Happy 4th to our colonial brethren.

:thumb:

http://break.com/index/america-rules-england-sucks.html

Chortle chortle

Canada day was July 1st

And a belated Happy Birthday to CANADA.. :thumb:

:grin:

Thanks mate. :thumb:

I'm so-oooo lucky, being British and being in the USA on this date every year...

I get to hear "Woo-hoooo! -This is the day we kicked your asses!!!" from drunken people who usually think that they're the first to make that comment.... and who also usually also refer to the French as "surrender-monkeys".

-But inform them of the fact that the FRENCH were who won that particular war for them, and they frequently INSIST that you've got it all wrong...

I'm staying indoors with the doors locked, the phone unplugged and the blinds pulled down with all the lights off.

[quote author="Sir Ken Robinson"]Celebrating the date when you sent the Brits home???

...-but we've only just arrived!!![/quote]

Keith

1776 by David McCullough is a good read on the subject of that particular fight, and while he only writes about one year he paints a vivid picture of how it was.

I don't like to rely on luck, but we had more than a little on our side. I might argue the weather more than the French tipped the scale our way. Then as now, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but the revolution was not about GB being an enemy per se, support for the fight was not unanimous, but an oppressor who grew too onerous for most to tolerate. I suspect the French and any who aided us, and the mercs who fought on their side did it for their own reasons, as we fought for ours.

GB is probably our strongest ally and I hope we can live up to that honor. I suspect we're not very popular much of the time. Modern France, Germany, and Japan are also allies as we not only have common interests but we are, German, and French, and British, and ......

I wish more people could celebrate their independence today like we can.

As JFK said at the Berlin wall "Freedom is indivisible, and when one man is enslaved, all are not free." So there is still much that needs fixin.

It's almost cliche but we need to appreciate our soldiers all around the world. Freedom is not free...

JR

There is a story that has propagated through my Native American portion of heritage that tells of being paid for scalps by both the French AND English unknown to each other..

:green:

At least the Native Americans got something from the invaders..

:shock:

It's funny, back in those times the colonists rebel against the occupation from another government entity that thinks it knows what's best for the colony from the other side of the world.. We call them patriots.

Today, there are people rebelling against the occupation from another government entity that thinks it knows what's best for the country from the other side of the world. We call them terrorists.

The only difference is what side you are viewing from..

LMAO:
"For this forth of July, stop calling it tea and start calling it American Bag Water."

Thanks PP , we have been more loyal as a colony
anytime i am down south people think , I , have an British accent .
, still waiting for quebec to separate ..........................

[quote author="SSLtech"]I'm so-oooo lucky, being British and being in the USA on this date every year...

I get to hear "Woo-hoooo! -This is the day we kicked your asses!!!" from drunken people who usually think that they're the first to make that comment.... and who also usually also refer to the French as "surrender-monkeys".

-But inform them of the fact that the FRENCH were who won that particular war for them, and they frequently INSIST that you've got it all wrong...

I'm staying indoors with the doors locked, the phone unplugged and the blinds pulled down with all the lights off.

[quote author="Sir Ken Robinson"]Celebrating the date when you sent the Brits home???

...-but we've only just arrived!!![/quote]

Keith[/quote]

Actually, as usual, it was a whole lot more complicated than any of that. Unfortunately, most Americans have no idea what happened. Lots of stuff we were taught in school was only marginally correct and was often biased. The sins of omission were also great.

Yes, in the end (at Yorktown, VA), the French fleet helped trap Cornwallis' army and forced a surrender. Of course that was 1781 and it was two years later that the Revolution actually ended with the British withdrawal leaving a new independent state (or confederation of states) in place.

But what happened between 1775/6 and 1781? Lots. There were the campaigns in the middle Atlantic colonies, New England, and along the Canadian border in the early part of the war. Bunker Hill, Trenton, Germantown, Saratoga, Princeton, Monmouth, etc. These were the largest battles of the war, but after a couple of years, a stalemate had been reached and not much happened.

Meanwhile, in the southern colonies guerrilla tactics were being employed against the British and Loyalist forces. Men like Francis "The Swamp Fox" Marion, Thomas "The Gamecock" Sumter, and Isaac Shelby used their small local forces to harass the British in NC and SC.

In 1780 the British decided to shift to a new strategy in the southern colonies where they believed they would receive more support from Loyalists (Tories). Cornwallis shipped out to Charleston, SC with his army to execute the new plan. He took Charleston and promptly marched inland to Camden where he defeated the Revolutionaries led by Horatio Gates.

Cornwallis and Banastre "Bloody Ban" Tarleton then marched through SC and NC in a show of force, trying to bring the local militias to battle. Many skirmishes occurred during this time, but the tactics employed by the British and Loyalists inflamed the passions of the Whigs and turned many undecided and Loyalist locals against them. At Kings Mountain in northern SC, Patrick Ferguson's Loyalists were defeated and Ferguson was killed in the first major victory for the Whigs in the south.

Cornwallis then moved further south and with a contingent of Loyalists recruited and led by Tarleton, began marching through South Carolina in an attempt to bring the rebelling "armies" to battle and finally subdue the region.

Didn't happen. The Loyalists were not as numerous as expected. The rebels were quite determined. Several brilliant leaders managed to run Cornwallis out of SC, through NC, and into VA where he was trapped at Yorktown. It all began when Daniel Morgan, with a ragtag army beat the impetuous Tarleton at Cowpens, SC. This classic battle is studied in military institutions to this day. After Cowpens, the British retreated into NC and won a pitched battle at Guilford Courthouse, but the victory was hollow as the locals provided no support and the army was cutoff from supplies in distant Charleston, hence the move northward into VA. There were several other important battles in SC in 1781 including Eutaw Springs and Hobkirks Hill.

So Washington and his subordinates in the north fought a superior foe to a standstill in the early years. Then guerrilla leaders like Issac Shelby, Thomas Sumter, and Francis Marion along with generals Daniel Morgan and Nathaniel Green defeated the British in the south bringing it all to an end.

History is a great teacher. I've been to many of these places and have read everything I've been able to find about this fascinating period. If you're curious, let me know and I'll send a list of books...

A P

Thanks for the concise overview, appropriate to help us understand this day. (The 1776 book only covers that one year, but is very well written and not a dry history text. For any afraid of history.)

I fear too many people get their history from hollywood movies which are often presented with bias. Too many people get their news from late night monologues, and comedic news programs.

If we don't understand history how can we hold the modern world in any context? I believe it's part of our cave man wiring to think we understand things we really don't so we aren't distracted all the time. How much do we really know about the world around us?

IMO history is one of several things we should study more.

JR

No disagreement there, Mr. Roberts. Technology may advance, but basic human nature doesn't seem to move very quickly, so history is still very relevant. You would think that a nation born of revolution would better understand some of the conflicts in the Mid East, for instance.

I've read 1776. Not bad. If anyone is interested, I just noticed that The History Channel has temporarily switched back to actual history and is showing a multi-part series on the American Revolution. Looks pretty good.

A P

happy 'we didnt want it anymore but had to put up a bit of a fight to save face' day

:grin: :thumb: