(Analog) multitrack, overdubs and multiple takes

How are multiple takes of one track handled in a studio with an analog mutitrack tape recorder? Is there a convenient way to have several takes of, say, the lead vocal coexisting to later pick the one that fits best in the mix, or are you limited to keeping the last (overdubbed) take you recorded? Having never worked with anything other than a DAW where you have the luxury to save as many takes as the HDD will hold, I don't quite know how to get similar functionality with a traditional multitrack recorder.

Context: still working on the Portable Multitrack Recorder. When I started the project, I intended to use it in 'Record'-mode only: set it up at a concert, hit REC, wait for the concert to end, hit STOP, go home, get some sleep, mix. At the time I was doing mostly live recordings, and except for the very rare re-take that was all I needed. However, these days I find myself doing more and more studio-type recordings, albeit still often on location, and having the ability to (re-)record only one or two tracks becomes increasingly useful.

Problem is that disk drives are really just tape recorders with fast forward/rewind capability and a small buffer. My original plan - dumping all channels to one big file - matches this model really well, as the drive only has to write one stream of data to sequential sectors on the disk. Destructive overdubs would only be a bit harder, as I now have to pre-read sectors of the file, change only those samples that belong to active channels and re-write those sectors. Alas, non-destructive overdubs (with retention of the old data) leads to a jigsaw of files on the disk, with in the best case 'only' one file per track/channel. Still, this could lead to severe fragmentation and possibly dropouts due to the frantic seeking of the disk head. It's surprising how much difference this makes when recording 16 channels @ 24/96. Before fixing this the DAW way I wondered if there would be an easier solution.

(On the gripping hand: I wonder how often I would need more than two takes per track/channel: the latest version, and the best version so far. I have on occasion gone through a few dozen takes of a track while mixing, but that time even the artists and the composer had trouble distinguishing between the 'best' and the 'latest' mixes).

JDB
[almost 4AM, can't sleep. On re-reading I see I'm even less coherent than normal. Sorry about that.]

It's easy, you just record the second take on another track and the third again on yet another track, so each take will occupy one tape track, if you've got 24 tracks, it won't take long to fill them!

If you find yourself running out of tracks, you may have to mix down some tracks onto less tracks, for example if you recorded drums onto 8 tracks, you could mix down and record back on to two tracks. Please note that to keep it all in sync, the drums would have to playback off the record head for the mix, with maybe not so optimal performance. You can then re-record over the original drum tracks. Remember though it is destructive, no undo on tape and once mixed, your stuck with it.

Michael

Even though I record digitally, I still find myself using the method that Junction mentioned. It's just plain easier to A/B stuff quickly. I know that some tracking programs offer simple "one click" A/B within the same track but not all, so I keep doing it the old fashioned way, which I consider safer than trying to figure it out with a band standing over your shoulder.

[quote author="jdbakker"]
[almost 4AM, can't sleep. On re-reading I see I'm even less coherent than normal. Sorry about that.][/quote]

Your incoherent is a lot of other peoples' lucid. Although I'm not getting the "gripping hand" thing just yet :grin:

old school method for overdubs is 4 open tracks, record 3 takes and build a good track by bouncing good lines and phrases using the faders and mutes back through the routing matrix to the 4 th track. then do 2 more good takes, build a good track bouncing again to the 3rd track and then do 1 more good take. if you cant build the keeper, you're not done and start over. this method requires absolute decision making on the spot and that is why DAW punks dont like it. you are trying to make a fantastic "master" tape, not a collection of crap that might make a record if you cull from dozens of OK takes later at some point in the future.

[OT]Stating the obvious: we're all aware that - if possible - we have to set ourselves a max number of allowable attempts, right ? :wink: From a certain point on it's time to get a better rehearsed player or replace him/her altogether for someone that slams down a fresh happening & believable take in one go.[/OT]

In my tape days I only had 16 tracks ("only"!). When it came to vocal tracking I mostly had already 14 tracks full. There were not enough tracks to record heaps of additional takes. So what I did was to learn to punch in and out very precise to get around with only a few tracks for all vocals.
Today I still do like risky punches :grin:

I still do that with a daw! I setup markers to punch in/out manually so that I don't have to do excessive muting.