solder_city
Well-known member
hey! i want to put a chevy transmission in my ford! can you help?
CD player in my old Studebaker
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vertiges
Well-known member
[quote author="solder_city"]hey! i want to put a chevy transmission in my ford! can you help?[/quote]
:grin:
:grin:
plumsolly
Well-known member
If i could offer you any help I would... :wink:
-Ben
[quote author="solder_city"]hey! i want to put a chevy transmission in my ford! can you help?[/quote]
I once put a pontiac transmission into my Ford, but it bolted up. I did it because it was an all synchro 3 speed.. and I couldn't afford a 4 speed.
I suspect kids today don't grok double clutching to downshift into low gear...
--------
WRT 5534, there are many drop in replacements that will give superior performance to the "long in the tooth" 5534, so unless you have a desire to make things harder than they need to be, there are easier ways to make a difference.
JR
I once put a pontiac transmission into my Ford, but it bolted up. I did it because it was an all synchro 3 speed.. and I couldn't afford a 4 speed.
I suspect kids today don't grok double clutching to downshift into low gear...
--------
WRT 5534, there are many drop in replacements that will give superior performance to the "long in the tooth" 5534, so unless you have a desire to make things harder than they need to be, there are easier ways to make a difference.
JR
> I once put a pontiac transmission into my Ford, but it bolted up.
Stuff happens. There are fewer transmission makers than car makers. Ford did have their own PoS 3-speed, but by the 1960s most gearboxes were made by specialists like Muncie. Unless the OEM specified an odd detail to keep it proprietary, they got the standard gearbox.
In general, any gearbox can be fitted to any engine, just a question of how much adaptation you can manage. I thought there were off-the-shelf kits to put a Chevy PowerGlide behind ANY engine used in drag-racing, which would help solder_city with his Ford problem. (Though for anything except drag-racing, the cheapo Ford C4 or boat-ballast C6 with upgrades are as good as Chevy's mushmatics with comparable upgrades.)
> I suspect kids today don't grok double clutching to downshift into low gear...
Transmissions have changed. I learned on unsynchro-Low boxes, with pretty worn synchro on 2 and H. Also a box with sync on L but not on R, and I have the habit of tapping into L before going to R.
But this 2002 Honda 5-stick.... purports to be synchro everywhere and double-syncho L and R. (Not sure what that is.) It won't crash (a slight rat-tat into 3rd is possible). It just won't go IN to Low except two conditions (full-stop, or the magic accident speed-match). Clutching and ring-a-ding don't work, the way I used to flog my Willys(*), Ford, GMC, Volvo. It was better with factory oil, engine oil (allowed in the manual) has made it utterly balky. At first I thought it was just tignt, but I'm at 92K miles and still the same. I either full-stop, or feather a creep-out in 2nd.
So those kids with the sideways motors and coffee-can tailpipes are learning very different techniques than we learned on our 1953 Chevy.
(I still mentally picture a front-back engine and the gears sliding fore-aft down at the end of the stick. In fact the gears are off in a corner beyond the passenger's feet. I must admit the 6-foot shift cables work awful good, damsite better than the Hudson 3-tree shifter someone adapted when the Willys' column-shift wore out in newspaper delivery service.)
(*)Yes, I know the Brits are snickering.
Stuff happens. There are fewer transmission makers than car makers. Ford did have their own PoS 3-speed, but by the 1960s most gearboxes were made by specialists like Muncie. Unless the OEM specified an odd detail to keep it proprietary, they got the standard gearbox.
In general, any gearbox can be fitted to any engine, just a question of how much adaptation you can manage. I thought there were off-the-shelf kits to put a Chevy PowerGlide behind ANY engine used in drag-racing, which would help solder_city with his Ford problem. (Though for anything except drag-racing, the cheapo Ford C4 or boat-ballast C6 with upgrades are as good as Chevy's mushmatics with comparable upgrades.)
> I suspect kids today don't grok double clutching to downshift into low gear...
Transmissions have changed. I learned on unsynchro-Low boxes, with pretty worn synchro on 2 and H. Also a box with sync on L but not on R, and I have the habit of tapping into L before going to R.
But this 2002 Honda 5-stick.... purports to be synchro everywhere and double-syncho L and R. (Not sure what that is.) It won't crash (a slight rat-tat into 3rd is possible). It just won't go IN to Low except two conditions (full-stop, or the magic accident speed-match). Clutching and ring-a-ding don't work, the way I used to flog my Willys(*), Ford, GMC, Volvo. It was better with factory oil, engine oil (allowed in the manual) has made it utterly balky. At first I thought it was just tignt, but I'm at 92K miles and still the same. I either full-stop, or feather a creep-out in 2nd.
So those kids with the sideways motors and coffee-can tailpipes are learning very different techniques than we learned on our 1953 Chevy.
(I still mentally picture a front-back engine and the gears sliding fore-aft down at the end of the stick. In fact the gears are off in a corner beyond the passenger's feet. I must admit the 6-foot shift cables work awful good, damsite better than the Hudson 3-tree shifter someone adapted when the Willys' column-shift wore out in newspaper delivery service.)
(*)Yes, I know the Brits are snickering.
hrasco
Member
Cripes. Is there anything this guy doesn't know about?
Let's get more on topic. How can I convert 6V positive ground to 12V negative ground using the same ground plane so I can put a CD player in my old Studebaker?
Let's get more on topic. How can I convert 6V positive ground to 12V negative ground using the same ground plane so I can put a CD player in my old Studebaker?
Just put a 12 V battery/gen in it and dim the dash lights.
Ground is a relative concept...
I once tapped into the mid cell jumper for 6V on a 12V battery to power a 6V radio and other low power stuff, but the battery didn't charge right...
Just convert to 12v and be done with it...
Those old 6V horns and starter motors work great at 12V.. for a while. :grin:
JR
edit: maybe I should take a break... I'm a jack of all trades, expert at none..
Ground is a relative concept...
I once tapped into the mid cell jumper for 6V on a 12V battery to power a 6V radio and other low power stuff, but the battery didn't charge right...
Just convert to 12v and be done with it...
Those old 6V horns and starter motors work great at 12V.. for a while. :grin:
JR
edit: maybe I should take a break... I'm a jack of all trades, expert at none..
hrasco
Member
Thanks for the reply. I have thought about 12v conversion and decided against it. I would then have to electrically isolate the CD player from the chassis which would maybe not be too big of a deal as long as I don't hook up the radio antenna. Since I use the radio more than CDs that is not an option.
There are converters available for this application but since they cost $100 - $150 I was thinking maybe I could DIY for a bit less. What I assume they do is convert the 6v positive ground to 18v which would give me +12v relative to chassis. What would it take to do this at a current capable of running a modestly powered CD player?
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
There are converters available for this application but since they cost $100 - $150 I was thinking maybe I could DIY for a bit less. What I assume they do is convert the 6v positive ground to 18v which would give me +12v relative to chassis. What would it take to do this at a current capable of running a modestly powered CD player?
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
bcarso
Well-known member
I'd go for isolation to begin with, as it only complicates the necessary magnetics very slightly. But this is not a trivial DIY project (unless the plans already exist somewhere).
When my cassette player had gone south and I wanted to have music other than the local radio stations on a road trip, I bought an inverter and used my boom box, hoping not to burn batteries---it ate them at a prodigious rate.
Two problems: when using the boom box CD player, the servo couldn't capture unless the vehicle was vibration-free. Once started, it would play through despite the vibration.
Second problem: the noise induced into the cassette playback electronics by the pseudo-sine inverter was hideous, intolerable.
I eventually solved the problems by getting a new car. And before that someone broke into the old car and grabbed the inverter. So it goes.
When my cassette player had gone south and I wanted to have music other than the local radio stations on a road trip, I bought an inverter and used my boom box, hoping not to burn batteries---it ate them at a prodigious rate.
Two problems: when using the boom box CD player, the servo couldn't capture unless the vehicle was vibration-free. Once started, it would play through despite the vibration.
Second problem: the noise induced into the cassette playback electronics by the pseudo-sine inverter was hideous, intolerable.
I eventually solved the problems by getting a new car. And before that someone broke into the old car and grabbed the inverter. So it goes.
pstamler
Well-known member
[quote author="bcarso"]When my cassette player had gone south and I wanted to have music other than the local radio stations on a road trip, I bought an inverter and used my boom box, hoping not to burn batteries---it ate them at a prodigious rate.
Two problems: when using the boom box CD player, the servo couldn't capture unless the vehicle was vibration-free. Once started, it would play through despite the vibration.
Second problem: the noise induced into the cassette playback electronics by the pseudo-sine inverter was hideous, intolerable.[/quote]
Geez, I did someething very similar, except that instead of an inverter I rigged a plug into the cigarette lighter socket with clip-leads on the ends. One went to the negative battery terminal on the boom-box, one to the positive, I think through a dropping resistor. Worked like a charm.
Peace,
Paul
Two problems: when using the boom box CD player, the servo couldn't capture unless the vehicle was vibration-free. Once started, it would play through despite the vibration.
Second problem: the noise induced into the cassette playback electronics by the pseudo-sine inverter was hideous, intolerable.[/quote]
Geez, I did someething very similar, except that instead of an inverter I rigged a plug into the cigarette lighter socket with clip-leads on the ends. One went to the negative battery terminal on the boom-box, one to the positive, I think through a dropping resistor. Worked like a charm.
Peace,
Paul
bcarso
Well-known member
That would have been sensible, although I think this particular one actually had a center tap in the battery string. Unfortunately the trip was an emergency one and I hadn't time to find out whether everything worked on not when I embarked.
[quote author="JohnRoberts"]
Those old 6V horns and starter motors work great at 12V.. for a while. :grin:
JR
[/quote]
if it's a beetle, just replace the throw-out-solenoid on the starter, and it wont slam the rim so hard..it'll be fine for many years if you do that...
j
Those old 6V horns and starter motors work great at 12V.. for a while. :grin:
JR
[/quote]
if it's a beetle, just replace the throw-out-solenoid on the starter, and it wont slam the rim so hard..it'll be fine for many years if you do that...
j
But-but-but.... how do you power your radar detector on 6V????
(Only half-joking: some of those 1950s Studebakers were awful fast at the top end.)
I've mucked with DC-DC converters enuff to know that $100 is a fair price. It "should" be $50, but demand is so very low that $100 is fair, and less total strain than perfecting a DIY.
Sniff around the DC/DC module catalogs. You might find a 100W brick for less than $100. (Yes, the demand of a modern dash-box can approach 100W.) And it might not throw too much hash. But most are either 48V in or 3V out. 6V-12V may be rare, especially at surplus price.
Yes, isolation is probably needed to run the wrong ground. It is possible to float everything, but neg-ground is so standard that I bet most radios have something neggy bonding to the chassis.
Vibrator and 2*6VCT transformer would work, and is "period", except most vibrators were only good for a pair of 6V6, say 30W max.
Too-obvious: You could just charge a 12V batt at home and run the radio on that for several hours.
Flipping the polarity on a '53 Studie is fairly trivial. Nothing cares. (Motors and gauges still go the right way.) But still 6V. You could stack a second home-charged 6V batt for a +12V line.
Change-over from 6V to 12V is so obvious, so convenient, and generally so simple, that I assume you have reason to cling to obsolete voltage.
It was sometimes done to run a second dynamo for added loads. The hassle is that the classic crank - generator - fan/pump triangle belt plan will not accomodate another load, so you must hack a second crank pulley as well as your alternator mounts.
It was also done to use a DynaMotor. 6V motor and a generator. Most often the gen made high voltage for plates, but all outputs were available. Few can be found today. A 6V generator can be a motor, and a 12V generator coupled to it. I guess two dynamos cost more than $150. The whine is distinctive.
I suppose you could drop a 12V generator in there (even a 12V regulator on the 6V generator and accept no-charge below 1,500RPM) and rig a monster voltage-dropper. A depleted battery can want 20A or more, 6V drop at 20A is 120 Watts, and this is a very not-1953 hunk of aluminum fins. (Hummmm.... you could hide a heat exchanger in the lower radiator hose: battery-refill tends to happen while the engine is still cool, and modern sillycon will stand 212F.)
It occurs to me that a standard PC power supply main transformer has 5V and 12V windings, both typically CT. The CTs are common-ed on the PCB but typically not in the transformer. You could pull it out and attach push-pull transistors to the 5V winding. Keep the whole 12V rectifier and caps. Nominal output is 12/5 times the Studie's voltage, could be 17V at cruise, so you want a duty-cycle control to sag it toward 14V. Regulated seems nice but a fixed ~~84% duty cycle would let the "12V" track about twice the Studie's voltage, which is acceptable. I bet that perfecting this (including filtering the 23rd harmonic off the AM band) will be $150 of brain-pain. Keep your fingers off the original 300V winding!
As long as you are voltage-converting, and hanging on a DIY audio forum, why not kick-up some 300VDC and run a bank of 6V6? You GOT the heater power right there. A tuner and CD drawer will run a long time on a 12V tractor battery.
(Only half-joking: some of those 1950s Studebakers were awful fast at the top end.)
I've mucked with DC-DC converters enuff to know that $100 is a fair price. It "should" be $50, but demand is so very low that $100 is fair, and less total strain than perfecting a DIY.
Sniff around the DC/DC module catalogs. You might find a 100W brick for less than $100. (Yes, the demand of a modern dash-box can approach 100W.) And it might not throw too much hash. But most are either 48V in or 3V out. 6V-12V may be rare, especially at surplus price.
Yes, isolation is probably needed to run the wrong ground. It is possible to float everything, but neg-ground is so standard that I bet most radios have something neggy bonding to the chassis.
Vibrator and 2*6VCT transformer would work, and is "period", except most vibrators were only good for a pair of 6V6, say 30W max.
Too-obvious: You could just charge a 12V batt at home and run the radio on that for several hours.
Flipping the polarity on a '53 Studie is fairly trivial. Nothing cares. (Motors and gauges still go the right way.) But still 6V. You could stack a second home-charged 6V batt for a +12V line.
Change-over from 6V to 12V is so obvious, so convenient, and generally so simple, that I assume you have reason to cling to obsolete voltage.
It was sometimes done to run a second dynamo for added loads. The hassle is that the classic crank - generator - fan/pump triangle belt plan will not accomodate another load, so you must hack a second crank pulley as well as your alternator mounts.
It was also done to use a DynaMotor. 6V motor and a generator. Most often the gen made high voltage for plates, but all outputs were available. Few can be found today. A 6V generator can be a motor, and a 12V generator coupled to it. I guess two dynamos cost more than $150. The whine is distinctive.
I suppose you could drop a 12V generator in there (even a 12V regulator on the 6V generator and accept no-charge below 1,500RPM) and rig a monster voltage-dropper. A depleted battery can want 20A or more, 6V drop at 20A is 120 Watts, and this is a very not-1953 hunk of aluminum fins. (Hummmm.... you could hide a heat exchanger in the lower radiator hose: battery-refill tends to happen while the engine is still cool, and modern sillycon will stand 212F.)
It occurs to me that a standard PC power supply main transformer has 5V and 12V windings, both typically CT. The CTs are common-ed on the PCB but typically not in the transformer. You could pull it out and attach push-pull transistors to the 5V winding. Keep the whole 12V rectifier and caps. Nominal output is 12/5 times the Studie's voltage, could be 17V at cruise, so you want a duty-cycle control to sag it toward 14V. Regulated seems nice but a fixed ~~84% duty cycle would let the "12V" track about twice the Studie's voltage, which is acceptable. I bet that perfecting this (including filtering the 23rd harmonic off the AM band) will be $150 of brain-pain. Keep your fingers off the original 300V winding!
As long as you are voltage-converting, and hanging on a DIY audio forum, why not kick-up some 300VDC and run a bank of 6V6? You GOT the heater power right there. A tuner and CD drawer will run a long time on a 12V tractor battery.
okgb
Well-known member
You'll need some massive low end to overcome those
screaming freeways , but Tubes ARE our friends
but otherwise let's keep it on topic , oh wait
Aliens are tranmissioning to me now , nevermind
yes master i will warm the world with tubes
screaming freeways , but Tubes ARE our friends
but otherwise let's keep it on topic , oh wait
Aliens are tranmissioning to me now , nevermind
yes master i will warm the world with tubes
BYacey
Well-known member
Go with an 12V alternator and battery, change your bulbs and put a 3 terminal voltage regulator to run your guages. Problem solved. Oh, and don't forget a bigger ballast resistor for the ignition coil.
Go hit the Nat Semi simple switcher stuff Brad,
It's pretty easy to do a negative output switcher.
Yeah you have to filter it and all, but jeez, you know that.
(edit)
Ouch, oh well, I gotta admit, my eyes saw bcarso. damn, sorry.
(edit 2)
damn, they're both there.
Either way, a voltage inverter from a supply isn't that tough, even as a voltage doubler. Although maybe I better go check my sources after this excursion...
It's pretty easy to do a negative output switcher.
Yeah you have to filter it and all, but jeez, you know that.
(edit)
Ouch, oh well, I gotta admit, my eyes saw bcarso. damn, sorry.
(edit 2)
damn, they're both there.
Either way, a voltage inverter from a supply isn't that tough, even as a voltage doubler. Although maybe I better go check my sources after this excursion...
bcarso
Well-known member
[quote author="Dan Kennedy"]
Ouch, oh well, I gotta admit, my eyes saw bcarso. damn, sorry.
...[/quote]
I get that a lot :razz:
Ouch, oh well, I gotta admit, my eyes saw bcarso. damn, sorry.
...[/quote]
I get that a lot :razz:
mikep
Well-known member
[quote author="Dan Kennedy"]
Either way, a voltage inverter from a supply isn't that tough, even as a voltage doubler. [/quote]
indeed. one could even argue that this is the "easiest" thing to do with switchmode design. the "cuk" topology is inherently very low noise compared to other switchmode designs.
mike p
Either way, a voltage inverter from a supply isn't that tough, even as a voltage doubler. [/quote]
indeed. one could even argue that this is the "easiest" thing to do with switchmode design. the "cuk" topology is inherently very low noise compared to other switchmode designs.
mike p
walter
Well-known member
I put a 12v alternator and battery in my '47 chevy. It works. I had to match the pulleys grooves. The fuel guage was slow at the top and went to empty fast, still like that but not so extreme with the regulator. Rebuilt the starter for 12v, after 2 years of use. I still need a radio. I tried a 3:55 rear, but had to start in first. Put in a 3:83 and start in 2nd on a flat road, and it goes 80 now. I used to go 60 with the 4:11, engine howling.
> put a 3 terminal voltage regulator to run your guages
Ford, I think most non-GM, had a regulator for the gauges.
Dunno why Walter had odd readings.
Regulator??? In 1949?
It was a bi-metal "flasher". A heater and a bi-metal switch conspired to adjust the duty-cycle for constant temperature in the heater. This happened around 5V, meaning normal 6V battery drift (5.5V-7V) always hit the F or H mark on the gauge. Yeah, it was really 0V-6V-0V-6V, but these gauges are thermal devices. Cheap, robust, naturally filter fuel-slosh and regulator flash. Occasionally, if you look close, you can see the needle twitch once a second or so.
The 5V flash regulator should self-adjust to 12V with little error, just ON half the time.
If not, you get a 7805 chip. Tack caps and wires to the legs, drill the tab, bolt it to the back of the gauge. When my Ford Mailtruck's reg drifted down to average 4.5V, I did that and the gauges were solid as a rock. A 7805 will stand 12V input fine, though you do need to heatsink at this current level. In theory it is not sure to survive alternator load-dump spikes, but I think this is the 1 in 100,000 failure which drives OEMs crazy, and unlikely to hit any single person.
Ford, I think most non-GM, had a regulator for the gauges.
Dunno why Walter had odd readings.
Regulator??? In 1949?
It was a bi-metal "flasher". A heater and a bi-metal switch conspired to adjust the duty-cycle for constant temperature in the heater. This happened around 5V, meaning normal 6V battery drift (5.5V-7V) always hit the F or H mark on the gauge. Yeah, it was really 0V-6V-0V-6V, but these gauges are thermal devices. Cheap, robust, naturally filter fuel-slosh and regulator flash. Occasionally, if you look close, you can see the needle twitch once a second or so.
The 5V flash regulator should self-adjust to 12V with little error, just ON half the time.
If not, you get a 7805 chip. Tack caps and wires to the legs, drill the tab, bolt it to the back of the gauge. When my Ford Mailtruck's reg drifted down to average 4.5V, I did that and the gauges were solid as a rock. A 7805 will stand 12V input fine, though you do need to heatsink at this current level. In theory it is not sure to survive alternator load-dump spikes, but I think this is the 1 in 100,000 failure which drives OEMs crazy, and unlikely to hit any single person.
