Is this a weird Y-Cable (see pic)?

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Aj

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
63
Location
Greater Ann Arbor, MI, USA
I'm having a load of fun figuring out how to connect my converters to my headphone amp (a Rane HC6).

Obviously, I'm going from "two balanced mono outs" (converter is a Tango24) into "one unbalanced stereo in" (direct stereo IN of the Rane). The Rane manual says I should use a Y-Cable that looks like this, and connect all shields:

ycable.jpg


Question is... is this a standard "off-the-shelf" sort of Y-cable? Or do I have to build something custom? Right now, I'm using some Y-cables I bought from Audiopile, and I'm getting definite hum in the headphone mix (and some mildly distorting and sizzley bass freqs).

Best,
Aj

P.S. Tried swapping in different Tangos and a new Rane - same problem. All gear is plugged into the same wall circuit.
 
That's pretty much off-the-shelf.

Your balanced outs might not be too happy having thir cold legs shorted. I which case, you'd need to use a balanced to unbalanced converter (whether active or transformer). The shorted cold leg can also induce cross-talk too.

I have had a thought which would be to either lift the cold leg or tie it to earth via a resistor to stop loading down the output, but I haven't looked into the technicalities of doing so.
 
I always thought Y-cables are splitting things (as in: sending the very same signal to multiple destinations), but as it seems that's incorrect.

I'd call the cable above an insert-cable, but if Rane calls it an Y (wye), then I'll follow, there's nothing sofar where I disagree upon with them.
 
rodabod, thanks for the reply.

So I need a balanced to unbalanced converter? Like an Ebtech Hum Eliminator? Wow, that's going to get pricey (there are 6 stereo inputs on the HC6 - I use them all so everyone can have their own hp mix - that means I'd need 12 channels of hiz/loz conversion!)

clintrubber, I'm using this y-cable (indeed, it is an insert cable - so I'm following Rane's suggestion correctly then?):

http://www.audiopile.net/products/Patch_snakes/MTIS/MTIS_8x16/MTIS-8x16_cutsheet.asp

I can't believe my problem is so unusual. How else do people connect their converters to headphone amps?

Aj
 
I'll echo Roddy's remark, your output stage may not like having its cold leg shorted, unless it's a cross-coupled stage.

If it's not a CC stage, or a transformer (I don't know of too many converters with transformer outs... There's the Burl (sp?) one - looks nice - not cheap...), then your only option - aside from buying some kind of active converter buffer or transformer - will be to connect only the HOT output to the positive terminal of the can amp.

If you don't use a converter / transformer, you're going to lose 6dB - not much of an issue for a headphone amp IMO.

I'd suffer the 6dB loss personally - unless you think the players might complain.

Don't short the cold leg unless you know you have a CC or transformer Output-stage. Leave the Cold floating, i.e. not connected.


Justin
 
edit - go here: http://www.rane.com/note110.html

Diagram 9 is your man. Imagine it's going to either side of a stereo jack instead of a mono one, i.e. you connect one HOT output to the left / other HOT lead to the right.
 
Alright, this is quickly becoming educational for me (that is to say, over my head :grin: ). Let me try to echo back what your advice is....

To do this right, I need to get or build a 6 ch. TRS x 12 ch. TS insert snake with the COLD floating (i.e. not connected) on all channels.)

I don't trust myself to build this - is this the kind of thing someplace like RedCo could make me (or someone else)?

Thanks for all the advice. I sure don't want to drop hundreds on hiz/loz converters. Again, I can't believe this problem isn't more widely reported!

Aj
 
[quote author="Aj"]Question is... is this a standard "off-the-shelf" sort of Y-cable? [/quote]

Yes. It's often called an 'insert' cable because you use it to connect an outboard device to 1/4" TRS insert point usually found on low- to moderate-cost mixing consoles.

-a
 
Yeah, it looks like I'm using Rane's recommended Y (insert) cable. It just seems odd that I'm still having problems, given how common this sort of "balanced out to headphone amp" connection is.

Aj
 
Can you replace the TS jacks with TRS ones? This wouldn't take too long and should solve your problem.
 
Rod, I'm assuming you mean swapping the Tango out jacks from TS to TRS? I think I'd rather leave the Tango's stock - and have someone like RedCo build me the cold-floating insert snake you and Thermionic have suggested. Wish I could get one built by the weekend! I have a session and need this asap... :grin:

Anyway someday I'll be upgrading to something better than those Tangos, and I want to be able to sell them without any mods to undo.

Aj
 
If you can solder, just copy Rane Diagram 9, but substituting a Stereo / TRS jack in place of the TS jack shown on the right of the diagram. In effect, you replace 2 TS jacks with one TRS.

You common the Ground from each output into a Y. You leave COLD unconnected. HOT from Ch1 goes to say, L on the TRS jack, HOT from Ch2 goes to say, R on the TRS Jack. Bob's yer uncle (although you lose 6dB, which is nothing to worry about for headphone monitoring).

Justin
 
Justin,

I'm confused - you say the cable should simply have one (1) TRS jack plug on both ends? Don't I still need to wire two (2) jack plugs (from the two individual mono outs on the converter, one for L and one for R) into the one (1) stereo jack plug on the Rane? That is to say, the converter outs are not stereo - they are individual balanced mono jacks. However, the stereo inputs on the Rane amp are indeed single stereo unbalanced 1/4" jacks.

Aj
 
You need to use a TRS jack at each end so that you don't short cold (unless you have a cross-coupled output, in which case it's ok).

You connect the HOT on each TRS jack coming from the DAC - one HOT goes to the TIP of the Stereo UNBALANCED jack going into Rane. Other HOT goes to RING of UNBALANCED jack going to Rane. The GROUND from each DAC OUTPUT is connected together to form one GROUND at the STEREO UNBALANCED JACK.


J
 
Justin,

Thanks for the more detailed explanation - I am, indeed, somewhat DIY challenged. I will be contacting RedCo and have them make me this:

6 TRS to 12 TRS insert snake, with the following specs for each channel:

- Leave COLD unconnected
- HOT from output ch. 1 goes to L on input TRS jack plug
- HOT from output ch. 2 goes to R on input TRS jack plug
- GROUND from each OUTPUT channel above is connected together to form one common GROUND on input TRS jack plug.
- Rinse & repeat for all 12 channels

That it?

Aj
 
UPDATE:

I wanted to update this thread for any people searching the archives in the future...

Redco made me a custom 12 channel TRS/TRS to TRS insert snake with the cold side disconnected and it DID NOT WORK. Instead, all the audio became incredibly hissy (as well as the requisite 6db volume drop, which I was prepared to live with - but the hiss was unacceptable).

More troubleshooting has revealed that this problem was apparently caused by THE WORD CLOCK CABLE CONNECTING MY TWO TANGO CONVERTERS.

Discussion of the word clock issue continues in this thread.
 
What ? You have your custom cables made by RedCo and you publicly admit it here, in this famous DIY audio forum ? Shame on you!

Just kiddin' :green: :thumb:
 

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