I hate woodworking.

For the life of me, I couldn't even cut a board straight and right on the line, even if using power tools like a circular saw or reciprocating saw. Measured carefully, and then cut and the cut lines are 1/8" or more off, jagged and wavering.

What's the point of doing accurate measurements if I can't cut them square and accurately anyway.

I really freaking hate woodworking. Makes a ton of mess, dust everywhere, lots of cleanup. And there's always the danger of cutting your fingers!

I've received a lot of power tools as gifts during several Father's day and Birthdays. (I never asked for any of them, they just appeared.) Some of them, still never opened, new in the box, security straps still on. Some of them I gave away to friends (miter saws, etc.) who can make better use of them. I hate looking at all these tools in my garage when I don't know squat how to use them properly, or even show one completed project using these tools.

Kudos and big respect to all  you carpenters and woodworkers out there. I don't know how you guys do it. 

I kinda like it. I can't cut a darn thing straight either or get anything good and square but wood does bow to the saw and sometimes, just sometimes, it all works out.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/332418-poor-mans-icon-big-box-bcf-bcr-2000s.html

I quite enjoy woodworking.  It's the mess it makes that bothers me.  Plus I don't really have a proper workshop as such, just an area under the house big enough for me to make said mess.

I find I can get a decent straight-ish cut using a hand saw.  Once it's done, if I need to get a perfectly square cut on the timber (say for making a butt joint in a cabinet) I'll then use a plunge router with a straight bit running along a guide made from a piece of 3mm right-angle aluminium clamped to the wood, and lined up with a try-square.  Provided I've made the initial cut relatively cleanly and close to the line the router then just cleans up the remainder of the dags and finishes it off.

I've never had much luck using a handheld circular saw for any precision work - too brutal and uncontrollable.

I prefer metalworking myself but I've found that using the tool is not as important as knowing how to use the tool to get what you want.  This include using the right blades/speeds/pressure/etc as well as using supporting devices.

To cut a straight line, you need a guide.  I don't mean a book either.  Have you noticed that on the saw there is a metal edge that sticks out?  Most saws have at least one long edge of straight material that is parallel with the blade.  USE THIS to your advantage!

Like this:

1. Measure.
2. Measure.
3. Use your ruler/straight edge and draw your cut line on the victim.
4. Now set your saw against the edge of the victim and line the blade up with the line.
5. Where the metal "foot" of the saw rests, make a small mark on the victim where the foot's edge meets the wood's edge.  Measure this distance.
6. Mark the other end of the victim and use your ruler/straight edge to mark another line, which should be parallel to the cut line.  We will call this the "guide line".
7. Find another piece of wood/metal or use your straight edge if it is thick enough and line it up on the side of the guide line away from the cut line.
8.  Use a couple C-clamps to hold that wood/metal guide along the guide line.
9.  Cut the victim using the guide instead of trying to eyeball the cut.  You'll never get a straight line if you don't use a guide.


My point is that there is always a way to do things how you want them.  Sometimes it takes the help of a simple machine but it always takes ingenuity on our part.

I've done some pretty crazy things with tools, some work out, some don't but even when they don't I learn more ways not to do things wrong.

It's all about the right tool for the job at hand. A lot of crazy things can be done with a couple of CNC routers. 

I forgot I had all of these pics. It's during the building of the new wood furniture cabinet for my desk. Maybe one of these days I'll actually get 'er done.  ???





















I couldn't get her into my space without junking the old frame and making the new one in 2 sections. It was all laminate/particle board shit anyhow. We moved her with the patchbay and harness hanging out the end like a giant tail. We lost one wire during the move. Kind of surprises me when looking back at the pics.

Cheers, Jeff

Svart, thanks for that suggestion. Makes sense.  Will try that next time.

I know what the real problem is. It's ME.
I don't have education/skills/experience with woodworking techniques and no one to learn from. 

The lack of a proper worktable is also a contributing factor to a miserable working environment, not counting on a hot, muggy garage... which just makes my temper run short. Power tools and a short temper don't make a good combination.

I really ENVY people who can make furniture/tables/knick-nacks using handtools.

Jeff, that's a pretty serious CNC for a pretty serious project. In a way using CNC for woodworking is almost like "cheating."   
But yeah, if I have a big enough CNC machine, you bet I'll be using one.

My last major woodworking project was done with the help of the canadians...

largest open span log frame building in the southwest

I pretty much built the rest of the camp as well...

jsteiger said:

It's during the building of the new wood furniture cabinet for my desk. Maybe one of these days I'll actually get 'er done.  ???

Click to expand...

Holy shit!

gustav

> straight and right on the line, even if using power tools like a circular saw or reciprocating saw.

No, you can't. Nobody can hold 1/8" with ugly tools like that.

Many circ-saber-saws come with an attachment which sticks out the side and claims to be a guide. Unless you do very narrow work, these things are more likely to catch and cock than to guide straight.

To cut a board straight, you want a TABLE SAW. Plenty big. With a fence.

There's still skill. You must hold the board into the fence with consistent pressure. You must not cut off your fingers, no matter how easy it is. So there is still some add-ons and learning-curve, feather-boards and push sticks, and knowing when and how to use them.

I can do fair work up to 2 feet on a $100 contractor table saw. Helluvalot better than anything I ever did with circ-saw or saber-saw. I've tried to saw 10-foot trim on that little table... good thing I could put the scalloped side up where the shingle-edge would hide it.

A deluxe variant is a sliding-table saw. A plain table saw with a sliding tray in guides.

Careful and experienced hand-sawing can do better than 1/8". However all saws and especially hand-saws rip-up the edge of the work. "Good" cabinet making uses saw for rough-whack and then a PLANE to bring the edge to dimension. (Most cabinet makers use power saws: a bazillion well-guided teeny rips looks "smooth", a fake you can't approach with a handsaw.)

Can you even buy a good plane any more? I don't mean those little scrub-planes still sold for door-shaving. I have my father-in-law's 16" iron plane, and even this is too small for long runs. There are 4-foot and 6-foot wood planes, but now only seen in antique stores in poor working order.

"Gift" tools are, well, it's the thought that counts. If you want good woodworking tools, you'll pick them yourself. Maybe the $1,300 table saw. Maybe the $7 chisel. The right $7 tool beats heck out of the wrong $99 gift-tool.

Plan all your work around Standard Sizes. A lot of my projects are multiples of 3.5 inches.

Any good lumber yard (and most Home Depots) will do some cutting for you. It's not free, but for small-project craftwork, it is a lot cheaper than buying a decent table saw. They grump at complicated layouts; try to have your Critical Dimensions done in one setup, say front and back panel the same width; then you only have your home-sawn length-errors to hide.

And you SHOULD have a comfortable work area.

Me, I've given up anything which can't be done with a chain-saw. (And having focused my attention, and set up a nice chainsaw area, I find I can do pretty good cuts when I want to.)

My Father was a Carpenter by trade before joining the RAF at the start of WW II
I'd love to say that I inherited ALL his skills but I didn't :-(
However he showed my how to "saw" properly so I can cut a pretty straight line, most of
that is the way you hold the saw and the arm movement/angle of the cutting motion.

I've made pretty decent "built in" cupboards and a Bathroom sink surround but I had the MDF for
my 2 x 6 foot rack units cut at the local DIY outlet.
Even then the units are not perfectly "square" !!

MM.

also check these Japanese handsaws. After a lot of hoopla I decided to buy two of 'm and they work like a charm!

link

I used to feel the same way about wood and also about metal. I can only say this. I have changed my tune but it took having the right tools along side patience and practice. 

A good carpenter taught me a few things about using a circular saw correctly.
-A good blade is a must, less teeth means a rougher cut. He always used a blade with 40 teeth for every cut.
-He first would line up the saw while it was running and plunge it down into the wood instead of taking basically a wild guess as you would if you tried to line up the saw off the wood.
-Second he said the saw wants to cut perfectly straight on its own. Its your own hand and arm movements that cause a crooked cut. He always said to just gently push the saw across the wood, not force it along your line.
These tips and some practice and its possible you too could cut like a pro.
I find safety goggles also enable you to see your line better while cutting. I will actually wear them if I need to cut something exactly straight. For getting things cut really straight it helps to take your time while cutting also.

Eye protection...good point. I never work without it.

Ear protection is an absolute must when using any of the saws mentioned here. You will end up with permanent damage in the 4K region if not careful.

Cutting a straight line with a circular saw is not a big deal. Like anything, practice, practice and practice. Clamping a straight edge for a guide is a great and wonderful trick for near perfect rips. I think a few jigs like this can be found at the Depot now days. A table saw is a great help if you have the space and the need more than once or twice. These are a little expensive, but well worth the price of a finger or more. http://www.sawstop.com/ We bought one a few years ago and it has been great. Haven't found out if it really works. Hopefully we never have to.

Cutting a straight line with a jig saw or recip/sawz-all is not to easy. Can be done but only for a short distance. For the sawz-all, you can nail or screw a wooden block to be used for a guide to run the blade against. For all practice purposes, the sawz-all is better know as the fvck-up saw. Mostly used to fix shit or aid in ripping shit apart. 

Depending upon if the edge you are cutting is visible or not, you can use a few other tricks. If it will not be seen, cut it close as you can to the line, then use a 4" grinder with a 40 or 80 grit disc on it to "bring it" to your line. I always thought a grinder was a metal working tool until I put a 40 grit disc on one. Indispensable woodworking tool IMHO.

Embrace it...don't hate it.  ;D

Jeff

Man, this board is full of experiences. Thumbs up to all the tips. I appreciate it. 

Yeah, safety goggles is a must. I have 5 or 6 laying around near various eqpt. (CNC, drill press, workbench, upstairs) so I don't have any excuse not to wear them (was also trying out different kinds to see which don't fog up).

I guess woodworking just like soldering, takes practice and more practice to do a decent job. I'll keep at it.

You will know the right tool for the job, when you use the right tool.

Straight & accurate edges....if it's not your table saw....how do you know it is squared up/tuned correctly ?
Did someone use it yesterday, adjust it for a 11.25 degree bevel to cut that piece of 2" thick walnut ??

Super accurate table saw cuts need the fence side edge of your stock squared-up on an edge-planer before tiptoeing over to the table saw.

But that might be overkill for our purposes.
The best way I have found, is to either...
...learn how to check-and-adjust saws for accuracy...or.....
....for edge (miter) cuts, using an accurate angle square, draw the angle on the wood....cut the wood 1/8 too long on any kind of saw...use a squared-up bench mounted disc sander...and gently sand up to your mark. This eliminates any tear-out, and gives a sweet gluing edge. My friend has all the big tools, but still uses this method for furniture-grade cuts.

=fb=

Another trick I've learned and now practice is that I don't use the degree ticks on the saws I have(radial arm/circular/jigsaw/reciprocating/table).  I have a couple squares and a gravity operated angle finder that I use to "calibrate" my saws.  I find that the angle ticks on most saws are close but not perfectly accurate and once you do a long cut you can be off a lot more than you expect.  I also do my measurements and mark the cut line on everything I cut no matter how accurate I think the saw will be.  That way I can see if I'm going off course before I complete the cut.

As far as the edges being torn up like PRR said, some woods have grains, especially something like oak or birch veneers that have been laminated to plywood to give it a nice face texture.  I generally try to cut WITH the grain on these but if you must cut against it, there are general rules that I follow.  I generally use a fine, carbide or tungsten tooth saw blade but I make sure it is SHARP(those "plywood" blades are crap for a good cut).  Quality matters here!  once you make your cut line, sometimes you can wet the surface to keep it from fracturing badly as you cut but mostly the cut speed can make a huge difference here.  Cut slowly and let the blade do the work.  A lot of people tend to push the wood into the blade as hard as they can and this can cause the dig the wood instead of chipping it.  Practice this and you'll find a pressure that pushes the wood into the blade but the blade is able to cut easily.

Another trick is to find a blade that has a curved tooth.  It has a much easier time slicing the wood since you aren't scraping the wood like a flat tooth tends to do.  These cost a lot more but will last longer and give nicer cuts too.


I tend to find that the Diablo brand blades work pretty well for general purpose blades.

> Japanese handsaws. ... work like a charm!

There's a lot of crappy "Japanese Saws" on the US market. I have several which are good only for whacking PVC pipe and small dead branches. There are some very good ones at VERY high prices. I'm sure there is something in between, but maybe not imported here.

> he said the saw wants to cut perfectly straight on its own.

Some do. Many don't. (Yeah, a circ-saw's trailing edge prevents sharp turns, but does not prevent gentle drift.)

And quite right that Operator Swerve causes much error. Golf clubs swing straight, but put one in -my- hands, it won't. It takes skill to let the saw run straight. What, ME do that? No way. I know what a spaz I am.

> woodworking just like soldering, takes practice and more practice to do a decent job.

A classic apprenticeship is up to 7 years doing all the hard rough work around the woodshop. Everything the apprentice does would be finished or touched by a Master before anybody else sees it. You done, what? 10 cuts? 100 cuts? That's like your first day of apprenticeship in a busy woodshop. You aren't expected to get it right.

Power tools take some of the work and skill out of the job. It is a LOT of work to set-up a machine just-right, but then you can use $1/day labor to push wood through. but when things go wrong, a power tool goes more wrong more quickly.

CAM is the next step. The CAM-machine setup is massive. I helped bring an old CAM back to life, and watched the first cut, a lot of complex shapes in a 4x8 sheet. The dude was stopping every foot to study problems. Cut too deep, too shallow, running off the table, work flopping around.... Murphy's Law Party! The sheet was ruined, but he ran the whole job to see what else would go wrong. All fixable, some as numbers in software, perhaps easier than shimming a tablesaw. After considerable machine set-up, he can then drop very complicated -different- shapes into the CAM and knock them out bam-bam-bang. My grandpaw could have done that one shape on classic power machines faster, but he'd set-up again for each different shape. If you need a thousand all the same, grandpaw had the edge; a thousand all different, the CAM has 1/10th the job setup time.

Waste wood! Do lots of trial cuts. If you need a 14" board, run a cut at 14.5" and see how you could do better. Unless the table and fence are very good, most power-saw cuts start a little over from the line, then you check and sneak it in. (Some now have laser-pointers which are supposed to start you without flipping to check.... one more thing to go out of line.)

owel said:

I really freaking hate woodworking.

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Try this

http://www.robotica.co.uk/ozturk/architectural/great_hall.htm

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

With finished plywood  if you score your cut line with a utility knife and then make your cut just a hair to the strong side you have a good shot at reducing  tear out . Sand the slight edge a bit .
Use a good straight edge .
Its tough to rip 4x8 sheets on a small table saw , but I do it all the time .
Make sure your helper dosen't pull !