What the **** is this ?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/383232-studio-sale-pultec-ssl-phoenix-clones-more.html
??? ??? ???
have been in contact with the seller today.
he bought it for around EUR 3000.
yes, readily build, from the same person who did the case and frontpannel.

We know the PCB designer didn't want those public, and not for commercial use (this wasn't me, and the great  designer disappeared from this forum - it is a loss).
We know he (not the PCB designer) sells other PCBs too.
at least I know I get some support questions for PCBs I sold from people who didn't bought their PCBs from me.

what to do ?
many people claimed why the PoorMan project isn't really open.
this guy bought at least 10 stereo sets of the PoorMan project, for him and his friends, for sure.
he bought at least 8 D-LA2A PCBs.
we know he is selling PCB designs Frank from NRGrecording did.

what do we expect next ?
completely hidden projects ?
no documentations ?

it is sad - and Tat - I will never sell you any PCB anymore.

now, what do you all think

Can't see it without being a member of gearslutz (I really should join).
I presume someone is selling your PCB projects for ridiculous profit? If that's the case: Then for fuck sake!

Not sure what you can do about it. I suppose you could limit the amount you'll sell to individual users but people will find easy ways around that.

Edit: I see now that it wasn't one of your PCB projects. But yeah....still need to be wary of such an occurrence.

Rob

Ok Volker....can you be a little more specific?
Are you talking about the Phoenix ?
and that person you're talking about is Tat?

I think the answers are yes and yes.

Q: What the fuck is this?
A: A sad, SAD day for everything this board stands for.

Well, that boring panel design sure looks like one of his... 8)

...but really, it's saddening...

This has been a really interesting week around here now hasn't it?

He's making serious money and this forum provides him with free advert space in the black market.

Grooveteer said:

A sad, SAD day for everything this board stands for.

Click to expand...

I would think the SAD day will be the day when a person would be killed or bad injured by a DIY unit defect, hope that will never happen...
There is no insurance when you sell a DIY unit that will be connected to mains, beware if the buyer sue you for an electric failure

Volker, I highly respect your work, honestly so don't take this on the wrong way but if you sell 10 PCBs to a same person,
how could you be sure that he won't make profit from them ? I mean, maybe you could set a limit for the number of PCB one could buy ?
Anyway, what is done is done, but you can change the future.

Just signed up to gearslutz there. The front panel looks pretty familiar alright.....Even has the power switch in the middle.

Rob

Yesterday i was looking for some answers to questions i have in mind about a Electrodyne compressor C700.
I found a guy who owns one and refered me to this guy/pro-audio cie: www.pickstone.com.au/

At first sight i couldnt tell what they were doing since they sell Custom pro audio and guitar amps..... but i was so intrigued when i saw this pic on his website:




What the heck??
But whats wrong with the Phoenix?? i dont get it i'm lost...

Thanks.

I guess I'm not sure what the finger pointing is for.  That's one of Steffan's Pultecs, and I don't know anything about the Themionic clone.  Where the boards came from or who made that one.  It's a fine line between custom and commercial.  These units are being sold as second hand.  Is it wrong if someone you know commissions you to build them something, which in turn pays for yours and his?  You can't stop someone from selling something that is no longer yours, either.

I'd feel a little differently about the matter if these people advertising these products for sale, but I have yet to see that.  When I open up a magazine and see an ad that says, "Hey, I'm so and so and I build clones of other peoples stuff and sell it to you cheap!", I'll feel differently.  Probably mad.  

I'm not going to say there's nothing wrong with this, but we only know the story of the person who is currently selling these.  As far as I'm concerned, lump this into, "Ethical Grey Area".


***EDIT***
Ok, now that there are a bunch of new posts since I started writing this, things make a bit more sense.  But I still stand by the statement that we only know the story of the person that posted this classified ad.  We don't know Tat's story or Steffan's story.  Are we going to start a witch-hunt?  Hunt down everyone on the board that has built something for someone other than themselves??  Where do we draw the line???

At 3nity:

Thats crazy!

The really insulting thing is that the picture is in the "Custom Audio Design" section where "All design is carried out by our qualified electrical engineer with extensive experience with both tube and solid state technologies".

Hmmm.......

Rob

MikoKensington said:

We don't know Tat's story or Steffan's story.

Click to expand...

It'd be good if they would show up here posting. Understandably people have formed their opinion about it
but let's await more info.

Bye,

  Peter

miko,

i doubt that volker is taking issue with chris selling these units second hand.  and steffen's pultec uses PCBs that steffen designed himself, so he had every right to sell it for whatever he wanted, etc.

the problem is that tat got PCBs of a design that he had nothing to do with and then sold them together with cases, apparently even going so far as to assemble a finished unit.  if you design something and want to sell it for profit, i say that's great.  if you design something and sell it not for profit, and then someone adds on to that and sells it for a profit, that is very questionable.  some might say that is a simple value add and deserves to make a profit, but what happens when there is a problem with the unit?  or what if the end user has questions that cannot be answered by the "assembler" and it falls back on the designer?

personally i have many times considered releasing a PCB to the group, but the hassles associated with everyone who might later buy it in some modified form secondhand have always deterred me.

ed

I guess that's really the bottom line...if you're going to sell a finished unit for profit, you should take the time to make your own pcb layout at the very least.

That way no one else is tied to it but you.

Have you seen this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110340728126

That is some fucked up moral sense indeed. This whole thing reminds of the situation with Piratebay against swedish copyright law, people looking to benefit from another person/party's immaterial rights.

kubi said:

I still hope somebody will kick Tat's ass one day and the board will find its way back to what it used to be. Being optimistic for that reason the Jensamp project will be fully open - even though we know people like Tat will sell the PCBs in combination with his cases under the radar.

Click to expand...

Here is all you need



http://purusha.smokinggunrecording.com/diy/Vari-MuPCB2.jpg

http://purusha.smokinggunrecording.com/diy/Vari-mu.jpg

Just follow the cosmic slop from the hosting of the pictures.

Can you say REDD handed, He was offering the PCB's about 8 months ago on the DL.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=30898.msg374695#msg374695
http://purusha.smokinggunrecording.com/diy/33609.jpg


I'm sure we could uncover a few more things and maybe Jimmy Hoffa is we dig deep enough but don't want to blow the cover

Correction ,other than business on the BM he occasionally
goes to the lab if he's having a problem and needs help
so he may never see these posts HERE