Neve 1084 PCBs and other stuff

Hi,

Me and my friend are contemplating to build a few DIY Neve 1084s and while we found some threads here with info about people that tried to make them, we didn't find anyone (at first glance) pushing this project forward, printing PCBs, layouts and other stuff (that other projects like the 1176 and GSSL enjoy).

So, a short question: does anyone here have or could have 1084 PCBs for purchase or maybe has files for us to make a low-volume batch of? Some kind of consolidated BOMs and similar project files would be extra nice as well.

Thanks everyone.

A possible alternative is to see if someone happens to have some ACMP-84's preamps for sale, from the TNC-groupbuy.
You'd still could have some DIY-fun, since repairs/corrections are required...

Post a Wanted add in the black market for the PCB's, they pop up ever now and then. Your only about 18 months too late for that batch.

I do know a couple people have talked about an project that was easy to source and took care of the switches issue but that hasn't happened yet. I will eventually work on a solution for the switches, as that's a holdup for many but I'm trying to complete some of my projects and use them at the moment.

That is a hefty project, as I have mine in mid project. It may not be for the first timer, and you may want some other projects under the belt first.

Kaz

I've been waiting for a decently documented 1073/1084 project for a while now. No luck yet

Thank you for the answers everyone.

This would be a first project for me, but not for the tech guy I would work with - he did a GSSL and a few ax84 tube amp projects I think and he deems (from the schematics) that it would be hard but doable. Definitely a challenge and I love challenges. He would show me how to solder one complete channel and I'd do the other one under close supervision.

I'll post the WTB thread in the black market, but seriously, I think this is the coolest setup you can have for tracking (ok, maybe just for me) and it's a legendary piece of gear when done right. If there would be more people interested, why wouldn't we just make another batch? Who designed the first batch? Just out of curiosity, how many people would have to gather to make a batch viable, is this in 10ths, 100ths of channels?

Interesting thread.  I've been thinking about doing this myself for a few months.  I'm pretty busy at the moment, but want to build a few of these in the not-too-distant future.

I actually have a pair of Neve 1084's that'd I'd love to clone and then sell (the originals, not the clones.... I saw an original pair of 1084's go for $10k recently!).  My idea of a clone, however, would be a consolidation of at least some of the pcb's, however, so there would be fewer pcb's total in the project, and therefore less hand wiring.  Not the approach for the 'purist' of course, but in practice should be far more than satisfying.

The wiring bundles in it annoy me, along with all the edge connectors and connector-mounted components. Makes more sense to me to put more than one of the circuits in the thing onto a single board along with supporting circuitry and make 1 or 2 pcbs max for the whole circuit.  It could use separate switches and pots for the controls too, instead of expensive (and tight) dual-concentric controls.  Lorlins and Alphas would be perfect, keeping the build simple and the costs lower.

Would still need the Elmas for the gain switches.

I'd be happy to do this (or at least assist if someone else wants to be point man).  If it could be done gradually, say over the next several months (at least by the end of the year) then I can do it.

I'm very comfortable with Neve circuits, what to do and not do, but I have no desire to do all the hand wiring traditionally associated with the 1084 (or the other class-A pre/eq modules).  

Thoughts?

JC

JC - you're echoing my thoughts exactly. I for one don't need seperate cards for each function as it is with the original, neither am I romantically attached to dual-concentric pots or the hand wiring. I'd like to get close to the sound and wouldn't like to skimp on the features side - meaning I'd like to keep both filters, shelves and the mid band. In fact, if we get away from the "neve look" it's a bonus in my book, as I'd hate to misguide people that I record with into thinking I have an original neve or something.

So yes, to me the consolidated PCB sounds great - probably this would be one PCB for the channel with transformers and power supply mounted elsewhere else, like the 8 channel 1290 project we saw here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22828.

If someone wishes to take this over and design consolidated PCBs (or assist / proofread), this is surely a very interesting project with possibly quite a few of us eager to make some channels - it is one of the ultimate gear pieces of its day and age after all. The alternative, to just re-do the original PCBs is a bit less interesting, but that would work as well if there are interested parties out there.

rascalseven said:

Interesting thread.  I've been thinking about doing this myself for a few months.  I'm pretty busy at the moment, but want to build a few of these in the not-too-distant future.

I actually have a pair of Neve 1084's that'd I'd love to clone and then sell (the originals, not the clones.... I saw an original pair of 1084's go for $10k recently!).  My idea of a clone, however, would be a consolidation of at least some of the pcb's, however, so there would be fewer pcb's total in the project, and therefore less hand wiring.  Not the approach for the 'purist' of course, but in practice should be far more than satisfying.

The wiring bundles in it annoy me, along with all the edge connectors and connector-mounted components. Makes more sense to me to put more than one of the circuits in the thing onto a single board along with supporting circuitry and make 1 or 2 pcbs max for the whole circuit.  It could use separate switches and pots for the controls too, instead of expensive (and tight) dual-concentric controls.  Lorlins and Alphas would be perfect, keeping the build simple and the costs lower.

Would still need the Elmas for the gain switches.

I'd be happy to do this (or at least assist if someone else wants to be point man).  If it could be done gradually, say over the next several months (at least by the end of the year) then I can do it.

I'm very comfortable with Neve circuits, what to do and not do, but I have no desire to do all the hand wiring traditionally associated with the 1084 (or the other class-A pre/eq modules).  

Thoughts?

JC

Click to expand...

YES!!!! couldn't agree with you more. no sense in going through all that crap if it isn't really going to have an impact on the sound. Instead of all that we could go out of out way and us original components like i/o transformers, etc.

A simple 1RU would be perfect. We could (and perhaps should) reference Chandler's LTD-1 since it is heavily based on the 1073 and sounds just like it. They too did not focus on complicated things like dual-concentric switches and they ended up with a great sounding unit.

Check out: http://www.chandlerlimited.com/products/ltd1.php

I think it would be very useful to see inside this box! I've used it a couple of times and it feels like they didn't use lorlins, but we could!

PS: most of the complicated design in the 1073/1084/etc. is a result of having to fit a high quality discrete class a mic pre and eq in a rather tight module (just like api modules.... 550s.... a nightmare!!!!). we don't have to do this. we could have 1 or even 2 rack spaces (and deep ones) to work with. resistors could be spaced an inch apart! like in old-school 1176's.

PPS: we already have a great 1290 (1073/1084 mic pre) design and board from Martin Adriannse. So we could potentially team up with him and incorporate that into these boards. I'm building 8 of these and I've A/B'd them with originals. They sound fantastic!

Sounds great, though I would base it off of the 1084 and use the LTD as an engineering inspiration - a 99% sound wise genuine 1084 article with more modern approach if you will (it helps JC with his plans as well I presume). Also, I'd like to see the project limited to a 1U case, simply because I'd like to lug these around and maybe build myself 8 of them for that reason at some point. Other than that, I think this thread is going in the right direction. Maybe it's time to move this to the drawing board, call it a project and start discussing some specifics?

If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Chandler LTD-1 is hand wired in much the same way as an original Neve module -- individual circuit cards for each area of the overall circuit with edge connectors and lots of wire.  That's what I want to avoid.  Hats off to Wade for going through the effort, however!

I think maybe something like the Vintech X-series is more like it (one large pcb inside).  I've peeked inside several different Vintech units (and their power supply, one of which I have powering my Neve modules).

I'll open one of mine and start looking at how to consolidate the various cards into one pcb.

JC

Good thoughts. I've been toying with the idea of doing this as it seems like the next logical step up from doing a mic-pre and line-in module, but I've held back for a few reasons:

1. I'm not sure it's "necessary" to do this with an excellent EQ like the S800 already in circulation.
2. Cost; even with PCB mount switches, the cost of switches and inductors makes this a fairly pricey build compared to the S800. There seems to be far more value innovation in using EZ1290+S800.
3. forum member Bluzzi's been working on this and seems to have made good progress - I don't want to step into his territory. He's sent me a preview of what he has and it looks impressive.

However, I am interested in this project, and have made point P and L (where eq's inserted) "easily accessible" on the EZ1290.

Best,

m.

cool project

Oops, my bad for inferring that the LTD-1 is consolidated as a single PCB.

I didn't know S800 existed, but it doesn't have much in the way of filters, does it?

Anyways it would be cool if Bluzzi would chime in as well on his progress

Is the S800 a Calrec EQ? If it is, I'm sure it's great, but I'm pretty sure it's going to sound very different when compared to a 1073/1084. I see ICs in the support thread! I was really betting the LTD-1 would have one board! Oh well, we could still reference it and just consolidate the boards and wires into one. One thing I wouldn't do is reference Vintech 

I'm pretty sure it would be an expensive build, but aren't all these builds rather expensive? (PM660, 33609, etc.). There must be a sensible workaround with the inductors.

DP.

Hi guys, yes I've been working on this project for quite some time. However I am working on a line in only version. Martin's EZ1290 takes care of the preamp side and if you don't have one he may make available a mating pcb to include the missing part of my 1084. The holdup right now is the prototype stage as right now time and $ has to be diverted elsewhere. I've worked out the BOM, PCB layout with options to exclude/include Low Pass Filter and hard bypass. The PCB is quite large! I am also looking at getting the front panels made as my design incorporates PCB mounted switches and pots and if the panel isn't exact one risks having problems. The parts for this project are not cheap with the XFRs and Inductors as well as switches being the big $ items.
Its also not a purist clone. Although I stick to the original schematic religiously the parts will be up to you , although I am mostly using Wima caps for ease of build. This was my first rule, to make a 1084 PCB and BOM that a beginner with minimal but adequate soldering skills can build.

I don't want this to become another 1081 project (no disrespect meant but I don't see too many headache free 1081 projects) where it takes years to gather parts and make corrections. Although the idea came to me and was discussed here a while ago I only was able to start on this seriously about 6 months ago. I'm not fast but I want it to be perfect so if you can wait a bit I think it will be worth it.

I didn't read the entire thread yet as I have to go for now but the plan is to make the boards available but only after a 100% successful prototype. I think you will love this PCB if a 1084 is what you seek.

In the meantime if you are looking at doing a 1084 you can always do home etched pcb of the original layouts. All single sided.

I'll be back here shortly so if you have any comments I'd love to hear them.

Cheers.

Jim

Cool Bluzzi! I'm not sure if I fully understand. You said you'd be doing a line-in version. Would that mean all you'd have to do is take one of Martin's mic pre boards and attach the line out from that to the mic pre in? Couldn't we even have some boards made like that (if there was enough interest)?

DP.

If it's a line level version, it probably still is mated with a transformer on the input and output, so you couldn't just bash the 2 PCBs together (as far as I understand) economically because you'd use 4 transformers.

I propose we work together and make an extension to the EZ1290 that's basically a bypassable 1084 EQ. Since both (afaik) use PCB mounted switches or pots, a common panel layout would have to be worked out together with assuring that both PCBs fit one alongside the other.

Regarding options and methodology for this project, I think Jim nailed it with making the low pass and bypass optional and making sure it works on a prototype level before it goes "to print". If I understand correctly however, Jim, you'll make a line in version and check that - would it change your plans much if you made the prototype as an EZ1290 extension?

An eq section that inserts into the EZ1290 circuit would still leave us without the Neve-style line input, no?  One could use a pad in front of the mic input, but that's a different circuit no doubt with a different character.

Honestly, being an owner and user of 1084's, I really don't reach for them much as line-level devices, as I find the eq somewhat limited for general application.  Killer on drums (IMO), but pretty edgy stuff for general use.  They'd mellow out and probably become a bit more broadly useful if I swapped the tants for good electros and perhaps used more modern actives, but I like the edgy thing they do, just not on too many things.

Sooooo... I'm not too concerned about a line input, though I doubt I'm in the majority on that opinion.  Most folks would probably like to at least have the option (I'm guessing), and therefore a simple eq section for the EZ1290 might not be the complete solution, at least not if folks want the true Neve line input circuit.

Of course I've only skimmed over the EZ1290 project, so I could be missing something regarding the addition of a line input.

JC

For me, the lack of a true line input is not important or relevant to the applications I would mostly use the 1084 for. I can assume some people would like the option, though, but well... As was already raised in this thread, that S800 would probably be, well, more appropriate for general application, and that's why it is a line level box. But, then again, there's this certain something that those inductors and transformers do that some of us like on some stuff (like drums!!).

Wait theres something you're missing Rascalseven.
Bluzzi didnt gave enough details and i respect that!
But his Neve EQ project its a line in transformer in an out EQ....wich easily adapt the 1290 to make a Mic pre/line in EQ.

On the other hand i find a mic pre with EQ useless while tracking....i'll keep the EQ for later on mix...as a line in EQ.