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Soeren_DK

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Jun 7, 2004
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526
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Denmark
Difference between 47nf and 50nf in this circuit

I'm building the Ross compressor for guitar from tonepad.com
When I ordered parts for the project I ordered a 47nF instead of a 50nF

Does it make a difference if I use the 47nF
I have uploaded a schem so you can see what I'm talking about. The 50nF is in the end just before the 10K ohm resistor.

Cheers
Soeren
 

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I would think it is ok, many capacitors have a 20% tolerance in value, 47nF is 6% less than 50nf, so...
Also another builder seems to have used a 4.7nf capacitor in this place if I refer to 2nd build report from:
http://www.tonepad.com/project.asp?id=9
 
This cap and the output pot + pad resistor create a 1st order hipass filter with its -3dB cut-off at ca. 60Hz (-1 at 120Hz). This is supposing the output is loaded by a typical 1Meg load. The difference between 50n and 47n is not significant in this application. However, putting a 4.7n in this place may morph an electric guitar into a mandolin.
 
abbey road d enfer said:
However, putting a 4.7n in this place may morph an electric guitar into a mandolin.
Maybe it's worth it  :D, yes it was surelly a typo error from the build reporter...
Ah! I see he used a 10k pot instead of the 50k, sorry for misreading the report
(but then I compute a -3db point at 1.7kHz, so it will have light sound as well, dunno if my math are correct though)
 
Older parts tended to a 1-2-5 number sequence. As production tolerances tightened, and designers got more fussy, the industry switched to "rational" number sequences with uniform geometric spacing: 1-1.5-2.2-3.3-4.7-etc. Since the tolerances on the old 1-2-5 parts were 20% at best, the nearest-value in the new sequence is sure to work.

Slightly over-simplifying: the 0.05uFd cap into the 10K+50K load gives a 3dB bass roll-off at 53Hz; the 0.047 makes it 56.5Hz. Both numbers are +/-20% for cap tolerance. As Keefaz and Abbey say: There's no difference. Both are below guitar range. There's -1dB "error" at 110Hz and 2dB on the lowest note; but standard guitar-amps have 10dB losses in speakers and 10dB available bass-boost, you always trim the balls to-taste.

If you WANT a difference, with a coupling-cap, you make a BIG change. Anything less than 2:1 is hardly worth trying. For full-depth bass-guitar to 42Hz (or "precision" guitar with 1dB flatness), you might want 0.1uFd here (and check the other coupling networks). 0.02uFd here would slope-down the lowest notes of gitar; this is often done in the amplifier, not really something the compressor should be doing. As Abbey says, 0.005uFd=5nFd puts the high-pass near 550Hz, very bass-shy, soprano voice.
 
Thanks for the answers. It's so great with this forum..  ;D ;D :D :D

How do you do with the equation?
I can't see the connection..

I've found this site http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/ross.php where he suggest to put 0.001uF parallel with the 10K in the output part.
He describe that this will give some brighter sound.

More Treble Response Mod
"In general, simple, single-channel, full-bandwidth compressors of this type have the effect of creating the illusion of treble being attenuated (just as they create the *illusion* that the instument sustains better/longer). There would seem to be two or three paths towards improving that. One is to compress less. Another is to mix in a bit of uncompressed treble with the compressed signal. Another is to reshape the frequency response of the fully compressed signal.

Although there are probably better ways to do it, I sent in an Orange Squeezer mod to JD Sleep for posting on generalguitargadgets that attempts to accomplish option 3. It uses a simple bypass cap on the volume control that lets more treble through, relative to bass, as you turn the volume down. If you look at the Dyna/Ross schem (and bunch of other oddly enough), you'll see that the output path consists of a 0.05µF cap. a 10K fixed resistor, and a 50K pot. That 10K resistor is a mystery to me as to why its there, but lets just count our blessings and not ask too many questions.

How is the 10K resistor a blessing? Because it allows you to stick in a bypass cap. Note that the 10K+50K arrangement behaves as if it is a 60K pot that can never be turned up ALL the way. If a bypass cap could work on a 50K pot, why couldn't it work on a 60K pot? The nice thing here is that the treble boost it provides is applied across the entire range of volume-pot settings. Try a 1500pF (0.0015µF) cap in parallel with the 10K resistor for starters. If my assumptions and math are right, that should give a slight advantage to content above 2200hz in your output signal. That may or may not be enough to do the trick for you."

How come?


compressormod.gif


Cheers
Soeren
 
Hi Soeren, unfortunately I can't answer your specific question, but if you are interested in building a ross compressor, you should check out the BYOC version. They have added a few mods including a blend circuit for parallel compression. They sell a ready made PCB, if that's your cup of tea, and there is also a dedicated forum, just for the ross compressor (or 5 knob compressor, as their clone is called):
http://www.buildyourownclone.com/board/viewforum.php?f=19

BTW, I didn't like the blend function and left it out in the end, but I kept the attack and tone controls. all the 'improvements'/mods can be bypassed/returned to the original values.

I would love to find a way to make a "studio" version of this comp, I tried using it as an insert during mixing, but this involves a reamp box to get to guitar level/impedance and then a DI/mic pre to get back to +4dB. One day I will try to get help with a better solution on the drawing board, maybe  ???
 
hi soeren,

That 0.001 cap lets the high frequencies pass thru and that 10 k resistor attenuates all frequencies so what you get is a passive hi shelf.


@briomusic if i'm not mistaken the D&R half 19" rack compressor is a variation on the ross compressor intended for line level inserts.

greetings,

thomas
 
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