lavalier mics sound muffled, better technique? or just a crappy mic?

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kato

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
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Location
Indianapolis, USA
Does anyone here have experience getting good spoken voice sound with an omni lavalier?

My long-winded preface:
I bought a couple of cheap lavaliers to do a podcast for work. They sound great if you put them right up to your mouth.
But once on the tie clip, the voice sounds distant and muffled and loses all high end.

Here's the cheap lavalier in question.

I've already suggested proper desktop mics for better sound. But the producer is mandating lavalier mics for the comfort of the speakers, who have no recording experience and will surely feel more comfortable without big mics stuck in their faces. It's a good point. The producer has a previous career in broadcast television and believes we can get good sound with lavaliers, but no technical experience with them.

The recording date is Friday, with no chance for a re-do because we're flying in a guest from the UK as the voice talent.
I am responsible for the sound. So I'm to blame if this sounds like butt.

My question:
Would it help to buy more expensive microphones? I could overnight new mics before friday if I order soon. Or is this a technique problem? I've angled the mic several different directions but it's impossible to get a non-muffled sound without directing the mouth right into the mic. Any more experienced guys want to hazard a guess?  Thanks,  Kato
 
Well, I'm surely not one of the more experienced crowd but I wondered where exactly you tie the microphone. I often see that my lecturers try to tie a mic as high on their clothes(as close to the head) as only possible and that's when sound becomes dull. Try putting a mic in the middle of a chest if you already didn't do it.
Don't know if it works with all kind of small microphones but I think it's more about sound propagation than mic construction.

*"if you put them right up to mouth" you meant if you talk into the mic, right? if not my post doesn't make sense at all  :-X
m.



 
I don't have experience with this particular mic but this may help:

Sennheiser MKE2's used in theaters and such ONLY give a good sound when placed on the hairline pointing down to the mouth. Hence the name "wig-mic".  It might be worth trying depending on the visual situation of the recording.  I've pinned them in people's hair and routed the cable down behind their ear. 
It seems weird to place them there, but it is definitely a better sound with the MKE2's.

Of course, better mics will help...
 
Thanks friends. Yes, I meant "if I talk into the mic."

I think I mostly had it positioned up near my neck as close to the chin as possible. I will try a lower spot today.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'd try the hairline thing but I don't believe the chaps in question have any hair to speak of. I'd have to talk them into wearing wigs. :)
 
Hi,

I have quit a bit of experience with those omni's.
MKE were once leading but are outdated by DPA for sure.
The DPA's are a massive improvement, not strange considering they are from Bruel & Kjar.

Not cheap but worth the extra money IMHO.

Willem.
 
Roomy the farther away they get is normal ,
and without  " professional "  level from the average person
can vary for amount of gain needed and get roomy & phasey
but  thinner not duller  , sounds a little odd i think unless
you are getting too much cancelation  , is this listening to
multiple mics ? check phase and the 3:1 rule
A couple of shotguns may work , the 416 is a good shortshot
that way not too close , good luck & skill
 
Thanks Greg,
Michal's suggestion seemed to do wonders. Up by my collarbone, the voice sounded distant. Down by my belly, it sounds much better. Strangely, they sound better a little farther away.

I still went ahead and ordered different mics because the whole mini-plug adapter into 1/4 inch adapter, and annoying little cell battery made everything feel wrong.
 
I'll second Greg's suggestion of a Sennheiser 416 as a shotgun.  I work in post-production audio for a living.  I have to polish the turds that cameramen and video editors bring to me everyday. 

A lav clipped lower will reintroduce high end and reduce that upper chest resonance.  That 150-230Hz can be a betch.  Combined with a good shotgun like a 416, you get the whole story.  You might have to nudge the waveforms for the best phase coherency.  I can honestly say, the easiest projects to clean up, are shot with a decent lav and a 416.  I usually favor the 416, unless there's too much noise in the room.

The 416 is a great microphone and doesn't get enough kudos, outside of L.A.  It's used in field production and found in many V.O. booths because the match up for ADR is easier.  That reason aside, it's just a great mic for VO.  Think U87 with 6 dB per octave HPF at around 95 Hz. 
 
yeah i heard some people use it as their " secret " voiceover weapon

a lav too under the chin is like putting a mic behind a speaker cab
too off axis
 
We rush ordered a couple of new mics, had them overnighted from front end audio.
I was asked at 9:30 this morning, 'can we do a podcast today?' I said OK, but the mics leave something to be desired. I'll do my best.

Around noon, the mics arrive. With these factors, 1.) money savings, 2.) availability, and 3.) XLR connectors (no wireless available) I decided upon the Shure SM11-CN. ($100 Omni lav.)

I was too chickenshit to go with cardioid.
Off axis sounds slightly worse to me than roomy.

They've got kind of a man-on=the-street, NPR sound. I guess that's the omni talking.
It worked out well. Thanks for all your advice.
 

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