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Emperor-TK

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,076
Location
NJ, USA
I need a new laptop and am considering getting my first Mac. I could probably google for days on the subject, but if I can get a couple of quick questions answered, that would help get me started.

1) One button mice are out of the question for me. It would be like voluntarily walking with only one leg. Are there any workarounds for the Apple laptop touchpads? Maybe a tap touch zone that emulates a right click? I move my laptop around a lot and don't want to have to use an external mouse.

2) I will need to run a dual boot with XP. Are there multiple options for that? How easy is it to setup? Does it work well?

Any good links on the subject would be appreciated too.

Thanks,
Chris
 
You can "right click" by control-clicking the touchpad. Also, cmd-click usually has other functions, for example open a page in a new browser tab. I don't think you'll miss the right click unless you get an apple mouse. And even then, I think if you click the mouse with your finger on the scroll wheel it has a different effect than simple click, which you may be able to designate as right click in preferences. only used one a couple of times so not too sure about that last bit.

Dual boot works with what they call boot camp. Holding down a button during boot brings up an OS selection. I think you can even triple boot with linux if that's your thing. You can also run Windows within an emulating software life VMware Fusion or Parallels Desktop, but in my experience it doesn't work too well. I mean it works if you need to open a file that is windows only, but if you need to have the full power of the computer dedicated to Windows I'd go with the Boot camp option.

google boot camp, first link.
 
Thanks Mitsos. One handed touch-padding would be preferred, but maybe I can get used to the control-clicks. Two more questions:

3) My current HP laptop can't display full screen (17" wide screen) video from iTunes without stuttering, and it has a 64MB video card upgrade. Will this be a problem with the cheaper Macbooks? I don't see any video card specs for them. I also do occasional video editing. Would a Macbook Pro be recommended?

4) How are right clicks handled when running Windows?
 
hey brotha'

i have a little macG4 laptop.

they are rock solid that's for sure.

you can run a regular pc mouse and right click with it. there may be a driver you have to load, but i have a friend that has a pc mouse, and he right clicks all the time on his mac.

secondly....get a newer mac with intel chipset, as it's alot easier to have dual os on them. you just have to repartition your drive when you first get it. i setup a new mac tower a while back and repartitioned it so that i could have 2 different os's.

good luck
 
There is a recent Electronic Musician article that goes through one person's initial dual boot experiences. Should be online.
I am totally happy with a 12" powerbook for the last 2 years with only OSX boot. I plug a 3 button mouse and a big flatscreen if I need to do big spreadsheets or CAD.
A tower PC does all the Win things I need to do, which are dwindling in the last year. . .
Mike
 
Hi Chris,

Unless there is a specific reason you need to dual boot, consider using a VMware fusion. It allows you to run windows as if it were mac application. The great benefit of this is that you can run both OSX and XP without having to reboot, go back and forth from both quickly using expose (I have a mouse button programmed for this so I can toggle back and forth quickly).

Another benefit of using fusion is that it allows you the safety of never having to use Internet Exploder or do any internet surfing on the XP side. You can always use OSX for all internet tasks and just run windows to run windows-only applications.
 
I been rocking an Intel mac book laptop since they first came out. I use boot camp. Here are some of the things I noticed.

For starters any regular 2 button mouse works on a mac. Mac's themselves usually will not come with it out of the box. You can achieve the right button action with the regular track pad/mouse on the power book. you can hold the control button and then click and you will get that right button action.

Secondly there are a few ways to get windows on the macs. I use boot camp as it is free. It partitions your hard drive and allows you to install XP on to one of the partitions. You must have a valid XP install although I know people using cracked XP's and it works as good as the crack does. I have never noticed an issue running either XP or OSX on my mac book. I mainly use the windows side for wavelab, a few other audio apps and DIY needed software. It's fairly rock solid.

I never ever use the windows side for internet. However if I did and I caught a virus or something the only thing that is harmed is that partition which can be erased and reformatted at any time.
 
I have a wireless USB mouse with 2 buttons and a button wheel and runs on 2 AA cells.
No issues.
VMFusion for sure, and surf, write create and design Mac / specific tech on PC,
but I almost always spend my time in mac land.
 
Don't forget too that if you are using Mac OS on a Mac laptop scrolling is effortless, you just swipe 2 fingers. Once you get used to that you will never want to use another trackpad.
 
[quote author="Steve Jones"]Don't forget too that if you are using Mac OS on a Mac laptop scrolling is effortless, you just swipe 2 fingers. Once you get used to that you will never want to use another trackpad.[/quote]

No you get frustrated at the Panasonic Toughbooks you have to use at work..

I picked up a Bluetooth mouse for $25 thats tinny. I use the hell out of it with my mac. You do want to get one with tilt wheels so you can scroll left right and up and down in large pictures are bad designed web sites.

I use Parellels and bootcamp.

If I need a full blown PC I boot into it. If I just want to open something up for a moment I'll use the parrellels.

You really have 2 options with the XP/Vista on a mac. Boot camp and VM ware type.

Bootcamp is part of os 10.5. There is different types and products of VM ware, and you can ask around for one that will suite you, as I believe there is 3-5 vendors for it.
 
I have an iBook, and run Windows XP inside of Parallels, runs dang fast.

I looked at PC laptops, and none came close in terms of hardware design compared to the mac.

I use a bluetooth three button mouse for when I need it.

go there, don't look back =)

ju
 
[quote author="Emperor-TK"]1) One button mice are out of the question for me. It would be like voluntarily walking with only one leg. Are there any workarounds for the Apple laptop touchpads? Maybe a tap touch zone that emulates a right click? I move my laptop around a lot and don't want to have to use an external mouse.[/quote]

Right clicking on the trackpad is as easy as placing two fingers down and clicking the button. IMO it's actually a lot easier than having to reach for the right button on PC laptops. The newest MBPs and the MB Air have multitouch trackpads. The extra gestures are quite handy.

Almost any mouse will work with the Mac in both OSX and Windows. I use a Logitech MX Revolution at home and a VX Nano on the road. Don't get the Mighty Mouse; it's really uncomfortable, and you have to lift your index finger in order to right click.

Two highly recommended utilities for OSX: SteerMouse and MultiClutch. They allow global and application-specific actions to be set for all mouse buttons and trackpad gestures.

Two unfortunate things about the trackpad in Boot Camp: two-finger scrolling is too sensitive and the multitouch gestures are not all available. I usually use a mouse while in Boot Camp, so this isn't too much of a problem.
 
[quote author="Emperor-TK"]
3) My current HP laptop can't display full screen (17" wide screen) video from iTunes without stuttering,...Will this be a problem with the cheaper Macbooks?[/quote]

In a word, no. iTunes has a bad rep for acting up on windows machines.

[quote author="Emperor-TK"]
I don't see any video card specs for them. I also do occasional video editing. Would a Macbook Pro be recommended?[/quote]

Macbooks use onboard video. An Intel chip which shares your RAM memory. So I guess it depends on how occasional your video editing is. And how involved. Don't expect to efficiently edit HD. While they may be able to (I never tried) it would take forever. I have however run VJ software live using this computer with 1+GB video files and it worked great, so the video processor is not terrible. For any intensive video I'd look at a MBP though.

[quote author="Emperor-TK"]
4) How are right clicks handled when running Windows?[/quote]

I haven't used bootcamp in a while, but I believe it is the command key on the right of the spacebar along with a trackpad click. (The left CMD button becomes the windows button IIRC). To me, it's not as nice as in OSX since I am right handed, but it works. Maybe you can reassign keys; I haven't tried.

All in all, they are pretty nice computers, unless you get a lemon. They are pricey (almost double the $$ of a comparable PC) but you have obviously weighed your options already. Just make sure whatever software/hardware you use is compatible before you jump.

Apple gives discounts for education, so find a student or teacher to buy it for you (unless you are one?). It's summer so they have their yearly buy an apple for college get an ipod sale. Sell the ipod on ebay and get a real discount.
 
If you can use Final Cut Pro and a SMPTE sync camera like a DVCAM or HD
you can log at lower res a ton of stuff , edit it, then when it's all in place
tell it to relog the footage at HD bandwidth and re-render it.
Speed and power.

I do some pretty hefty shows with lots of effects from time to time.
Not as fast as a truely dedicated hardware card JUST for rendering,
but no where NEAR the cost either. Serious processing is big bucks.
But not needed unless you are doing HBO intros and trailers.
 
I want to pick up a new MacBook Pro but am waiting on the next generation.
The new track pad sounds interesting.
My old ibook is doing a good job right now but I wanna get a laptop with more oomph for more serious live audio applications.
 
Thanks guys, this has been very helpful.

>>>I looked at PC laptops, and none came close in terms of hardware design compared to the mac.

Jon, this is interesting, can you elaborate?

>>>Right clicking on the trackpad is as easy as placing two fingers down and clicking the button.

This is the first suggestion that really works for me. I'm glad there is this option.

>>>They are pricey (almost double the $$ of a comparable PC).

I am finding this to be literally true. I've decided that I don't want to give up my 17" screen and number pad. I can get an HP 17" with better specs for $1400. As Jon mentioned, there might still be other hardware factors that makes the Mac superior, but that's a big price difference. The 17" MBP costs $2600 with an academic discount, $2800 without. I can also load the HP with a second hard drive down the line for 640 Gigs of on-board storage at 5400RPM. I'm currently using an external drive for storing 300gigs of multimedia.

Now I just have to weigh how much I don't want to go with Vista. There is also another very strong point that the Mac has that the HP doesn't, a matte screen option. I absolutely hate the fact that glossy screens have taken over about 80% of PC laptops. God forbid that you even have a candle lit behind you, the "signal to noise ratio" becomes intolerable for me. I could still find a PC with XP and a matte screen, but my choices are much more limited (mostly bare bones business machines without discrete video).

Again, thanks for all the input, I'll post back with what I decide on.

-Chris
 
One other point.

I have owned 17 Apple or NeXt machines and owned 2-3 PC
and worked with many many more PC machines.

In my personal experience the PC's crash MUCH harder,
And more frequently. And are MUCH harder to recover from.

This last one is the deal breaker for me.,
Crash a PC lose all your data not backed up. Ground up rebuild.
Crash a mac and pull out the reinstall disc and put the system back on.
It caches the old system and uses it ti help set up the new one.
Bestnof all, usually ALL data and apps are right where you left it,
intact and ready top use. MAJOR good news.

Sure you can have a disc fly apart, and I have lost data on Mac's.
but not in the same way nor same frequency.

I have lost, conservatively, $20,000US from PC crashes
that ruined work or lost jobs outright or lost clients permanently.

Maybe $400-600 for the same reasons for Macs.
They are much kinder crashes, and if you don't overload
them with little crap programs they rarely crash at all.

They are MUCH friendlier work environments for creatives.
They are weak in certain technical apps like SPICE and PCB layout etc
But you can run them on bootcamp and VM Fusion.

I do know people with multi PC personal networks running web apps
and shopping systems and rarely having down time etc.
But I also see them having a lot of maintainance chores
and web weapon watch outs too.
I just never wanted the hassle or risk, and was willing to
pay for that peace of mind.

But get what you like.
 
hmm I've owned 2 macs and 4 PCs since 1993. Yes I've made due with 4 PCs. I just upgrade the ram and video system every other year and keep on trucking..

I had some somesoftware crashes with win 95 but ultimately it was always my fault for tinkering around with the OS and buying cheap upgrades that always seemed to have crap drivers.

I've never had a software crash with win2k or XP but I have had a few powersupplies die after YEARS of continuous service, one motherboard failure and 2 harddrives but I bought cheap and that's what I get.

I've figured hardware out for PCs, buy decent powersupplies(with warranties) and buy Seagate harddrives. Most motherboards are good enough these days.

Above all, they are cheap and parts are plentiful as well as the driver base being much much better than it used to be.

Now for the Mac side of things.

They do crash. My old one did it but again it was my fault. It ran for years as well. I couldn't upgrade the hardware then but you can now for big$$. The OS doesn't let you do much (unless you like doing FreeBSD scripting) which is actually a good thing for most people because it keeps them from being able to tinker and screw up their OS much like I used to do before I learned better. It finally died, the powersupply just like a Windows box, but it cost too much to fix so I just did without. As Animatic said, it was weaker for processing things than a winbox so I just did without it and didn't really miss it much.

After being compelled to return to a Mac for certain things that you just can't do otherwise, (like use devices that were designed specifically for usage with a Mac and nothing else.. :roll: ) I did a lot of research on used macs and found a huge bunch of problems that people were having, mainly with the laptops but with some of the more trendy desktops(that use the laptop hardware internally) as well. After working on my G4 Ibooks a number of times to get them running, I realized that while the design was decent, the build quality was terrible. It looks great on the outside but at the board level I'm surprised that they last as long as they do.. But apparently not since most of the ibook owners I read about and have since run in to complained about their laptops dying all the time.

It seems that the "pro" stuff is better quality, the cost is certainly a concern now that the hardware is essentially the same. Back when Motorola was supplying the processors there was no question that intel/AMD beat the pants off of Apple in every benchmark but now that Apple uses intel, there isn't much difference but the price and OS.

So it really boils down to what OS you want to use these days, not processing power(unless you want to go AMD and get real processing power.. :green: ). It's still too early to tell if the intel based macs will last, I figure in the next year or so we'll either start seeing failures.. or not.
 
Wow...lots of opinions here. But, unless I missed something, we haven't heard much about what Chris will be doing with his new laptop. Other than watching movies, which he mentioned. Seems kind of important to understand the intended use cases first, does it not?

FWIW, I just bought my first laptop a couple of months ago. I needed to run Linux, but wanted XP (no Vista for me, thank you) for several apps (REAPER primarily). I ended up with a 15.4" Toshiba with Intel Core2Duo 7250, 120G, upgraded to 2G RAM, blah blah.

I repartitioned in place using an Ubuntu 8.x (Hardy Heron) disc that came with a copy of Linux Format magazine that I picked up at Borders. After a small amount of hassle on the repartitioning, I easily installed Ubuntu and now have a nice dual boot system. Linux has come a long way in almost 20 years.

So, my question comes back to what you plan to use the thing for?

A P

p.s. I had assumed that all LCD monitors were matte finish anti-glare. I mean, who wouldn't do that simple step, right? Wrong! Damned glossy screen is a PITA. That's the only thing I hate about my Toshiba LT. :evil:
 
As someone previous mentioned, I find that installing lots of BS software to do "this and that" greatly increases the instability of an operating system. My PC laptop (Toshiba Tecra) locks up typically once a week, but I do have a lot of software installed for my job and some these programs do not play nice together.

On the other hand, I use my MacPro (Dual 2.xGHz with 4GB memory) in the studio and there are only two programs I installed; ProTools and Office for Mac. I don't even have this computer regularly connected to my network. I don't do the automatic Apple updates, but I have connected to the internet to do manual updates. This computer has never choked up, frozen, or crashed.

My point... keep your play computer with little gadgets and work/business computer seperate. And I'm not a fan of futzing with a computer hoping to squeeze every ounce of performance out of it.

I've never had a computer "bomb" on me... i.e. never experienced a crash that wiped out my hard drive. :guinness:
 
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