pucho812

My bands rehearsal studio is small to medium small in space and the main area where we set up and play is square. I am running into problems with out P.A. set up for vocals.  No matter what I do, The drums and sometimes other instruments are  loud enough to get picked up by the mic our singer/guitar player uses. It is an SM57. I have tried everything I can think of to eliminate the problem. Our P.A. consists of a Mackie 1604 tied to a DBX drive rack into a crown power amp then going into Peavy speakers that are duel 15 woofs and horns. The speakers are on the floor as they stand over 5 feet tall. It is getting frustrating.
 If I eq the drive rack to pull out a lot of low and low mids, it gets better but then we still can't hear the vocals.  If I run the mic pre low, we get low vocals and still other instruments in the vocal mic. If I run the mic pre louder to get more vocal level I end up with drums and the rest in the mic too.  We do have some minimal acoustic treatment on the walls, Auralex foam. It doesn't do sh*t but it was free.  ultimately what I would like is to be able to have vocals that can cut through without having to change much.

What do you guys suggest?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


lofi

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 05:56:15 PM »
draw a square box and pretend its 14' by 14' (size of my room)

drums in centre of wall right on 8' by 8' riser (i record here as well)

pa speakers to each side pointing at oposite corners

guitar top left corner pointing at drummer

bass bottom left corner pointing at drummer

vocals centre left looking at drummer

seems to work for me, macgregor 600w pa (bridged mono)

Iain
Are you professionally stupid, or just a gifted amateur.

Iain Westland (UK)


pucho812

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 06:02:58 PM »
Interesting. Usual setup is as follows and kind of close to what you are doing.


Drums are placed at the middle of the top side of the square. To the left and to the right of the drummer are the PA speakers. On the right and bottom part of the square is the bass amp. The guitar player will usually put his fender twin between my drumkit and the PA speaker on the left. Accross from that and usually facinghis amp and me, He will have his SM57. I have a feeling that the room is just small and there is not much that can be done.  I can see the drums on a raiser to eliminate vibrations on the floor or maybe raising the pa speakers off the floor but I am not certain if that would help at all.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

lofi

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 06:17:22 PM »
if poss try my set up, and raise the speakers if pos, my woofers are about 5' up. instruments all point to drummer vocal mic away. the riser is only for recording, doesnt make that big a diff. and if everything points at you, your agression will be taken lighter

Iain
Are you professionally stupid, or just a gifted amateur.

Iain Westland (UK)


pucho812

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 08:12:41 PM »
I will try and see what happens. Although regardless of volume I play at, there is no safe spot for the vocal mic. The room size is the real problem and that can never change... Hmmm maybe I sould get those clear gogo's clearsonics or whatever they are called. thanks for the idea. I'll try it next rehearsal.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Andy Peters

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 04:52:43 PM »
My bands rehearsal studio is small to medium small in space and the main area where we set up and play is square. I am running into problems with out P.A. set up for vocals.  No matter what I do, The drums and sometimes other instruments are  loud enough to get picked up by the mic our singer/guitar player uses. It is an SM57. I have tried everything I can think of to eliminate the problem. Our P.A. consists of a Mackie 1604 tied to a DBX drive rack into a crown power amp then going into Peavy speakers that are duel 15 woofs and horns. The speakers are on the floor as they stand over 5 feet tall. It is getting frustrating.
 If I eq the drive rack to pull out a lot of low and low mids, it gets better but then we still can't hear the vocals.  If I run the mic pre low, we get low vocals and still other instruments in the vocal mic. If I run the mic pre louder to get more vocal level I end up with drums and the rest in the mic too.  We do have some minimal acoustic treatment on the walls, Auralex foam. It doesn't do sh*t but it was free.  ultimately what I would like is to be able to have vocals that can cut through without having to change much.

What do you guys suggest?

First and foremost: there's no need for a "PA system" in a rehearsal space. Get a pair of high-quality monitor wedges and put them in gig position.

Second and foremost: can't hear the vocals? TURN THE INSTRUMENTS DOWN.

-a, grouchy sound guy
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band"

SSLtech

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 05:41:29 PM »
there's no need for a "PA system" in a rehearsal space.
P.A = Public address.

This is a rehearsal room... so what public is being addressed???  ;D

can't hear the vocals? TURN THE INSTRUMENTS DOWN.

Cant... everything is louder than everything else!  ;D

First and foremost:
Second and foremost:

Can't have two foremosts... that's like having the vocals louder than the louder guitar...

;D

Keef

"A waist is a terrible thing to mind"
Quote from: PRR
Ah, but that was 1999; we don't party like that any more.

pucho812

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 05:59:43 PM »
actually keef the P in PA is for private.  ;D
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Mbira

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2009, 06:32:51 PM »
Does the singer sing at a decent volume?  What about a gate?
Joel Laviolette

Rattletree   |  https://www.rattletree.com
The Rattletree School of Marimba | https://www.learnmarimba.com

PRR

Re: Trouble shooting the rehearsal studio(best we to get louder vocals?)
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 02:50:46 AM »
The singer MUST be louder, AT his/her lips, than the drums etc are at the same point.

With most drummers, in most not-huge spaces, this is simply beyond the ability of most human vocalists. Many guitarists can fill a room louder than a vocalist can produce at lips.

Any "shooting" should start with the drummer, then the gitar, then counter-clockwise until the space in front of the vocalist's lips is more vocalist than any other.

It -would- make sense to use damped skins and mini-Fender when working in a space smaller than you could manage to fill. That avoids drummer-blood on the carpet. 


 

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