silk screens on 'em ..........all point to point because that's just what I dig.
gb
This should be a pretty interesting topic especially for this community, since we are somewhat better informed than the population at large about what goes on under the hood, while there may be some temptation to think we know more than we do.
First a little discussion about brands and brand management. This is an extension of the old "you can't judge a book by it's cover", while we in fact routinely can and do. If we recognize and like other books we've read from the same author, that is effectively a brand that we will trust to deliver a consistent product, until we are disappointed by that brand. For unknown authors (brands) we may judge the book by the cleverness of cover artwork, reviews and touts from other authors.
In the larger markets there are companies who have been obscenely successful mimicking the look and feature set of established category leading products. This works as a business model as long as you stay on the right side of the legal line regarding IP, because product is delivered very cost effectively, with a proven feature set, and some degree of "borrowed" good will.
Attempting to do this with low volume esoteric products has several pitfalls. If the customer is buying an XYZ so he can brag about owning a XYZ, it doesn't matter if you used gold solder inside, it won't satisfy that need unless you dishonestly masquerade as someone you're not.
If some esoteric product has established a following because of what it does uniquely, you can't do it better and still be the same. To be "the same but better" requires establishing yourself as a different brand and merchandising your difference. Advertising and promotion are unfortunate costs to establish any brand, not to mention having a track record which takes time.
A simple low volume knock off of a proven design without some merchandising reason to exist isn't likely to be valued very highly. People always want to save money but aren't likely to think down from the market price of the very expensive esoteric model, but often up from more mundane generic solutions.
If you want to build stuff for money, try to make something unique that is your own creation.. It can stand on the shoulders of those before you, but take it to another level. Good for the money doesn't generally work in the high end.... and there's already very effective copy cats in the low end.
JR
First a little discussion about brands and brand management. This is an extension of the old "you can't judge a book by it's cover", while we in fact routinely can and do. If we recognize and like other books we've read from the same author, that is effectively a brand that we will trust to deliver a consistent product, until we are disappointed by that brand. For unknown authors (brands) we may judge the book by the cleverness of cover artwork, reviews and touts from other authors.
In the larger markets there are companies who have been obscenely successful mimicking the look and feature set of established category leading products. This works as a business model as long as you stay on the right side of the legal line regarding IP, because product is delivered very cost effectively, with a proven feature set, and some degree of "borrowed" good will.
Attempting to do this with low volume esoteric products has several pitfalls. If the customer is buying an XYZ so he can brag about owning a XYZ, it doesn't matter if you used gold solder inside, it won't satisfy that need unless you dishonestly masquerade as someone you're not.
If some esoteric product has established a following because of what it does uniquely, you can't do it better and still be the same. To be "the same but better" requires establishing yourself as a different brand and merchandising your difference. Advertising and promotion are unfortunate costs to establish any brand, not to mention having a track record which takes time.
A simple low volume knock off of a proven design without some merchandising reason to exist isn't likely to be valued very highly. People always want to save money but aren't likely to think down from the market price of the very expensive esoteric model, but often up from more mundane generic solutions.
If you want to build stuff for money, try to make something unique that is your own creation.. It can stand on the shoulders of those before you, but take it to another level. Good for the money doesn't generally work in the high end.... and there's already very effective copy cats in the low end.
JR
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