josh

Building an Amp/Head combo?
« on: January 23, 2009, 09:20:28 PM »
What's up everyone?
My brothers so is getting to be an old man!  At his ripe age of 15 he is listening to stuff like Slayer, Metallica (older), Iron Maiden, all the great old stuff I listened to when I was his age and I think that's totally awesome.  He is learning to play the real guitar now instead of just playing guitar hero, which he also does alot.
So I let him borrow my Rat and chorus pedals and I told him that if he learns to play either Creeping Death or Master of Puppets reasonably well, I would build him an amp and head.  The only problem is that I've never done this. I've build plenty of other things so I'm sure I can do this too.

Can one of you point me to a place that has parts, designs, schematics, reviews, and things of that nature so I can strart looking into this?

please and thank you.
Thanks,
Josh


Svart

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 09:56:52 PM »
just make him play some Emperor songs, both guitar harmonies in perfect time.

You'll never have to build a thing..   ;D
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

Davo

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 11:00:01 PM »
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits.htm

Mostly tube amps here.... he's sellin em as kits, but when you click on an amp, you'll find the schemo and dummy layouts under the price

josh

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 12:00:46 AM »
Dunno bout no emperor, but Godspeed You Black Emperor have been on hiatus entirely toooooo long!

and I think Efrim plays alot with a screwdriver  L:)
Thanks,
Josh

PRR

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 01:59:38 AM »
> ripe age of 15 ... I would build him an amp and head.

He's plenty old enough to build his own amp, with just a little oversight from Uncle Josh.

> Slayer, Metallica (older), Iron Maiden

Crap like that, high-Baroque screwdriver-plucked amp-hammering, he can buy a ready-made amp, cheaper, with more knobs and doohickeys, LOUDER, than any hand-made amp you two would finish.

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 08:09:57 PM »
>>>Emperor

>>>....Emperor

Someone called???  :D 

Do a Marshall JCM/JMP 2204 with him.  Lot's of layouts on the web (Weber, Ceriatone, Hoffman, etc.)  Maiden still had a real guitar sound (before the I have more gain than you, super clipped, smiley faced, can-of-bees, false-metal sound took over).  He'll need something organic sounding to pull off Aces High...   ;D


josh

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 09:48:39 PM »
He's plenty old enough to build his own amp, with just a little oversight from Uncle Josh.

That's not something I have the time for, and people say that alot, but lemme 'splain.  After work (and I work more than 40 every week) I spend that time with my family (sometimes by myself with them because my wife works 3-4 night a week).  All the kids are at varying ages where if you spend time away from them you feel guilty, like you might miss something.  You know?  Like the other day, my middle one, a beautiful girl named Delaney who is 5 years old and really likes karate and spiderman (how cool), lost her first tooth and then the second one within 5 days of one another.  The bottom front 2.  The entire experience was amazing and we definitely became closer with one another in terms of trust.  There's no way I'm going to miss something like that.

With that in mind, I wont be able to supervise this build (I have to supervise people at work for cripes sake).  Plus this would be my first project of this sort and I want to do it meself :)  I think I could make a really cool amp cabinet out of brushed aluminum here and there with brass or bronze corner trimming here and there.  I really like the look of aluminum with brass.  I've been thinking about the deisgn a little bit and I'm kinda excited!

When I get a rough draft sketched, I'll post some jpegs here for y'all to comment on, see what you think.  I'm sure many of you have some do's and dont's stuck in your noodle about building a big ole speaker box.  I'd be more than happy to hear anything you have to offer and discuss it at length.  I've been extremely talkative (typeative) lately.

I think the Ruler fella above this is saying the write words....  Marshall....  sounds like a winner me.  When I watch Gear-wire reviews they are usually using a Marshall JCM xxx and I think that's what I want to build.  Is that something anyone could even help me with for fear of bringing down the wrath of Marshall?  I'm going to email them and ask them, see what they say.  You'd be surprised.  Some companies out there actually have a moral foundation they stand on that takes precedence over money.  Owner and presidents who see the importance of individual creation.  Something I feel as a base need.  The desire to create.  Here I ramble... there's work to be done!!!!
Thanks,
Josh

josh

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 09:57:27 PM »
Starting off with my first questions.

Supppose I wanted to build something not too small, not a gigantic stack, just a nice size box that would hold maybe a single 10" or 12" or maybe even 15" speakers Does that sound ok?  Or would something like 2 x 12" be better?

That being said what size should the box that holds the speakers be, and should I make the head controls part of the speaker box?  Is that what you call the "head"?  I'm not familiar with amps at all.  I remember seeing eq, presense control, reverb control if I use a spring tank, stuff like that.  This is the head right?

Like this one.

pretty standard stuff, but most amps have the same controls on them too.  So what's the deal?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 10:01:24 PM by josh »
Thanks,
Josh

pucho812

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 10:25:12 PM »
The worst to building an amp be it a head with a speaker cab or a combo is the cabinet construction. Do yourself a favor and save the time and buy a pre-built cabinet. Then you can fill it whatever you wish. I have built a few amps for people before and used these cabs. Can't beat the price versus the time it would have taken me.

http://www.lopoline.com/home.html
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

josh

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 11:49:21 PM »
Pucho, if I tell you that I really do prefer to build my own encolsures and boxes for my DIY projects and that my resume of successfull woodworking projects includes the following......

-6' x 14' treehouse platform that is 6 1/2 feet off the ground, with a house that is about 6' x 10' and a staircase that wraps aroundthe tree on the way down.
-14 x 36 x 36 oak bookshelf for my grandpa for x-mas
-built a 4 drawer cabinet between the stove and the fridge out of poplar
-I suppose the 11 wood frames I built for my bass traps counts as a project too
-about 6" x 24" x 8" tall enclosure for my Soundlabs minisynth
-I am currently re building the cabinet that is under the sink in the upstairs bathroom.  It's about 24 x 48 or so and did only have 2 big ole doors, I redid the face frame to allow for 4 drawers on either side and 2 doors in the center.  I am currently making the faces for the drawers and have the doors already finished.  I would post pics if my website werent down for awhile because the way I cut the wood wiht the grains are running perpendicular to one another and the center opening is a piece of scotch-brited aluminum that I bought some really big headed stainless pan head screws so I could position in a 2 x 3 array on the piece of aluminum.  While I was doing that I decided to trim the shower enclosure I installed a few years back with some 1/8 x 1 1/2" aluiminum flat bar across the top and angle down the sides that I scotch-brited and then I punched some holes because I wanted to also pretty it up with some brass pan headed screws with a flat headed screwdriver slot all facing the same direction.

On top of all that I am a design engineer at a steel shop where I was able to get the aluminum trim for free because I just allocated it to one of my jobs.  So I design and project manage the builing of steel (mostly) shipping racks for automotive parts (mostly) as my day job.  Years back when I first became supervisor for the prototype department I took it upon myself to work on the floor with my #1 builder for about 6 months.  He taught me how to weld, run & setup the iron worker, the brake press, the shear, the tube bender, the bundle cutting saws, as well as any and all things related to building this stuff I was deisgning for them.  Like laying stuff out, grinding down my crappy welds, etc...
Since that point my company has grown and we have appropriated a machine shop of which I am capable of running the manual mill and lathes, but not the machining centers.  We also have a 48 x 120 CNC High Definition Plasma (hi deg is almost as good as a laser) which cuts up to 1.5" thick steel.


......would you believe me when I say that I think I can build a nice enclosure for this amp.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 11:53:19 PM by josh »
Thanks,
Josh


okgb

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 10:14:08 AM »
Woodwork is a whole other aspect but

MORE RESEARCH other than here
will go a long way
rent one for a day and take measurments & Pics of the layout
way better than casual comments

no way around the transformer cost adding up unless you found
an old p.a. amp to mod instead , but that won't look pretty ,
maybe retro , but could work fine
GKB Audio / Greg Boboski

ward

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2009, 01:26:20 PM »

sahib

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 01:38:33 PM »

> Slayer, Metallica (older), Iron Maiden

Crap like that, high-Baroque screwdriver-plucked amp-hammering, he can buy a ready-made amp, cheaper, with more knobs and doohickeys, LOUDER, than any hand-made amp you two would finish.

LMBO

Sorry. Couldn't help.

pucho812

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 02:50:51 PM »
Pucho, if I tell you that I really do prefer to build my own encolsures and boxes for my DIY projects and that my resume of successfull woodworking projects includes the following......

-6' x 14' treehouse platform that is 6 1/2 feet off the ground, with a house that is about 6' x 10' and a staircase that wraps aroundthe tree on the way down.
-14 x 36 x 36 oak bookshelf for my grandpa for x-mas
-built a 4 drawer cabinet between the stove and the fridge out of poplar
-I suppose the 11 wood frames I built for my bass traps counts as a project too
-about 6" x 24" x 8" tall enclosure for my Soundlabs minisynth
-I am currently re building the cabinet that is under the sink in the upstairs bathroom.  It's about 24 x 48 or so and did only have 2 big ole doors, I redid the face frame to allow for 4 drawers on either side and 2 doors in the center.  I am currently making the faces for the drawers and have the doors already finished.  I would post pics if my website werent down for awhile because the way I cut the wood wiht the grains are running perpendicular to one another and the center opening is a piece of scotch-brited aluminum that I bought some really big headed stainless pan head screws so I could position in a 2 x 3 array on the piece of aluminum.  While I was doing that I decided to trim the shower enclosure I installed a few years back with some 1/8 x 1 1/2" aluiminum flat bar across the top and angle down the sides that I scotch-brited and then I punched some holes because I wanted to also pretty it up with some brass pan headed screws with a flat headed screwdriver slot all facing the same direction.

On top of all that I am a design engineer at a steel shop where I was able to get the aluminum trim for free because I just allocated it to one of my jobs.  So I design and project manage the builing of steel (mostly) shipping racks for automotive parts (mostly) as my day job.  Years back when I first became supervisor for the prototype department I took it upon myself to work on the floor with my #1 builder for about 6 months.  He taught me how to weld, run & setup the iron worker, the brake press, the shear, the tube bender, the bundle cutting saws, as well as any and all things related to building this stuff I was deisgning for them.  Like laying stuff out, grinding down my crappy welds, etc...
Since that point my company has grown and we have appropriated a machine shop of which I am capable of running the manual mill and lathes, but not the machining centers.  We also have a 48 x 120 CNC High Definition Plasma (hi deg is almost as good as a laser) which cuts up to 1.5" thick steel.


......would you believe me when I say that I think I can build a nice enclosure for this amp.

I stand corrected...
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Curtis

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 03:54:24 PM »
More Marshall schematics than you can poke a blunt midget at...

http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm
--------------------
http://www.thethirdending.com
--------------------

RAM

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2009, 04:29:01 PM »
Seeing as you're in America. Try www.metroamp.com. He does marshall kits and amp parts. Plus has wiring guides, layouts and schematic.

I sure wish I had your woodworking skills. It would save me quite a bit of money.

Rob

PRR

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 02:49:01 AM »
> maybe a single 10"

The bands you mention didn't get where they got with a one-Ten cab. That wasn't enough when the WHO were starting out. Big sound needs big air-slappers.

> fear of bringing down the wrath of Marshall?

Marshall started by building pretty-near copies of Fenders, with UK parts, avoiding UK import taxes on US gear. While there are differences, and Marshall has produced many different things, most of their stuff does not fall that far from Fender's tree.

And Fender: most of a Fender is descended from W.E. papers filtered through RCA and GE tube manuals. The classic 12AX7 100K 1.5K stage found all through Fenders and Marshalls and 95% of all tube guitar amps is taken directly from a GE datasheet.

Gibson was in the racket even sooner, and always followed their own course, but the differences are a matter of slant, not topology.

I'd thought the Fender Long-Tail was novel in its details, but recently found a Premier using the same plan built when Leo was still fixing radios, long before his LTP amps appeared.

Fender had several Tremolo patents, most never commercialized, all the classics long-expired.

The first couple SUNNs -were- DynaKits repackaged in nauga-skin.

Ampeg also had their own designs, but the best Ampeg amp I know, the "good" channel -is- the same GE values that Fender used.

Everybody used everybody else's ideas. They had to: there isn't anything really new in audio.

You will not get in trouble making one copy of a commercial tube amp's schematic, even using the same parts layout. Many boutique builders sell obvious copies of classic amps.

You may not go so far that it would confuse customers. "Confusion" is something lawyers and judges can argue endlessly.... just don't go there. You build a Josh amp, with "Josh" in different script than Fender or Marshall or Gibson use, dressed-up your way and not based on someone else's trade-dress.

There IS a thin line here. Especially since many 1950s classics are "reappearing" as "re-issues" from the same-name company. An uncle-nephew project is unlikely to draw attention.

Look at http://www.tedweber.com/ go to Amp Kits, and you probably want "Classic 60's British". You will see the difference head cab combo, you will get a general idea of cost and complexiy and size. And, if you care, you see how he can hint at classic Brands/Models without stepping on toes. It may even be worth getting a Weber kit as a starter. Weber's kits tend to be very cost-competitive, meaning sometimes the parts are a buck cheaper than the parts you would prefer to use. But his chassis and irons are fine, and the little stuff is always fodder for tinkering and upgrading.

okgb

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 08:00:45 AM »
I had to stop using my 4x12 when no one would help
at the end of the night [ when i had one ]

More speakers spread the sound out nicer
not so point source  [ still if you point the 4x12
anywhere near the soundman you won't be in the mix ]
So either 2x12 or 4x12 , the 2x with a head will be easier
to lug around , careful not to go for the cheapest celestian
either , they can vary quite abit

A marshall 800 type circuit is a good place to start [ 2403 ? ]
apparently at some point they eliminated a stage of power supply filtering
that some people say make newer ones less punchy
I don't know this myself , it may be an internet thing
GKB Audio / Greg Boboski

Svart

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 02:13:22 PM »
i just built a cabinet for my 2 Vintage 30's.  It took about 3 nights of work including covering with marine vinyl I got on sale at Jo-Ann fabric.  I built it out of leftover plywood from working on my house so it didn't cost me a dime except for the vinyl.
Welcome to the GroupDIY leper colony! when something falls off, we just replace it with a tube!
occupation: General Electron Mayhem

Alesis X2 information repository:
http://www.theopiumdenproductions.

josh

Re: Building an Amp/Head combo?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 05:50:45 PM »
This is all really good stuff.  I love you guys.

That site with the history of Marshall is a very interesting read.
Thanks,
Josh


 

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