Sobering link re: National Semi's Audio ICs

Those of you who suspected NSC's emphasis on high-end audio might be too good to be true should read this link: Link

I guess no markets are isolated from the world economic climate...

Has anyone here tried some of these fabled uber low distortion op-amps? I kind of fancy having a servo-coupled preamp built around their 'forensic grade' op-amps. Anyone?

Justin

You guess?

You are lucky that you bite your fingernails.  The manicure industry is downsizing too. . .
Mike

That thread is a good example of why I don't spend much time on diyaudio---it's just too time-consuming.

I put 49720s in the front end of a new amp recently and have been quite pleased with the results.  I wish I could share the circuit but it's quite proprietary at this point.  I can say that I'm using them in (almost pure) inverting mode to avoid even their tiny common-mode distortion.

Yeah things are pretty desperate out there.  My own consulting biz sucks right now, but two ventures may take off.  Meanwhile I'm doing pretty much anything that comes along that doesn't require the drawing of blood.

Hi,\


  I have tried some of these, single dual and quads, replacing 741, 4741, and NE5532 NE5534, LM837's in some Glensound BBC mixers. They are quite staggering, and will even drive 150:600 transformer, albeit with slightly higher distortion(apparantly! not that I could hear!). I cannot remember the part no's offhand, but the surfacemount version with the outrageously high slew-rate(mounted on a piggyback board) was un-useable as a direct replacement. It just squeeled and oscillated. Since I am a novice, I didn't try to rectify this. Anyhow, the other lower slewrate versions sound absolutely amazing. _ it's like having a discrete console!

  I guess I'd better stock up. I intend to swap out some key chips in my venerable SonyMXP2000, especially mix-amps and pre's.


  Metal versions of single op-amp(apologies for not giving the part no!) definately sound better than the plastic ones. So glad I'm not the only one to think that!


    Kindest regards,


  ANdyP

Mike – I hope my remark didn’t appear glib. When your job is under threat, the last thing you’re likely to buy is boutique audio. Although having said that, certain high-end OEMs that I know are reporting an increase in sales. I suspect this could be due to people losing faith in banks – analogue audio gear is as good an investment as anything at the moment!

Personally, I’m looking to upgrades for existing equipment. I’ve also started pursuing servicing / refurbishing work that I wouldn’t have bothered with a few months ago. Not to mention offering discounts…

Anyway, I’m serious about trying a forensic-grade preamp made with some of these uber ICs. I know several respected designers who can design a circuit for such a thing, but it’ll cost me. Where to start? Anyone interested in starting a group project design here?

Thanks for the report, S+B.


Justin 

Perhaps I'm just being contrary but some perspective here might be in order... As Brad mentioned using opamps inverting (and other circuit techniques) can deliver quite respectable performance from popular devices. Execution, execution, execution...

Before undertaking a presumably improved design it is useful to know how much deviation from ideal or theoretical remains to improve upon.

With mic preamps we are already limited by the Johnson noise of the source for significantly quieter results. Likewise the linearity of properly executed hybrid (discrete + opamp) has been quite good for decades. Even later generation preamp ICs are getting competitive. Dropping a modern uber-opamp into one of the popular designs might make some measurable difference on a good enough test bench, but don't expect any night and day listening experiences.

In fact, if an esoteric preamp sounds significantly different, I predict it is doing so by adding coloration, not by being more accurate.

There is still plenty of room for improvement in weaker parts of our playback chain.. Loudspeakers and listening rooms make huge contributions to our listening experience.

IMO put your energy where it can make a difference. If that part of the chain is optimal then consider adding a few zeros to the right of the decimal point in your electronics. 

[/rant]

JR
 
PS: I am surely guilty of ever engineering phono preamps beyond practical benefit, so have fun, but lets dismiss the notion that there is much there there...

thermionic said:

Mike – I hope my remark didn’t appear glib. When your job is under threat, the last thing you’re likely to buy is boutique audio. Although having said that, certain high-end OEMs that I know are reporting an increase in sales. I suspect this could be due to people losing faith in banks – analogue audio gear is as good an investment as anything at the moment!

Justin 

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I have also heard that high-end stuff is doing fairly well.  Someone conjectured, and I find it plausible, that people with serious money, despite losing big-time in the market debacle, are simply going ahead with what they enjoy.

Contrast this with the middle-income probably-homeowners who have gone from secure salaries and inflated property valuations and easy credit, to about none of this.  They were the potential customers for the last big system I worked on, a home theater system for medium-sized rooms that is easy to install and operate and delivers great quality at the price (depends on the projector, but running in the several thousand $US range).  Despite glowing reviews and an uptick in sales at the end of last year, things are now pretty dismal.

On the other end there's the teeny wimpy systems from outfits like Vizio.  They are probably not doing great either, but likely better than nothing.

So---one of my ventures is a budget preamp with high-end pretensions.  But although affordable for many it's likely that the real buzz and money will associate with a bigger and more expensive unit, replete with the thicker sculpted chassis, separate power supplies, etc.

Hi-end does always well because money is not of issue.

I have also started to offer servicing/upgrading equipment like Justin. I wish I did it before. If your service is good they are happy to pay. Recently I even fixed a board of an industrial machine. Took me an hour to locate the faulty capacitor, charged the client £250 and they could not be happier. I thought wow, forget the works that require long hours, and big investment. Concentrate on this line you'll be doing fine. 

I am serious.

bcarso said:

Meanwhile I'm doing pretty much anything that comes along that doesn't require the drawing of blood.

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Nothing wrong with jettisoning a pint of juice every couple of months.  I used to regularly, as a constitutional and donation, till they made blood rules against people who lived in the UK in the 80's.  Cad mow disease my hoof.
Mike

Don't despair, Mike - there's always medical research. I hear it pays well for living subjects. If you're prepared to 'flat line' for a few seconds they'll give you a couple of grand! And there's always drugs that need trialling.

Justin

thermionic said:

Don't despair, Mike - there's always medical research. I hear it pays well for living subjects. If you're prepared to 'flat line' for a few seconds they'll give you a couple of grand! And there's always drugs that need trialling.

Justin

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One of my favorite Malcolm in the Middle episodes is where the not-too-bright Reese signs up for a number of different drug trials---of course telling none of those administering about any of the others.