Modding a Motu Traveler _ getting the best out of it_

Hi all

This is a first post by a total noob, but I'm pretty set on upgrading my Traveler as the BLA mod route is too expensive for me (I'm in the UK).

I've read countless posts on here and other forums about modding Motu products, and I'm still a little unsure about a few details. Details I'd like to get right before attacking my only interface with a solder iron and a handul of chips.

First off, although the Traveler is almost identical (I believe) to the 828 range and shares many commonalities with the entire Motu family of interfaces, it does however have an external power supply. It can be buss powered, or even battery powered. In fact I think if I hooked it up to my bike's dynamo it'd probably spit out audio. In my situation though, I use a switching external PSU, which is actually the PSU I got with my old Toshiba Satellite.

Now, I maybe wrong here, but I am assuming this gives me a wider choice of replacement op amps to choose from as I dont have to worry about the supply current so much. I am also making the assumption that a Toshiba laptop supply is 'good' in terms of audio equipment. If this is however not the case, then a further assumption would be that it is relatively 'easy' to either upgrade or condition that supply to the best it can be, perhaps an off the shelf DIY audiophile supply? Thinking about it, I'm not at all sure about what happens to that DC when it gets into the Traveler, it can run on such a wide range of voltages..........

I suppose the most frustrating part for me is the opamps themselves. I've PM'd a few members (thank you so much for your help it is really appreciated!!) and read various threads and trawled through countless websites but really am no closer to where I started off.....ie a long list of replacement ICs. I thought I could narrow it down, but it seems the Motu range is a hell of a lot less fussy about the opamps than I had previously thought. I haven't had mine open, but I have no reason to suspect that it is any different from the 828 range ie 2115s on the inputs and 4580s on the outs, as I gather from various threads on this forum.

I'm kinda thinking I dont really need to swap them ALL out. I think it makes sense for me to have at least 2 line inputs as good as I can afford and the main outs as good as I can afford. Plus 2 additional outs as sends again as good as I can get them, so 6 channels in total. Frankly, I dont want to touch the mic pres, it just seems like too much hassle, and they are so beyond crap in stock Motu units (it's not even funny how bad they are) I figure they'll need a hell of a lot more than just an op amp swap to bring them up to anywhere near where I want them. The Line inputs however are far superior to the mic ins, and currently I use 1 Joe Meek VC3Q for bass mainly (soon upgrading the 2017 mic pre to a TH1510), and a Joe Meek TwinQ, which although sounds OK through the Motu line ins, I have it clocked to the Motu and use it's optical out....., sounds better. I'm just about to get either a DAV BG1u, or alternatively a few channels of Sound Skulptor 1073 clones.....so I need as decent an ADC as possible on a minimum budget. I figure with a mod, the Traveler is up to the task. The only thing that really let's it down is the analog side which kinda sucks.

So the wuestion really is, what the hell do I get, and how much attention do I pay to audiophile upgrade sites that cater specifically for Hi Fi?

I was thinking these : http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAM&Category_Code=OPAMPS

or these : http://audioupgrades.co.uk/na_ma_ha_opamps.shtml

Neither option is particularly cheap, but I've come across these things quite a bit and figure that there must be something in it? As I'm only doing 6 channels, I suppose I can afford to push the boat out on components, perhaps even going for the HAs on the main outs.

Only one option is SMD, but there are adapters out there, but again it pushes the price up, providing of course there is enough physical space in there in the first place. But my being a complete noob.....I dont even know if these particular ICs will really sound any better than the ones folks have used here (OPAxxx and THS4032?).

My other little baffling thing is the caps on the power rails, which all the Hi Fi sites seem to go on at length about. Will this make any difference, and if so, how do I work out the value of those caps for any given IC?

As is glaringly obvious, I need a little guidance so any help, pointers, words of advice, suggestions for a new hobby perhaps, are very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Everymatic

everymatic said:

Hi all

This is a first post by a total noob, but I'm pretty set on upgrading my Traveler as the BLA mod route is too expensive for me (I'm in the UK).

I've read countless posts on here and other forums about modding Motu products, and I'm still a little unsure about a few details. Details I'd like to get right before attacking my only interface with a solder iron and a handul of chips.

First off, although the Traveler is almost identical (I believe) to the 828 range and shares many commonalities with the entire Motu family of interfaces, it does however have an external power supply. It can be buss powered, or even battery powered. In fact I think if I hooked it up to my bike's dynamo it'd probably spit out audio. In my situation though, I use a switching external PSU, which is actually the PSU I got with my old Toshiba Satellite.

Now, I maybe wrong here, but I am assuming this gives me a wider choice of replacement op amps to choose from as I dont have to worry about the supply current so much. I am also making the assumption that a Toshiba laptop supply is 'good' in terms of audio equipment. If this is however not the case, then a further assumption would be that it is relatively 'easy' to either upgrade or condition that supply to the best it can be, perhaps an off the shelf DIY audiophile supply? Thinking about it, I'm not at all sure about what happens to that DC when it gets into the Traveler, it can run on such a wide range of voltages..........

I suppose the most frustrating part for me is the opamps themselves. I've PM'd a few members (thank you so much for your help it is really appreciated!!) and read various threads and trawled through countless websites but really am no closer to where I started off.....ie a long list of replacement ICs. I thought I could narrow it down, but it seems the Motu range is a hell of a lot less fussy about the opamps than I had previously thought. I haven't had mine open, but I have no reason to suspect that it is any different from the 828 range ie 2115s on the inputs and 4580s on the outs, as I gather from various threads on this forum.

I'm kinda thinking I dont really need to swap them ALL out. I think it makes sense for me to have at least 2 line inputs as good as I can afford and the main outs as good as I can afford. Plus 2 additional outs as sends again as good as I can get them, so 6 channels in total. Frankly, I dont want to touch the mic pres, it just seems like too much hassle, and they are so beyond crap in stock Motu units (it's not even funny how bad they are) I figure they'll need a hell of a lot more than just an op amp swap to bring them up to anywhere near where I want them. The Line inputs however are far superior to the mic ins, and currently I use 1 Joe Meek VC3Q for bass mainly (soon upgrading the 2017 mic pre to a TH1510), and a Joe Meek TwinQ, which although sounds OK through the Motu line ins, I have it clocked to the Motu and use it's optical out....., sounds better. I'm just about to get either a DAV BG1u, or alternatively a few channels of Sound Skulptor 1073 clones.....so I need as decent an ADC as possible on a minimum budget. I figure with a mod, the Traveler is up to the task. The only thing that really let's it down is the analog side which kinda sucks.

So the wuestion really is, what the hell do I get, and how much attention do I pay to audiophile upgrade sites that cater specifically for Hi Fi?

I was thinking these : http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAM&Category_Code=OPAMPS

or these : http://audioupgrades.co.uk/na_ma_ha_opamps.shtml

Neither option is particularly cheap, but I've come across these things quite a bit and figure that there must be something in it? As I'm only doing 6 channels, I suppose I can afford to push the boat out on components, perhaps even going for the HAs on the main outs.

Only one option is SMD, but there are adapters out there, but again it pushes the price up, providing of course there is enough physical space in there in the first place. But my being a complete noob.....I dont even know if these particular ICs will really sound any better than the ones folks have used here (OPAxxx and THS4032?).

My other little baffling thing is the caps on the power rails, which all the Hi Fi sites seem to go on at length about. Will this make any difference, and if so, how do I work out the value of those caps for any given IC?

As is glaringly obvious, I need a little guidance so any help, pointers, words of advice, suggestions for a new hobby perhaps, are very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Everymatic

Click to expand...

Sounds like the easiest thing is to simply replace it with something worthwhile...

kazper said:

Sounds like the easiest thing is to simply replace it with something worthwhile...

Click to expand...

Second that. I've modded a Motu 2408 MK3 (using LM6172 and Elna caps), and it was still easily beaten by a Lynx Aurora. Modding converters is not worth it IMHO.

Hmm, that certainly puts another spin on it.

I guess 'improvement' is the watchword here. I have no doubt that it can be improved some by upgrading the analog side, however how much of an improvement that actually is remains to be seen, but the word on the street is that it is, at least, marked. I'm simply applying the same logic to the Motu that the DIY audiophile guys apply to Hi Fi. Perhaps that's wrong, perhaps there are differences...

My main issue with simply replacing it is the expense of a much better quality unit. There's absolutely no point in settling for anything less than 'great', but 'great' rarely comes with an affordable price tag. Intermediate buys are what got me into this mess in the first place, so spending less than say, £1500 - £2000, would just be a waste of money. In reality, I could make that £2k go a long way on equipment that arguably would make a huge difference, rather than a subtle but important one.

I totally understand what you guys are trying to convey, and in an ideal world I'd bite the bullet. However, I'm stuck with a very small budget in the meantime and that doesn't look likely to change anytime soon, so modding this thing is the best option I have available to me.

you'll see a lot of metric halo ULN2 soon for cheap, because of the introduction of the ULN8.
Incredible pre and good ADDA

Hi Everymatic,

I'm not so familiar with the Traveler, but aren't the parts inside SMD ?

Unless you have lots of soldering experience (and the right tools) , you'd better not mess with the SMD components.

everymatic said:

Hmm, that certainly puts another spin on it.

I guess 'improvement' is the watchword here. I have no doubt that it can be improved some by upgrading the analog side, however how much of an improvement that actually is remains to be seen, but the word on the street is that it is, at least, marked. I'm simply applying the same logic to the Motu that the DIY audiophile guys apply to Hi Fi. Perhaps that's wrong, perhaps there are differences...

My main issue with simply replacing it is the expense of a much better quality unit. There's absolutely no point in settling for anything less than 'great', but 'great' rarely comes with an affordable price tag. Intermediate buys are what got me into this mess in the first place, so spending less than say, £1500 - £2000, would just be a waste of money. In reality, I could make that £2k go a long way on equipment that arguably would make a huge difference, rather than a subtle but important one.

I totally understand what you guys are trying to convey, and in an ideal world I'd bite the bullet. However, I'm stuck with a very small budget in the meantime and that doesn't look likely to change anytime soon, so modding this thing is the best option I have available to me.

Click to expand...

I know what you're talking about. When it comes to converters, there is no easy way around. At least not for a multichannel unit. 16 or more "great" sounding I/O channels are just not possible. I like my Aurora, it's good, but a big Prism or Lavry unit is still quite a bit better. But cost prohibitive, of course. It would be cheaper to get a good sounding console and a 16 track tape recorder.
I think the Aurora is the best compromise in terms of sound/performance.

helterbelter said:

Hi Everymatic,

I'm not so familiar with the Traveler, but aren't the parts inside SMD ?

Unless you have lots of soldering experience (and the right tools) , you'd better not mess with the SMD components.

Click to expand...

Hi there, yes they are SMD. In fact, I have very little soldering or electronics experience at all, but I'm confident that having read many tutorials on removing SMD components (and with a bit of practice before hand), I can do an 'adequate' job. If I make an absolute mess of things during the practice runs, I'll have no trouble just dropping off the unit at my local studio repair shop and have them do the dirty work. I've yet to look at the exact dimensions within the box, but space permitting, I'll have them drop in some SMD adapters. If not, then I'll simply have them do the whole job. I'm confident though of being able to do the job myself.

living sounds said:

I know what you're talking about. When it comes to converters, there is no easy way around. At least not for a multichannel unit. 16 or more "great" sounding I/O channels are just not possible. I like my Aurora, it's good, but a big Prism or Lavry unit is still quite a bit better. But cost prohibitive, of course. It would be cheaper to get a good sounding console and a 16 track tape recorder.
I think the Aurora is the best compromise in terms of sound/performance.

Click to expand...

I do plan on some serious upgrades in the future, but it will be one step at a time. I've come to believe that intermediate buys are a waste of money, best to save and bite the bullet. I think the Taveler could be a half decent box, given a little work, which is why in the meantime I think it makes so much more sense to spendf a little time and a little cash on a mod, rather than another intermediate step up.

It's such a simple device, on the face of it, so modding doesn't seem, at least, like it's going to be a major headache. I was just hoping if anyone really experienced with these kinds of mods here could warn me of any potential pitfalls and possibly comment on how that external supply could be either a help or a hinderance, as the MOTU supply does seem to be an issue with modding these units and the of course the performance of the clock. I believe the supply is also swapped out on the BLA modded MOTUs as standard  by the way.