wanted - clone builder
« on: April 18, 2009, 05:16:09 AM »
sorry guys , i know some of your regard this as unholy but as a composer who plays piano and records and doesnt make circuits i am really in need of someone and help or a contact who can build me some stuff over time for my studio including an ssl clone.Please private message me if you can help.


gyraf

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 07:50:54 AM »
Why not learn to do it yourself - or on the other hand just go out and buy commercial products?

Jakob E.


..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

Luny Tune

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 08:19:05 AM »
Yes, while it's perfectly understandable how you spot this as a way of getting this great gear at a low price, you're really crossing the line we're already balancing here.

You may think that as long as you financially compensate whoever helps you out then you're not stepping on anyone's toes. Not so! It's a thin and invisible line, I agree, but there's a difference between for instance asking if anyone has a GSSL built that they never use, and then you're willing to buy, and systematically organizing that someone build gear you want for you for money.

Learn to do-it-yourself, buy the originals or exchange favors/gear. Do it in some way that does not mean that you're cheating SSL, Universal Audio et.c. of their profits.

There are people like Jakob E. and others who make these projects available and doable for regular people like you and me. They dug into what the original designers created and explained it to the rest of us. If you pay someone to build it for you, then doesn't Jakob deserve to be compensated? The original designer?

If you build it yourself based on info you discuss in and take in through this online community of diy'ers you stay on the right side of the line. That's perfectly legal. Paying someone else for building it for you is not only it's immoral but downright illegal in many (if not all) countries.

Read this only as an explanation and encouragement to dig into it yourself. You will discover a new world full of extremely helpful people and odds are that if you're active in the community you will receive more than you ever hoped for to begin with.

It's not that difficult! Most of all it's a question of just doing it! :)

MartyMart

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2009, 03:03:05 PM »
The only way that this works well, is for you to either build something ( with a more techie friend perhaps )
or to buy something commercial and be done with it.
OK you may get lucky and someone sells one or a "half built" one  from the Black market .... however ....

Sometimes the "I've got bored and can't finish this or it needs trouble shooting" buys are NOT good ones.
They often have errors so you "kind of" have to go back to the beginning and with a partial filled board that's a
pain in the ass !

There is also "zero" resale value from DIY - you just have to use it and keep it forever.

I've built two GSSL's for friends and have only really covered costs and a little time on them.
To be fully re-embursed for a "pro" build, it would be almost as much as a real one would cost.
I don't have enough time to finish the stuff that I need, so doing any more for others is a "no no"
What's YOUR hourly rate ? .... bottom line ?  .... so what is it going to cost for a tech to build one
for you ?  ...... approx 3 days work ..... yes that's right ..... a LOT !

Best of luck,

Marty,
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"

kato

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 10:55:30 AM »

I won't agree with the learn to DIY suggestion for someone whose name is "nonsolderer."  :)
It's extremely time-consuming to do DIY right. I can honestly say - as a total beginner myself - I've spent hundreds of hours studying and learning over the past four years to get myself to the point where I'm comfortable building DIY audio. And I still have a lot to learn. That would take away from your music-making time considerably.

You may get lucky and find an extra unit in need of a home. Since many people here go overboard and build 6-8 channels of things, and then want to sell them off, that could be your best bet.

Have you looked into the chameleon labs clone?
It's impossibly cheap - $650!

Reportedly it sounds just like the SSL bus compressor, but with a crappy, floppy meter. But that shouldn't matter too much if you're using your ears.

If that seems like a lot of dough, honestly I couldn't sell a DIY one for less than that. And if you do find one for less than that, beware! You'll get what you paid for. :)

So consider biting the bullet, paying the $650, and get on with making great music.
Best wishes.

livingnote

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 10:55:52 PM »
Hey Jens, I can understand what you mean with cheaper, cheaper cheaper and that we are here for learning, but if the guy who did all the work to make it and put it out in public is fine with you selling one, why not? I'm still really new here so I can't really be saying much, but maybe there just need to be better examples than the ones I read about here - people who play fair and don't run off and hide behind ebay ;) I guess that's the thing about prohibition...it doesn't work  :P

What bugs me is the prices these people are dreaming of when they come around. How many hours did we stick into electronics and now they want a monkey to do what? If you simply charged a standard hourly wage, you'd probably blow their budget just like that. I guess if you're screwed, unemployed and need to pay the rent you can say 5 bucks the hour but hey...

But I'm sure there are a lot of musicians out there who feel something right about hand made stuff from a friend - it's like the stories I hear, where the techs still built stuff for their artists instead of walking into some mass-produced equipment shop. I sure like that!
Quote from: emrr
F-in' hook some Sh*t up and see if it catches on fire
Living Note Studio

Luny Tune

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2009, 12:09:01 PM »
...but if the guy who did all the work to make it and put it out in public is fine with you selling one, why not?
Right you are, but the actual case IS that "the guy who did all the work to make it and put it out in public" ISN'T fine with it!

And why isn't he fine with that? Because then he would be okay-ing that people build it for profit by selling them off to others, and he can't okay that since it's not his designs originally! Hence his disclaimer: http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/gyraf_diy.html
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:23:51 PM by Luny Tune »

livingnote

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 11:15:59 AM »
Quote
and he can't okay that since it's not his designs originally!

I totally dig that from an idealistic standpoint, but if you look at the big picture - how many ways are there to build a comp? I mean, the entire industry lives on a few basic principles that have been modified whatever each way, so that at this point almost all the original designs have been run over left, right, front and center already. How can it be wrong for a DIYer to design his own SSL-style comp and sell it to friends when six companies already have their chinese doing the same thing on overtime? Certainly SSL would be incurring the real damage from those companies and not from some guy with his soldering iron?

That said of course I don't consider it okay to just rip something off the net and start producing. I built one for a friend once and it did *not* feel right.
Quote from: emrr
F-in' hook some Sh*t up and see if it catches on fire
Living Note Studio

EmRR

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 11:22:08 AM »
How many SSL knock-off's are already out there in the legit marketplace already?  Seems there are several.  And at prices less than I could build one. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

Kingston

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 11:34:17 AM »
There has been a lot of these requests lately, and they all contain a fundamental flaw: they haven't considered just how expensive labor is.

I'm sure someone has told them a story along the lines of "dude I freaking made myself SSL/1176/whatever for $200!"

It's easy to forget you spent a solid week building it.

Order one from me and it's going to cost a lot more than even the new reissues from original manufacturers. I don't have a factory full of chinese ladies with factory floor production methods and volumes.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:38:34 AM by Kingston »


Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 11:41:11 AM »
Not pointing out anyone in particular...but just the idea itself.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/opportunism

Should be made into a sticky 'round here.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously: It's not that hard to learn to solder and place parts.

The will to survive and the metal work being the toughest part...imo.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 11:49:51 AM by desol »

MagnetoSound

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 12:25:04 PM »

The will to survive and the metal work being the toughest part...imo.



Yes.
Dan

I don't think people realize what an embarrassment of riches this place is   -  Paul Gold

eskimo

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 12:37:11 PM »
The will to survive and the metal work being the toughest part...imo.

*Visualizes the average lab member*



Yes, that's about it.

higginsrob

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2009, 01:35:08 PM »
*Visualizes the average lab member*

thats pretty much dead on... except we all have solder burns on our legs! ha ha

W DeMarco

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2009, 02:07:41 PM »
Ill tell you what nonsolderer, before I built my first build, a GSSL, I had never soldered anything except for some patchbay stuff.   I also had no real knowledge of electronics.  As an engineer I had always wondered about the equipment I use in the studio and know understand much of the theory, in a general way, behing these devices.  I also feel like I actually use my tools better.  So at first my goal wasnt to build an asskickin compressor as it turned out to be but to help myself understand electronics. 

Now this is not a cheap gear forum as some might be compelled to think of diy as.  My G1176 sounds great just and I might fare to say a bit better than an original.  The same G1176 was used by some big name producers who actually asked me to build them one after comparing to an original unit, even tho he is a friend I cant do it for him.   The reason that I can build a great sounding compressor for maybe 500 bucks is because of the generosity of this forum and the fact that I didnt have to pay someone to work for a week on a compressor for me. 

If your thinking of expanding your racks then you should step up to the challenge and spend a few nights a week building a unit for yourself.  And believe me, if I can build one then most anyone who takes their time will be just as successful.  At this point now I have built 4 mono eqs and comps, a stereo comp, and a eq3d .  Right now Im workin on the pm670.  Hope you take the plunge!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 02:09:33 PM by W DeMarco »

livingnote

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2009, 04:26:22 PM »
Word.
Quote from: emrr
F-in' hook some Sh*t up and see if it catches on fire
Living Note Studio

MrZpliff

Re: wanted - clone builder
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2009, 04:42:42 PM »
The GSSL was my first build after a few stompboxes. I just plugged it in and it worked right away.  :) Great feeling !
It's not that hard really. Just take your time, check and double check. You'll learn a lot and it's great fun.

The hard work is actually the case...
Peace
Magnus
www.bitterend.se


 

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