TR-808's are pure magic!

I'm a 808 addict, but I don't own one.. I want one some day, but I've came to the conclusion that there's just something going on that is hard to replicate, and thus I've dropped the idea of building a clone.

Check out this video of a real 808.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VqyVUR2pikI

Notice the groove that is constantly going on? The drums do not trigger at the same time, and even if there's no shuffle action going on, the rhythm is very much alive.

Then we have a MB-808 - a 808 "clone" with analog sounds and a sequencer built around the uCapps Midibox core.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3d6U9ahh_E

Don't mind the sounds, they're just transistors, resistors and capacitors and are easy to dial in. I just tweaked sounds of an old Sound Master beatbox and got pretty damned kicking snare sound out of it.

The groove just is not there. This one sounds like a sample player.

What is funny is that my Roland R8 with the 808 card has some sort of a groove going on too, even with no feel patches enabled and everything quantized..

What's going on inside a TR-808? We have an analog tempo clock, that's one thing. We have a pretty slow-working interrupt clock on the CPU, and I very much suspect some interrupt inaccuracy is the major factor here. A part of the sounds may get triggered before the interrupt, part after the interrupt. Trigger pulses may vary or ring.

Whatever it is.. A TR-808 is a piece of art. :thumb:

I see it as one of the essential pieces of equipment if you run a studio and I have wanted to get a 808 for a while.

My brother has an E-mu SP1200 drum machine, it has its own groove too!
When he puts the midi notes in computer sequencer, we can see that every bars are never the same regarding the notes quantize.
Also, in point of view of quantizing, some swear that nothing swings better than an Atari 1040 ST with old cubase!

[quote author="keefaz"]My brother has an E-mu SP1200 drum machine, it has its own groove too!
When he puts the midi notes in computer sequencer, we can see that every bars are never the same regarding the notes quantize.
Also, in point of view of quantizing, some swear that nothing swings better than an Atari 1040 ST with old cubase![/quote]

Atari 1040 ST I used one of those 11 years ago and they are very reliable.

Man, I had an 808, and a 909 for years. I opened the 808, rather it was missing screws so it opened regularly!!! and it was filled with diodes.

also, my buddies who were famous rappers, "boom I got your girlfriend", (and yes in 90 they were quite famous) they showed me that the 808 tone shifts. at the beginning of the sound, it rises quickly to the note and then slowly drops in freq.

I sold both because everyone already had their sample that was on this or that record, and sampled from multis not mastered mixes. but they sure did have a sound.

*Some* 808s will let you perform a funny trick... Don't ask me how it works, and it's probably not good for the switches...but...

... on the switches that slide between 2 sounds, you can get them to stick in the middle, giving you a new hybrid sound!!

The trick doesn't make any sense to me, but I've seen it done.

IMHO, the 808 has to be a pretty serious contender for the finest analogue drum machine ever made. I believe it was brave of Roland to release a machine which had sounds that were so otherworldly - I doubt many OEMs would have the guts to release something so unusual today at that R+D point.

'Tis an obvious link, but very relevant: YooToob

I have an enormous amount of respect for Roland's designers from that era... Whatever happened to the company?


Justin

btw - I hope you guys saw this thread: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26893&highlight=drum+machines

btw - Don't bother answering my Q about Roland - it's a sign of the age in which we live... They're not the only once-great OEM to release cheeseball, sample-based imitations of their former products...

Viitalahde


I wish roland would reissue it, I would buy one.

I just found the user manual on the net with the PCB, I wish someone was interested in making a clone I would put my name down for a PCB.

Roland is crap these days. Early 90's were still good - they released pretty incredible instruments like the R8 and the JD-800.

The JD-800 is another insanely cool instrument. Digital synth with a slider for every function,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u-NRvo1ge5U

That's another piece I want to own some day..

Roland was really, really great, especially in the early 80's. The System 100M modular (which I have) is not a Moog or a Serge, but it's a compact, reliable instrument that just sounds good and solid.

I have a Jomox XBase09 (a 909 clone).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qSTMJ7Fzq4I

But I have not been able to use it to it's fullest potential because it has intermittent button action. They wore out from the previous owner.
I'm unable to find these lighted (LED, momentary contact , 6 pin) buttons, so I can replace them.



another view...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Midiot/DSCN1586.jpg


Here's a pic of the interior pc board. I only have a pic of the backside:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Midiot/DSCN1589.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Midiot/DSCN1581.jpg


=FB=

[quote author="Viitalahde"] Trigger pulses may vary or ring.
[/quote]

yeah i think so, actually those pulses are more than just "triggers"

[quote author="Viitalahde"]Roland is crap these days. Early 90's were still good - they released pretty incredible instruments like the R8 and the JD-800.

The JD-800 is another insanely cool instrument. Digital synth with a slider for every function,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u-NRvo1ge5U

That's another piece I want to own some day..

Roland was really, really great, especially in the early 80's. The System 100M modular (which I have) is not a Moog or a Serge, but it's a compact, reliable instrument that just sounds good and solid.[/quote]

When I had tasted their Atelier proprietary red wine, which was getting blown out at Trader Joe's for ten bucks (a steal), I went looking for information about the winery, Beckmen.

I e-mailed Tom Beckmen and had a cordial exchange and got an invitation to visit. It turns out he founded Roland and sold to the current Japanese owners some time ago. This allowed him to pursue winemaking.

I joked that I was going to complain that the piano sampled on my RD-500 was out-of-tune, but that I had realized that it was a post-Beckmen product.

His comment: "See what happens when you don't mind the store??" :razz:

I should start hanging around here more often :grin:

The only time I hear anything notable (ie: different than the mb808's I've built) is when the patten is being run at double time, and yes the MBSEQ at the heart of the MB808 is actually accurate... If you don't want it that way:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,10834.msg84162.html#msg84162



Mine is like this, and a "sample player" it sure isn't! YMMV tho.

As far as the trigger pulses ringing.. I doubt this is happening to the point where it would affect the triggering of the instruments, I don't believe the gates used are sensitive enough to respond to anything except some pretty drastic deformities in the pulse. Also, while working with the prototype I found that it was important that the accent and trigger pulses be very carefully aligned (within 1ms, in any case) otherwise you would occasionally miss an accent.. hence some doubt about sloppiness in the original system in places other than the timer circuit.