I dont like the new PP forum!!??!!?!?!?

I like the two markets, AND the daily grind.
Is there some way we can do a virtual fussball table?
Mike
PS: the "Simple Machines Forum" logo gave me an eye twitch at first, but I am over it now.

>I literally get at least a dozen complaints a day about various issues

Wow!  You give us this FREE forum and people have the audacity to complain to you about other people's actions to the tune of a dozen per day?  That's just wrong and all these people should be ashamed of themselves.  How childish and selfish.  I'd bet a whole dollar that Ethan has better thangs to do with his time besides babysit upset electronic designers.  I applaud the white market.  The other alternative would obviously be to get rid of the market all together.  If your stuff is getting jacked, you've no one to blame but yourself for posting it in a PUBLIC FORUM.  It certainly isn't Ethan's fault and shouldn't be his problem.

Once again I'd like to thank Ethan and the fine folks at Prodigy Pro for providing this forum.

Sincerely,

Richard

Richard, your post offended me and I sent Ethan a PM to let him know...

I join'd here in 2005 and have seen this place grow to be a unique and inspiring place. Yes the place has changed but in a controlled and positive way. I am happy with the place as it is now, was a month ago and even was at the beginning. It's just changed like everything else does in life.

My only gripe is some of the whinging recently by people who have competing comercial or other intrests. Because just as this place changes so does the law and we don't want to see anyone here being sued by another member.

rrs said:

My only gripe is some of the whinging recently by people who have competing comercial or other intrests.

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OI... did you just call me a short, fat, ugly bastard?

peter purpose said:

OI... did you just call me a short, fat, ugly bastard?

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Peter, I'm quite sure he did not call you fat... :-\...

I rather think the new set up is good. I happen to be one of the guys who's paying for the WM add and OK with it. It's evolution. Like Ethan said, the funds will only help him make this forum better for much longer. It is by far the best one going. I really don't much care for GS anymore.

In all reality, there are a number of threads that are run in the BM by individuals who appear to be doing everyone a favor, but are clearly making some cash on their offers. I'm not trying to hide anything. I need to make a little bit of profit because of the costs involved in running such an endeavor.

Like Skyar said, some of the prices are pretty darn low. I try to make sure that all of my prices are lower than can be had elsewhere unless you are buying a pretty large quantities.

Here's an example of the pricing structure and how I run things. Not only me, but Mike over at Hairball too. He has been carrying the custom 600 ohm t-pads for the 1176 builds at around $45. I chose to used the same t-pad in my preamp. I bought one from Mike for my proto build. After testing, I said to Mike, "we should buy these together so we can get a better price on them". We both immediately agreed that we could drop the price to help save all of our customers(fellow DIY friends) some cash. The price dropped by $5 each. I think that is a pretty good savings. If we were nothing more than money grubbing douche-bags, the price would have remained the same. The conversation and dealing between use have would remained private, and we would both be putting and easy, extra $5 bucks in our pocket for each t-pad we sold!

I'm not looking for a medal or anything but I think I and the fellow store owners, like to think that the community as a whole is benefiting from our stores a little more than we are benefiting as individuals. That goes for guys like Ed too, who provide us with the unique and hard to find elsewhere, custom transformers for our builds. I can guarantee you Ed is not making a living from supplying Mike and I with custom transformers!

Cheers, Jeff

I'm fine with the new rules and the white market.
This will not stop some abuse in the Black Market, but it will be more clear then.

I have never been a friend of the "no business at all here" statements, and I think even a little profit for doing a real group buy in the Black Market is legit.

let me pass through some group buys I have done:
(include to every point returned packages, refunds and double postage due to wrong addresses etc)
1) D-AOC PCBs: my first one, luckily I went out with a profit, but only since I calculated import tax and luckily slipped through customs (otherwise there would have been a loss)
2) D-LA2A Sets with Drip T4Bs and PSU Transformers: lost money, since I passed through the T4Bs, and didn't calculated the paypal fees and bank transfer to Drip ... this was a major loss, arround EUR 1000,-
3) PoorMan: it is not a secret I'm paying royalty fees to analag for this, and donate to prodigy pro for every sold PCB. I think this is a very fair and great solution. the calculation this time was done right, and I'm getting some profit too. this makes it commercial, this makes it more expensive than the other PCBs have been before.

the bad thing with group buys is the limited time it is offered. we have seen loads of people (me more via pm or email) why there is nothing available anymore, since they came too late. :

this results in what Jeff and Mike are doing: a web shop.
there might be complains this is commercial (and it has to be, there is server space to pay, taxes, shipping materials, not speaking of the time and the money involved to stock all this items everybody wants to have available at any time)

for me this leads in a web shop too, since I'm very tied of al this "is there any PCB left" etc.
(and you don't know at all how many time those guys invested to set it up, but I know now)
setting this up, together with a legal business, is a pain.
looking at there prices I don't know how they do it ??? :
if prices have to change, anybody should understand.

Cool..
Nice to know we are feel concerned by the changes!
I still maintain my point of view but hey maybe its a matter of time...
And who knows i might just decide to release the project i'm working on right now...who knows..?!?!?!?!?

Keep your cool fellas..
Thanks..

I have no problems at all with commercial enterprise being on this board as long as it is disclosed to the buyer first. As far as i can see, this is being disclosed very fairly and openly.  My musings on this are as follows and please dont flame me for being a bit self righteous with my long winded post

1) Once clearly disclosed, any intelligent human being can decide whether they think an enterprise is appropriate  for them to buy from. Moreover, if it isn't they can decide that the seller's practices dont sit with their moral standponit and they can elect not to buy. For some things there are simple answers

2) In latin there is a phrase - "Caveat Emptor"  or "Let the Buyer Beware". Blaming sellers is actually avoiding any responsibility on our part as buyers. Clearly if we are made aware of the nature of a sale (ie a GB or a shop), then we, and only we, have the responsibility to decide what we think is appropriate to purchase.

3) Where there are designs being sold without permission etc, it would be negligent of all of us if we turned a blind eye to it just because we like the forum to look the way it is and dont like changes. That is not fair to a designer. Just because a designer puts something in a public forum doesn't mean they deserve to be ripped off.

4) As for the argument that stuff being sold here ruins the spirit of the forum - well I have sometimes searched high and low for a component and found it hard to find. Particularly living in Australia.  Having a ready source is a wonderful option and I am really thankful to the people on this board who can offer Tpads or anything else that I may be looking for. I frankly would rather the spend the majority of my time building circuits and reading electronic theory/info rather then scouring webshops for components all day. Am I the only one? I bet musicans prefer to spend their time creating and playing rather than just searching for new guitar strings, etc.

5) As for this nefarious argument about kits being just paint by numbers and accordingly one learns nothing form making one - again its up the the individual to glean as much out of an activity as they choose to. It is human nature that some of us will always the thirsty for knowledge and always want to know how something works. Others may have little interest and always take the easy way out. That is why we are so very different. There may be some whom purchase kits and learn more from them that the rest of us put together. Learning and absorbing is complex.  Let me finish with an anecdote: Many people catch trains or buses. On any train maybe 100 people are riding. All of them get to the same destination and all started in the same place, yet some will look out the window and watch people, places, events and take a lot into their brain. They will have had a large experience.  Others may have been reading a newswpaper or listening to an ipod hoping to pass the time on the journey as quickly as possible. These peoples only interest was to get to their destination regardless of what happened on the way. Is the absorber better than the person whom had no interest in observing along the journey? They all caught the buss or train to their destination. None of them had to build their own shoes and walk!

deuce42 said:

 Let me finish with an anecdote: Many people catch trains or buses. On any train maybe 100 people are riding. All of them get to the same destination and all started in the same place, yet some will look out the window and watch people, places, events and take a lot into their brain. They will have had a large experience.  Others may have been reading a newswpaper or listening to an ipod hoping to pass the time on the journey as quickly as possible. These peoples only interest was to get to their destination regardless of what happened on the way. Is the absorber better than the person whom had no interest in observing along the journey? They all caught the buss or train to their destination. None of them had to build their own shoes and walk!

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I like that ;D

deuce42 said:

Blaming sellers is actually avoiding any responsibility on our part as buyers.

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My exact problem with ebay's shift in policies.

peter purpose said:

rrs said:

My only gripe is some of the whinging recently by people who have competing comercial or other intrests.

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OI... did you just call me a short, fat, ugly bastard?

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I'm just saying stop the winging and start building. I can go to GS for that.
Not directed at any single person but to clarify you all seem pretty short, fat, ugly to me  ;D.

Us Aussies are much more handsome.