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SSLtech said:
I'm with Dave R. and John R. here... If people can't expect a reasonable chance of repayment, they'll stop lending. -And then you end up in the sort of mess that- ...well... -The sort of mess the economy's in right NOW, come to think of it!

Keith, the mess we are in at the moment is greatly due to the greed of banking system than people's inability to pay. It is true that the general principle rules. You honour your debt. But unfortunately at this very moment I don't feel that way against the banks. I have been trying to get a business loan secured on my building. The building is completely paid off and there are no securities what so ever over it. And the amount I am looking for is twenty percent of the value of the building. But the both banks that I bank with say no. Yet you can walk into the same banks and come out with a personal loan unsecured. It is as crazy as that. Why? Because there is more money to be made from personal loans. They prey on people's weaknesses, as they know they can juggle people from one loan to another. At this very moment my feeling is that if you owe to individuals, such as in John's case or your suppliers, honour your debt until the last drop. But if you owe to the banks and can get away without paying, don't feel bad about it.

I can not agree more with John on documenting any money that you may loan to your friends and/or even family members. Experience is talking here.
 
Cemal,

I wasn't so much thinking of the cause so much as the effect... Either way, when lenders get 'burned', they tend to shy away from making the next loan. Credit then tightens, and things slow down.

I certainly wasn't ascribing blame, rather observing the effect. The 'predatory-greed' versus 'deadbeat-scam-artist' debate is probably neither black nor white, but some mingled shade of grey.

Keith
 
JohnRoberts said:
I an not a student of FL state law, but contracted debt should depend on the contract or the deal made between the lender and borrower.

I have loaned money to individuals before and I made a point of getting a signed contract to define when I would be paid back, and what would happen in default. I don't think I would loan money to anybody in FL if my ability to collect has an expiration date.

If state law is inserting themselves between two parties in a contract, hopefully they have some good reason. There are already laws preventing usurious lending rates. I find the concept of debt having an expiration date (statute of limitations) an odd concept. Every loan I've made as a lender or borrower had penalties and balance due that increased if slow or late.

Forgiveness if you don't pay/collect in a timely fashion is a contrary incentive.

As an individual I don't borrow money that I don't plan to pay back. I suspect this fundamental behavior has been eroded somewhat by so many people who gambled on too easy to get home loans, betting that prices would appreciate and bail them out. This is not unlike all the people who bought stocks with borrowed money in the late 1920s while the stock market looked like it would go up forever.

IMO this comes down to individual responsibility. Personal bankruptcy law is liberal enough with people getting free resets, this doesn't need to be institutionalized into all lending. Doing the math on this, the unintended consequence of expanded loan forgiveness is to raise the rates that everybody else must pay to make up for the free riders.  Another sea anchor to slow economic growth.

JR


PS: This is meant as a general statement of my philosophy and not a criticism of others.

I agree and even though there are some debts that are owed to collections from YEARS ago back when I was totally irresponsible with finances there are a few personal "laws" that i'll always live by and that is to: Never borrow money from friends/family and if I had to have something financed by a creditor, i'd make sure I could pay em back but more importantly "if you dont have the money for it then YOU cant afford it!!"


Only if some of us knew what we know now ;) but then isnt that part of the transitional process of becoming a responsible adult?? (if there are even any at all from my age group/generation :-[ )
 
JohnRoberts said:
I have loaned money to individuals before and I made a point of getting a signed contract to define when I would be paid back, and what would happen in default. I don't think I would loan money to anybody in FL if my ability to collect has an expiration date.
Is that the debtor or the contract expiring, hmm, "Jonny the Vin"?

Mike

 

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