RC4580 vs NJM4560 vs M5218 vs OPA2134 etc

Hi All, I have a number of pieces of equipment (sony cd player, DMP3 and so on) that use M5218 and NJM4560 in SIP packages. I'm looking into the idea of replacing them with a SIP adaptor and something like the OPA134/2134 or another newer opamp.

TI Has the RC4580 as a NJM4560 replacement as well.

I was wondering if you all had any comments of the sound of these opamps (M5218, NJM4560 and RC4560).

THe OPA 2134 is a step up in most cases. Next question is what other than the OPA is a good opamp to look at.

Thanks, Ethan

As always, it's completely subjective, but here's a couple sites on opamps and their opinions

http://tangentsoft.net/audio/opamps.html
http://www.intensemetal.com/~aortizjr/Info/opamps

dave

I like the LT1355/1358 most times over the opa3124. If you need a bjt input, the op270 is a nice sounding option. I haven't tried any of the newest TI jobs yet that are supposed to be excellent.

Thanks foro the links to those sites - I've seen them before. The NJM are never rated very worthy.

I am using the LT1358 for upgrades to my Tascam MS16 - now why did I not include them in this question... I guess it is the SIP that got me off in the weeds.

I'll have to try them out.

Thanks - Ethan

What upgrades are you doing to the Tascam? We've got one and I hadn't really considered tweaking it.

It's said that NJM4580 is what creates signature blehringer sound. I replaced those in my motu 828 with LM4562, sound improved remarkably. :thumb:
I'm not an opamp expert, but it looks like LM4562 is the newest opamp out there, correct me if I'm wrong.

Please don't blame opamps for the Behringer sound.

I have here a Studer 961 mixer - one of the most transparent boards I've heard, loved by classical engineers.... - and stuffed with 4559's and 4560's (although 5534's and such are also used where appropriate)

It's not the opamp, it's how it's used.

In a good design, your improvement will be marginal when just swapping opamps.

Sometimes sonics will even change change for the worse, if the circuit was designed by someone that really got the best out of a certain opamp design.

Jakob E.

[quote author="skipwave"]What upgrades are you doing to the Tascam? We've got one and I hadn't really considered tweaking it.[/quote]

Upgrades are changing the bias feed cap to allow biasing for +9 tapes (499,gp9 etc), Some cap and feedback resistors to wima and dale-vishey and opamp upgrade.

regards, Ethhan

[quote author="jackies"]It's said that NJM4580 is what creates signature blehringer sound. I replaced those in my motu 828 with LM4562, sound improved remarkably. :thumb:
I'm not an opamp expert, but it looks like LM4562 is the newest opamp out there, correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote]

I only have one piece of Behringer gear (an ultragain preamp without the tube). I was impressed with the look inside. I expected less quality based on their reputation but found quality components.

It really does point out that the design sets the sound. Poor design, poor IC = poor sound (or just the right junk sound) - poor design, great IC = poor sound.....

I bought the pre for the case (I could put a jensen twin servo I'm building in it) I expect to pull the Beheringer marked chips and pull the tops off them to look at the die. Should be able to find out what devices they are from that. (I spent a fair time looking through a microscope at die when I worked for Intel.)

--Ethan

PS thanks for the new to me device!

You could go on all day about OpAmps. A lot of it depends on the design and the surrounding components. There are issues with the sonic improvements, stability, etc. You also have to consider supply voltages and such too.

Also, many of the opamps in a device may not even be related directly to the audio (ie. LED driver or sidechain/inserts).

But the NJM4580 you will see in a lot more places than just Behringer.

Anyway every swap will be gear specific. So I would just buy a few or pick up some samples. Then put sockets in. Then just experiment.

Or look around for other folks that have done mods and posted their results for specific pieces.

Also "best" is extremely subjective, especially when you get into the "higher-end"/uncommon category and price range. But you will see lots of great gear with NE5532's, TL0xx, JRC458x. And with a good design, you can get great sound out of those.

OK, I'll eat my words. I pulled the PCB on the Behringer preamp and replaced the quad opamps with sockets. Let's talk thin traces, single sided and no through hole plating. I only lifted one trace in the process but that was my fault in that I installed thhe socket backwards and needed to remove it. Too much abuse for the PCB.

Just made very cheaply without any thought to repair. No deposit, no return.

But that brings us back to the opamps. These are Behringer marked chips that fit industry standard pinouts. Work fine with a number of other quads.

I have pulled the cover off one of the devices to see if I can find any marking. I only got a partial exposure to the die. That darned epoxy sticks fast to Silicone dioxide and gold. Like I say, no markings on the part that I exposed. I'll do the next one to see if I get more realestate exposed.

What I'm doing is trying to see a device type in the die so as to know what they were using. Kinda Don Quixote....

Regards, Ethan

aortizjr said:

You could go on all day about OpAmps.  A lot of it depends on the design and the surrounding components.  There are issues with the sonic improvements, stability, etc. You also have to consider supply voltages and such too.

Also, many of the opamps in a device may not even be related directly to the audio (ie. LED driver or sidechain/inserts).

But the NJM4580 you will see in a lot more places than just Behringer.

Anyway every swap will be gear specific. So I would just buy a few or pick up some samples. Then put sockets in. Then just experiment.

Or look around for other folks that have done mods and posted their results for specific pieces.

Also "best" is extremely subjective, especially when you get into the "higher-end"/uncommon category and price range. But you will see lots of great gear with NE5532's, TL0xx, JRC458x.  And with a good design, you can get great sound out of those.

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