Shopping for mic cables - four conductors, plus shield??

Never heard of this before. From Markertek catalog:

"Our CMI-Series microphone cables are assembled with a quad-element inner cable surrounded by a dense, braided shield. Two conductors carry the positive signals and two carry the negative, for lower capacitance."

Is this actually better, or am I being manipulated by the feeling that it must be better.
The only Hosa brand cables I've bought in the past were thin and crappy.

And here's another one:

"Special 4 conductor configuration plus high shield density reduce hum and noise to less than 10% of conventional 2-conductor mic cables."


Also, what are mini-XLR cables. Is that just code for "XLR" or a different size XLR?

mini xlr is actually that, it's a smaller size xlr connector.

for example, check out these akg headphones.

http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/pspic/image/38/image1079364389_K141studio4055cb24c019c.jpg

As for quad cable having better sonics, I say yes. I have heard a difference. However quad cable is best used because Combining pairs in a spiral configuration affects what is called the "loop area". That means, the closer the wires stay together , the more likely that the noise and interference they encounter will be the same on each wire and the more likely the noise can be canceled by being a balanced line. Quad cable has the added advantage of having pairs of wires, teisted pairs on the hot and cold. They provide noise cancellation ("common mode rejection") at each pin, as well, due to the connection as a balanced line

Look up canare star-quad..  probably a bunch of knock-offs out there.

2 signal conductors are actually 4 wires (2 parallel pairs)  tightly wrapped in a spiral.  The geometry of the 4 wire wrap reduces area between conductors (effective and real), and provides symmetrical pickup of noise for excellent CMR.

This is good mic cable with perhaps a little higher capacitance than normal, but fine for 99.9% of applications.

JR

We use quite a lot of Starquad at work. Probably not to be sniffed at.

Oh, but don't use it for AES/EBU. 

rodabod said:

Oh, but don't use it for AES/EBU. 

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Why not?

important is that one is clockwise, the other counter-clockwise... For that reason, paying attention to the color-code is important... You have to pair a hot clockwise with a cold counter-clokwise, and likewise for the cold... having two hots for the clockwise and two colds running counter-clockwise is "undoing the twist".

Starquad in magnetically-noisy environments for the win.

Keith

pucho812 said:

rodabod said:

Oh, but don't use it for AES/EBU. 

Click to expand...

Why not?

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It just doesn't work. I have my suspicions that rodabod and I have been inmates at the same training camp (although probably years apart in our sentences). They demonstrated there that you might (if you're lucky) be able to get AES to work over up to almost 3 meters of starquad, but it'll go for miles (literally) over bog-standard twisted pair (CAT5/5e/6 is absolutely perfect).

It's all to do with impedances. The extra conductors induce greater loss (due to inductance), and because the AES carrier is around 1.5 MHz, the weird impedance of starquad attenuates the signal extremely quickly.

It does make a difference on long runs for Mic though, reduces the induced noise pretty well (I can't remember exact figures). It's pretty pointless over short runs.

Colin

The benefits of star quad for interference rejection in balanced systems are well-documented.  See the AES journal devoted to a summary of the Ground Noise workshop of many years back.

Ap uses it in short cables for the relatively lower capacitance.  But it's indeed quite possible that for long runs the chararcteristic impedance is not a good match for AES/EBU.

I'll testify that the Canare Star-Quad is more annoying to solder, but once the cables are made, then (assuming good connections) they're very robust. Our dance group has half-a-dozen we've been using since the 1970s, and in that time (with very hard use) we've had to touch up two XLRs, replace one, and had zero actual cable failures. The color-coding is useful, too.

Now the knock-offs, I can't speak of them.

Peace,
Paul

The original StarQuad is great mic cable, definitely not a bullshit product. As for any knock-offs.... YMMV.

pucho812 said:

rodabod said:

Oh, but don't use it for AES/EBU. 

Click to expand...

Why not?

Click to expand...

Its impedance is not 110 ohms.

-a

NewYorkDave said:

The original StarQuad is great mic cable, definitely not a bullshit product. As for any knock-offs.... YMMV.

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I had a huge reel of imitation star quad in my lab that I was evaluating to offer as a product some 15 years ago. I didn't do a strict side by side comparison, but did compare it to standard mic cable and the improvement in noise rejection was remarkable.

The Canare is the original (AFAIK), if that matters to you.

JR

I have been buying some starquad type cable in the UK branded Alpha cable which is pretty good & very reasonably priced from Rapid,

The strange thing is that if you buy the starquad version it is exactly the same price as the 2 core ;-)

30M for 26.95 ex VAT  part no 02-0880

I thought I read that starquad was not good for super long cable runs (up to a few meters is ok) and I had logged in my brain that they were talking about analog.. but reading the posts here makes me think that they were maybe talking about AES-EBU?

Anyway that said I have some Canare star-quad and it rocks.. Excellent quality stuff..

You mean AES has that carrier to jam digi cameras at the show?
I knew it!
All my pics came out weird.

Whaddaya mean, they came out as twisted as you, CJ 

ju

This unassuming little book is, I think, the last word in wire.  Everyone should have it.

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Installers-Pocket-McGraw-Hill-Reference/dp/0071386211

Get it and understand!

Speaking of Starquad, is there something I could not use a single cable as a snake for a stereo pair, if I don't care about noise?

Best, M

Marik said:

Speaking of Starquad, is there something I could not use a single cable as a snake for a stereo pair, if I don't care about noise?

Best, M

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My day job is with a custom cable manufacturer, and we sell a 50ft long 5-pin XLR balanced stereo cable that uses a single length of Canare starquad.  Never had a complaint about noise with it.  It's used all the time with stereo boom microphones on film and tv sets.