Speaking of tube regulators

What gives? Is there a noticeable difference between tube regulators and solid state in preamps, etc.?

none than i can think of outside of size, expense, weight and heat.

tube regulators are interesting from a historical perspective but im not aware of any good reason to use them nowadays except perhaps for very high voltages (kilovolts)

So you're getting the same tone as you would from a solid state regulator?

listen for yourself is the only real answer.

[quote author="emrr"]listen for yourself is the only real answer.[/quote]

How say your ears?

:razz:

it doesn't matter what my ears say; it can't necessarily be described, and it varies with the circuit in question. it only matters to your ears in the circuit in question.

If I was R&D for some big company and could build several PSU's per project that would be great. :razz:

Doing this at home myself on the at home budget I don't think I'll have that opportunity.

I tried a tube regulated psu once, for power a tube phono preamp, I was not able to get rid of some hums, I tried add caps but then the tube used for regulation (6aq5) began to ring.
I used the G9 solid state HV regulation circuit, that solved the hum issue instantly

Does the Tube rectifier have anything to do with SAG or is it just the Power Tubes. A friend rigged his reissue tweed 410 Bassman with a SS rectifier and it seemed to be a bit different but that was so long ago I cant remember what it did.

Definitely noticeable in a tube guitar amp, where the output tubes pull serious current and the tube rectifier struggles to deliver whereas the SS rectifier is rock solid, the tube rectifier suffers from output supply sag, which is often desired by guitarists wanting a more organic feel/sopund.

I don't think it would be so notiecable in preamp type rack gear, but then again I am also not convinced that we will truly achieve that classic vintage sound of the 60's tube gear unless it has a tube rectifier.

Michael

you guys are mixing up two different issues, rectification and regulation. the question was about regulation at fairly low output currents. this is a much different situation from a guitar amp pulling hundreds of ma from an unregulated supply. please lets not confuse the issue.

by the way, as far as '60s sound', lots of equipment back then used silicon rectifiers, its not exactly a new thing.

if people only spent as much time on song writing and chops as they did on worrying about this stuff...

Sorry guys, Didnt intentionally hijack the topic. I just finished a 18 watter build \ My brain saw rectifier when obviously...

pull out some tube rect data sheets and compare them with SS diode data sheets, then think about what causes sag in an unregulated circuit, and where. While you're doing that think about the size of filter caps seen in the circuits in question.

for the truly curious, buy and restore one of those Heathkit or Eico variable bench supplies, and experiment with powering your other tube gear with it, instead of using whatever you're using currently.

The difference can be similar to listening to different DA converters, or changing your recording resolution, or other similar potentially hairsplitting change. I have regulated tube supplies, unregulated tube supplies, and the normal SS supplies. You won't get a definitive answer out of me. I use what's practical and convenient for the job. Sometimes hairsplitting makes the difference. The most positive experiences I 'think' I've noticed with some tube rectifier supplies in some situations was a cleaner/clearer mid and treble, and a slightly less flat sound. Is that enough disclaimers and prerequisites for one sentence? I think I've seen something about tube rectifiers putting out far less high frequency trash than some diodes, and if that's at all true could account for what I've heard a few times.

I'm not losing sleep. Not rushing to replace diodes with tubes. Not rushing to replace tube rectifiers with diodes. If I'm building a tube piece, and I have the right power trans for tube rectification, I'll probably use it and go that way. I doubt I'd ever hand-roll a regulated tube supply. But if I have one sitting around I'll likely use it first, assuming it's right for the job.

sorry, I only read the rectifier post and didn't back track and see the regulator posts.

tch, tch, aren't we naughty!

Michael

[quote author="abby normal"]What gives? Is there a noticeable difference between tube regulators and solid state in preamps, etc.?[/quote]

Yes there are a few. Size, heat, lower ripple rejection, higher voltage dropout and lower effeciency.
A MOSfet as pass device has the same sonic flavor as a tube.

analag

let us not forget a vacuum recty has to warm-up to conduct, so it is easier on other tubes as they have a chance to get warm before the full B+ is developed. and a tube rect drops much more V than a silicon diode...cannnot imagine much variance in sound as highly filtered DC supply is preferred for low-level amp stages

I have an old Philips regulated high voltage lab-supply that looks way cool and uses nothing but tubes and the thing just keeps going, so no need to replace that.

But today building one from scratch... hmmm... global warming & stuff...


... but if you can't resist then here's more on the subject:

http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/ax/addenda/media/bicknell2890.pdf

Bye,

Peter

Application specific and unregulated tangent, but there are a good number of vintage pieces that, if you use SS rectifiers in them, will slam B+ way over the filter cap ratings until the signal tubes warm up. Tube rectifiers come up at similar rate so B+ is a slow rise without over voltage. I've put time delay relays into a few pieces to overcome this problem. Pieces in question were broadcast pieces meant for continuous duty, so the slam only happened once or twice a year in theory. In my studio today it would be every day.

Like I said, a tangent. Sorry.