SSL does it again
- Thread starter pucho812
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
vertiges
Well-known member
For $ 25,995 !!! :shock: They could have added EQs...
"Matrix is a new affordable small format console..."
SSL and me don't have the same definition of "affordable" :wink:
My opinion is SSL is very good stuff, but overpriced ! :evil:
eD)))
"Matrix is a new affordable small format console..."
SSL and me don't have the same definition of "affordable" :wink:
My opinion is SSL is very good stuff, but overpriced ! :evil:
eD)))
SSLtech
Well-known member
[quote author="vertiges"]My opinion is SSL is very good stuff, but overpriced ! :evil: [/quote]
The day you can build something with an equal set of features and quality and then sell it for less is the day that I will agree with you.
Keith
The day you can build something with an equal set of features and quality and then sell it for less is the day that I will agree with you.
Keith
burdij
Well-known member
I am sure they have this unit in mind, but Rupert's comes with analog eq on each channel. The SSL unit appears to be a front end (sans converters, a seperate box you need to buy) for their DSP effects plugins and a DAW controller.
I think the Neve routing scheme is sub-optimal (traditional?), though, by comparison.
I think the Neve routing scheme is sub-optimal (traditional?), though, by comparison.
vertiges
Well-known member
[quote author="SSLtech"]The day you can build something with an equal set of features and quality and then sell it for less is the day that I will agree with you.
Keith[/quote]
Keith, I totally agree with the fact SSL=Quality, but what I meant is : take and empty rack, put the SSL name on it and the price already reach the 1,000 $ ! They bought Cubisoft, and now the price of the EDL Convert Pro just doubled. What I mean is you have to pay for the prestigious SSL name too.
It's the same with Neve. $ 8,500 for a pair of 1073 ??? :shock:
Another good example of "overpricey"...
And I'm not gonna mention Digidesign... :green:
Arghh... Damned ! I did it ! :grin:
"overpricey" versus "normal pricey" brands like : API, SPL, Empirical Labs, Neve Portico, Buzz Audio, etc...
Peace,
eD
Keith[/quote]
Keith, I totally agree with the fact SSL=Quality, but what I meant is : take and empty rack, put the SSL name on it and the price already reach the 1,000 $ ! They bought Cubisoft, and now the price of the EDL Convert Pro just doubled. What I mean is you have to pay for the prestigious SSL name too.
It's the same with Neve. $ 8,500 for a pair of 1073 ??? :shock:
Another good example of "overpricey"...
And I'm not gonna mention Digidesign... :green:
Arghh... Damned ! I did it ! :grin:
"overpricey" versus "normal pricey" brands like : API, SPL, Empirical Labs, Neve Portico, Buzz Audio, etc...
Peace,
eD
That Neve does not come with analogue EQs on each channel. The picture is shown with the "optional" penthouse, which houses the "optional" EQs, comps and preamps (I think they're Porticos). Haven't heard this console yet, but I'm very interested. I've always wanted a nice summing box that works like a console AND has 8 aux sends.
I already have racks of outboard preamps, EQs and compressors, so I've always had a problem with this obsolete mindset that all cosoles must have a pre and EQ on every channel.
That's a cute little SSL too...
I already have racks of outboard preamps, EQs and compressors, so I've always had a problem with this obsolete mindset that all cosoles must have a pre and EQ on every channel.
That's a cute little SSL too...
I cant imagine doing a "real" session without a large frame console with all its "redundant" signal processing. Every single time Ive tried to do the DAW or rack pre type session Ive hit walls pretty early on with "Oh, we need this synth up" and have to de-patch what we where working on to get the track. even with medium range boards, there is at least 32 pres with consistancy all the way down. the boutique pre is for the vocal or lead, and I even hate having to change up for each step. the real deal is to have a large frame board with and a boutique pres for each track you want it for. also, I cant stand having everyone in the room looking over your shoulder the entire time cause the DAW is everything. cue mix, tape punch, monitor mix. no one can help at all.
pucho812
Well-known member
[quote author="amorris"]
I cant imagine doing a "real" session without a large frame console with all its "redundant" signal processing. Every single time Ive tried to do the DAW or rack pre type session Ive hit walls pretty early on with "Oh, we need this synth up" and have to de-patch what we where working on to get the track. even with medium range boards, there is at least 32 pres with consistancy all the way down. the boutique pre is for the vocal or lead, and I even hate having to change up for each step. the real deal is to have a large frame board with and a boutique pres for each track you want it for. also, I cant stand having everyone in the room looking over your shoulder the entire time cause the DAW is everything. cue mix, tape punch, monitor mix. no one can help at all.[/quote]
I agree. I have worked in a couple places around town doing sessions that had no real console just a pro control, control 24 or the Icon. It sucks. Look at the firehouse in Pasadena. You have an all pro tools HD place that their main room has an Icon. To track a band you have plethora of outboard pre's, eqs and compressors. However they are all behind the Icon at the back of the engineer in racks. You have to constantly turn around and leave the mix position just to make an adjustment.
I cant imagine doing a "real" session without a large frame console with all its "redundant" signal processing. Every single time Ive tried to do the DAW or rack pre type session Ive hit walls pretty early on with "Oh, we need this synth up" and have to de-patch what we where working on to get the track. even with medium range boards, there is at least 32 pres with consistancy all the way down. the boutique pre is for the vocal or lead, and I even hate having to change up for each step. the real deal is to have a large frame board with and a boutique pres for each track you want it for. also, I cant stand having everyone in the room looking over your shoulder the entire time cause the DAW is everything. cue mix, tape punch, monitor mix. no one can help at all.[/quote]
I agree. I have worked in a couple places around town doing sessions that had no real console just a pro control, control 24 or the Icon. It sucks. Look at the firehouse in Pasadena. You have an all pro tools HD place that their main room has an Icon. To track a band you have plethora of outboard pre's, eqs and compressors. However they are all behind the Icon at the back of the engineer in racks. You have to constantly turn around and leave the mix position just to make an adjustment.
SSLtech
Well-known member
NO console can ever be all things to all people.
We have SSLs, Ameks, Soundcrafts, Sonys, all sorts of things... and everyone wants to use outboard preamps.
...So now the problem is that with the SSL you have to use outboard preamps... -I don't get it.
If we have a rack of Portico preamps someone wants API. If we had API, they'd probably ask for Neves. There's no pleasing everybody.
This is a controller, a VERY fine analog summer, a session control center, a signal router and a few other things. It's also made by a company which stands FIRMLY behind EVERYTHING that they sell, and you won't find too many dissatisfied customers... -Up until 15 months ago, they were still servicing snd stocking parts for consoles from 1979... -That's 27 years and they still supported them. (RoHS changed all of that, of course...)
Anyhow... This is aimed at the small studio owner/operator. They will buy whatever preamps they want, and nowadays everyone appears to want a selection by several manufacturers, and NOBODY seems to profess to being happy with all the preamps from one maker...
On top of everything, it looks FABULOUS. -I recently installed thirteen AWS900+'s, and a lot of people said "but I don't really use the analog inputs..."
..So here's a similar thing with no input modules.
If youwant to work a different way, SSL will make you an AWS900+... or a duality... or a 9K... But this is not for people who aren't doing a lot with an analog console. -They want to work ITB, with a superlative controller, and sum in the analog domain...
And it's very, VERY good at that indeed.
Keith
We have SSLs, Ameks, Soundcrafts, Sonys, all sorts of things... and everyone wants to use outboard preamps.
...So now the problem is that with the SSL you have to use outboard preamps... -I don't get it.
If we have a rack of Portico preamps someone wants API. If we had API, they'd probably ask for Neves. There's no pleasing everybody.
This is a controller, a VERY fine analog summer, a session control center, a signal router and a few other things. It's also made by a company which stands FIRMLY behind EVERYTHING that they sell, and you won't find too many dissatisfied customers... -Up until 15 months ago, they were still servicing snd stocking parts for consoles from 1979... -That's 27 years and they still supported them. (RoHS changed all of that, of course...)
Anyhow... This is aimed at the small studio owner/operator. They will buy whatever preamps they want, and nowadays everyone appears to want a selection by several manufacturers, and NOBODY seems to profess to being happy with all the preamps from one maker...
On top of everything, it looks FABULOUS. -I recently installed thirteen AWS900+'s, and a lot of people said "but I don't really use the analog inputs..."
..So here's a similar thing with no input modules.
If youwant to work a different way, SSL will make you an AWS900+... or a duality... or a 9K... But this is not for people who aren't doing a lot with an analog console. -They want to work ITB, with a superlative controller, and sum in the analog domain...
And it's very, VERY good at that indeed.
Keith
Dont get me wrong, different tools for different folks. and selling studio time, I agree, every engineer wants to work a different way, there is no pleasing everyone. But for me, in a session where I'm in charge, better tracks come from the other side of the glass, not mine. quick and easy with no interuptions makes for better music. So give me a decent board, and yes any SSL is a great board, and I can make it happen.
Now overdubs, DAW can be great. open the tracks quickly, save and move on, now thats workflow. but with a full band? no way.
Now overdubs, DAW can be great. open the tracks quickly, save and move on, now thats workflow. but with a full band? no way.
pucho812
Well-known member
keef I believe that falls under the catagory of you can't please all of the people all of the time.
SSLtech
Well-known member
I think the answer is to book studios that have what you need, and NOT book rooms which DON'T have what you need.
Keith
Keith
matta
Well-known member
I think the SSL Matrix is STUNNING!
While I don't have the cash to buy one it truly offers a WEALTH of features for it's price point... heck take 3 x Dangerous Music 2Buss 16x2 active summing units to match the 40+ summing channels in the SSL and you get a retail price of $7875 (give or take a few channels), a Dangerous Music B-Box center section at $1,400 and hmmm, lets say a C|24, at $9,000 you get just under $20,000... but the Matrix offers all that and more in a convenient small foot print console.
The digital patchbay is going to be GREAT for guys mixing ITB but wanting to have a couple choice piece of outboard, a few comps, eq's and pres.
Considering the Neve is $49,000 sans any EQ's or Comps the asking price of the SSL looks to be a lot more affordable.
Plus as Keef mentioned the aftersales support and servicing of their products seems to be pretty amazing.
I see this in a studio where the engineers/owners buy it for THEIR needs not others. As many have shared it is hard to please everyone... you buy and API someone wants a Neve, get an SSL, someone wants an API... just build your room around what works for you and the clients who use it will do so because their needs fall in line with your convictions and what you offer.... unless you are a millionaire, then buy em all, just because you can...
Cheers
Matt
While I don't have the cash to buy one it truly offers a WEALTH of features for it's price point... heck take 3 x Dangerous Music 2Buss 16x2 active summing units to match the 40+ summing channels in the SSL and you get a retail price of $7875 (give or take a few channels), a Dangerous Music B-Box center section at $1,400 and hmmm, lets say a C|24, at $9,000 you get just under $20,000... but the Matrix offers all that and more in a convenient small foot print console.
The digital patchbay is going to be GREAT for guys mixing ITB but wanting to have a couple choice piece of outboard, a few comps, eq's and pres.
Considering the Neve is $49,000 sans any EQ's or Comps the asking price of the SSL looks to be a lot more affordable.
Plus as Keef mentioned the aftersales support and servicing of their products seems to be pretty amazing.
I see this in a studio where the engineers/owners buy it for THEIR needs not others. As many have shared it is hard to please everyone... you buy and API someone wants a Neve, get an SSL, someone wants an API... just build your room around what works for you and the clients who use it will do so because their needs fall in line with your convictions and what you offer.... unless you are a millionaire, then buy em all, just because you can...
Cheers
Matt
TomWaterman
Well-known member
I'm with the guys who like it.
I thought it looked funky at first BUT I'm coming around. The recessed faders for keyboard mounting are a nice touch...just wish there was space for a mouse mat! LOL
It does pretty much everything I'd want for a small mix space...
Spent some time with the AWS & Duality, personally feel the MDAC fader system with HUI control is sweet. It works in a manner so much more smoothly than other HUI devices and the workflow it brings is great.
I was going to go for an X-Rack plus Euphonix MC this year but this is tempting, I can make do with my banger Corsa car for a while longer! LOL I can't really afford it though...but still. hahaha not likely at all in fact.
The foldback options are well thought out, the onboard patchbay is slick...especially for the price. Got to be FETs right? Although, it will still need a patchbay so I doubt the real worth of having the on-board system.
Fader auto good...
I think SSL nailed it for small systems. Although I know someone else is working on something VERY similar for about half the cost...
-T
I thought it looked funky at first BUT I'm coming around. The recessed faders for keyboard mounting are a nice touch...just wish there was space for a mouse mat! LOL
It does pretty much everything I'd want for a small mix space...
Spent some time with the AWS & Duality, personally feel the MDAC fader system with HUI control is sweet. It works in a manner so much more smoothly than other HUI devices and the workflow it brings is great.
I was going to go for an X-Rack plus Euphonix MC this year but this is tempting, I can make do with my banger Corsa car for a while longer! LOL I can't really afford it though...but still. hahaha not likely at all in fact.
The foldback options are well thought out, the onboard patchbay is slick...especially for the price. Got to be FETs right? Although, it will still need a patchbay so I doubt the real worth of having the on-board system.
Fader auto good...
I think SSL nailed it for small systems. Although I know someone else is working on something VERY similar for about half the cost...
-T
[quote author="matta"]
Considering the Neve is $49,000 sans any EQ's or Comps the asking price of the SSL looks to be a lot more affordable.
[/quote]
Hey Matt,
Where did you get your figure for this? When I talked to Rupert, he told me that the list price was just under $25,000.
The whole outboard mic pre thing being cumbersome really depends on the way you set things up. I've got all my outboard mic pres (32 channels) at the console position and they are easily adjusted from the sitting position. To me, it's always been easier to patch an outboard mic pre than to route the mic pre in any console, and with the pres at the console position, there is no difference in ergonomics.
I'm not exactly clear as to why amorris has to de-patch a mic pre to pull a synth up. You're right, that sucks, however, I've never had this problem; I just plug it into an open outboard pre. As far as consistency goes, the only difference between 32 console pres and a rack of 32 (of the same) preamps is that YOU get to pick your favorite preamp, with the latter. The console preamps only confuse the buying process, and is a compromise, at best, between the sound/functionality of the console, and the sound of the preamps. Ever tracked a band in a E series SSL room without any outboard mic pres? Me neither...
I think the mixing console should be just that... a mixing console. Not a mixing console with a bunch of the same EQs, comps, and mic pres that I may rarely or NEVER use. My needs are simple... good quality summing, plenty of AUX sends, lots of channels with real faders and a good master section.
Considering the Neve is $49,000 sans any EQ's or Comps the asking price of the SSL looks to be a lot more affordable.
[/quote]
Hey Matt,
Where did you get your figure for this? When I talked to Rupert, he told me that the list price was just under $25,000.
The whole outboard mic pre thing being cumbersome really depends on the way you set things up. I've got all my outboard mic pres (32 channels) at the console position and they are easily adjusted from the sitting position. To me, it's always been easier to patch an outboard mic pre than to route the mic pre in any console, and with the pres at the console position, there is no difference in ergonomics.
I'm not exactly clear as to why amorris has to de-patch a mic pre to pull a synth up. You're right, that sucks, however, I've never had this problem; I just plug it into an open outboard pre. As far as consistency goes, the only difference between 32 console pres and a rack of 32 (of the same) preamps is that YOU get to pick your favorite preamp, with the latter. The console preamps only confuse the buying process, and is a compromise, at best, between the sound/functionality of the console, and the sound of the preamps. Ever tracked a band in a E series SSL room without any outboard mic pres? Me neither...
I think the mixing console should be just that... a mixing console. Not a mixing console with a bunch of the same EQs, comps, and mic pres that I may rarely or NEVER use. My needs are simple... good quality summing, plenty of AUX sends, lots of channels with real faders and a good master section.
pucho812
Well-known member
fwiw I have tracked a band without external pres on an SSL E, G, J, and K never had a big problem with the sonics of any SSL mic pre. granted they not neve but so what. Records came out good. we all like to work certain ways with certain gear. Not one suit fits all.
